gamejournopro-esque skype group chat log leaked, reveals collaboration between game journalists.
204 replies, posted
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;50981326]I contribute GG to the rise of the alt-right, which has since led to Milo being heralded as the leader of free speech on Twitter, and to some extent, [b]getting Donald Trump getting as far as he has.[/b][/QUOTE]
What the fuck are you smoking?
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;50981326]Milo and Breitbart was the tipping point of GG for me. People were so accepting of an opportunistic right-winger, that the movement had begun to lose its original purpose. It's now become a battle of SJWs vs Anti-SJWs and both sides are equally as loud and terrible as the other. I contribute GG to the rise of the alt-right, which has since led to Milo being heralded as the leader of free speech on Twitter, and to some extent, getting Donald Trump getting as far as he has.[/QUOTE]
No one accepted them, on at least two major occasions people were tearing Milo apart for about a week each because he did stupid shit. They were just convenient because they didn't spew complete bullshit about GamerGate. GamerGate never gave a shit about alt-right crap, they mocked that shit. As far as, "Anti-SJW," stuff goes that was basically because the entire opposition was compromised of people who pushed that as a defense and push those talking points and used that shit as the excuse for censoring the industry.
The GG thread seemed at least 50/50 on him for a while, and our thread was probably more level-headed than most places on the web.
[QUOTE=Mingebox;50981372]The GG thread seemed at least 50/50 on him for a while, and our thread was probably more level-headed than most places on the web.[/QUOTE]
The thread more debated about whether or not he should be acknowledged at all. Like there were plenty of occasions people didn't want anything from him brought up whatsoever.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50981336]Not even remotely.
I can't even fucking tell you the number of people who hate Milo under the GG banner.
The alt right usurped a movement after the narrative was "THIS MOVEMENT IS FULL OF STUPID ALT RIGHT PEOPLE" coming from the journalists. Lo-and-behold, they were true to their word because they controlled the narrative.[/QUOTE]
Things must have changed since then, because I remember getting lots of dumbs for challenging Milo
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;50981388]Things must have changed since then, because I remember getting lots of dumbs for challenging Milo[/QUOTE]
I've honestly not seen a lot of people like Milo. Ever.
I feel like if you're looking for the alt right boogeyman that you want, you're going to find him.
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;50981388]Things must have changed since then, because I remember getting lots of dumbs for challenging Milo[/QUOTE]
You got dumbs for other reasons.
[QUOTE=Wii60;50980314]never felt so validated in my life when it comes to calling shit out
also
[media]https://twitter.com/BroTeamPill/status/771041153412194304[/media][/QUOTE]
I thought they'd only have that in a message to him, but it actually says so on the video: [media]https://twitter.com/StinyGoat/status/771040494470197248[/media]
(In Germany it says 'Dieses Video wurde entfernt, weil es gegen die YouTube-Richtlinie zum Verbot von Hassrede verstößt. Erfahre mehr über die Bekämpfung von Hassrede in Deinem Land.', so here it says it's 'hate speech'.)
[editline]1st September 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Teddybeer;50980368][quote][...]Serious chat (short)
Pastebin: [url]http://pastebin.com/emCc8aDN[/url]
Archive: [url]http://archive.is/kqGOm[/url]
Serious chat (long)
Pastebin: [url]http://pastebin.com/8uRrd3EY[/url]
Archive: [url]http://archive.is/3J6Dg[/url]
[...][/quote][/QUOTE]
That leaked too? I'm pretty sure they mentioned somewhere in the other logs that this would be really bad for them.
Man, what the fuck do these guys have against Totalbiscuit?
[QUOTE=IKTM;50981493]Man, what the fuck do these guys have against Totalbiscuit?[/QUOTE]
He publicly advocates for consumer-friendly ethics in reporting. I don't think there was ever any other issue.
[URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/4zt1q2/from_the_con_leak_logs_unveil_more_insane_claims/d6yq23b"]He even defended some of them (more than) once, but as it turns out that was in part because they lied to him and he probably wouldn't have done it the same way had he had all the information[/URL][URL="https://archive.is/4yTfs"].[/URL]
[editline]edit[/editline] Technically he advocates for more consumer-friendly practices in a lot of regards in and around the games industry, but I don't think too much of the rest is relevant in this particular situation.
It's been years and I still have no idea what gamergate is exactly or what pro-GG and anti-GG means or who's on second or anything
[QUOTE=Paramud;50981593]It's been years and I still have no idea what gamergate is exactly or what pro-GG and anti-GG means or who's on second or anything[/QUOTE]
Initially it was consumers fed up with "journalists" colluding with developers, confirming long-held suspicions about conflict of interest between both parties and revealing, particularly in the indie games scene, the existence of cliques who decide what games to cover and how to cover them in return for favors or outright money. Left-leaning individuals and sites initially portrayed it as an attack against women in games (see: the hideously revisionist Wikipedia article for that narrative) while right-leaning sources tried their best to cover it but it eventually became a sort of ideological war between conservatives and the alt right, some of whom genuinely cared about gaming while others saw an opportunity to expand their brand. In reality it was about standards and people who play video games not wanting to feel like they are lied to.
Essentially, being pro-gamergate means simply not agreeing with the idea that people who cover games in media should be in incestuous relationships with the people who make those games, while being anti-GG is the reaction towards the idea that gamergate itself is anti-women in games, which simply isn't the case. I was gone for a year so someone correct me if I'm wrong.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50981404]I've honestly not seen a lot of people like Milo. Ever.
I feel like if you're looking for the alt right boogeyman that you want, you're going to find him.[/QUOTE]
It's hard to look through Facepunch's history dating back that far but just check r/KIA and you will see near unanimous praise and approval of Milo. What we are starting to experience now (by now I mean for several months) is that with less reliance on him as a megaphone to get gamergates message out less people feel the need to go up to bat for him and his baggage becomes heavier, so it's easier to just say that no one really liked him.
[QUOTE=Paramud;50981593]It's been years and I still have no idea what gamergate is exactly or what pro-GG and anti-GG means or who's on second or anything[/QUOTE]
Like BlackLivesMatter or OccupyWallstreet, both the GamerGate movement and the reactionary Anti-GamerGate movement are faceless, leader-less groups whose only real association is sharing a label which they use to identify themselves.
The idea of these leader-less groups is that it is supposedly more fair and democratic to not have anyone representing anyone else, but it always leads to the problem that just about anyone can say they are a member of that group and say or do whatever they want and be seen as representing it. This means that the actual perceived work done by the group need not have any relation to its initial stated goal as multiple people within the group can have different ideas of what the group is about. Infighting is also rampant within these types of movements as those differing ideas become opposed to each other. In this light, it's somewhat inevitable that these groups always get hijacked by political radicals due to the nature of echo chambers of similar thoughts and opinions on the internet.
GamerGate was originally conceived as a consumer-oriented campaign to improve standards of reporting and ethical conduct in online news media but overtime it got taken over by the alt-right people complaining about liberal bias, "Social Justice Warriors" and political correctness in the media.
Anti-GamerGate was originally conceived as a campaign to encourage more gender/racial diversity in video games and online news media, but overtime it got taken over by a crowd of people who believe that anyone who plays video games is sexist/misogynistic and that the barrier to social progress is this constructed strawman of a 'gamer' identity which is the cause of all the pain and misery in the world.
Here's a more comprehensive video on the topic, if you have the time:
[video=youtube;boX4rMK53vc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boX4rMK53vc[/video]
[QUOTE=Raidyr;50981646]Initially it was consumers fed up with "journalists" colluding with developers, confirming long-held suspicions about conflict of interest between both parties and revealing, particularly in the indie games scene, the existence of cliques who decide what games to cover and how to cover them in return for favors or outright money. Left-leaning individuals and sites initially portrayed it as an attack against women in games (see: the hideously revisionist Wikipedia article for that narrative) while right-leaning sources tried their best to cover it but it eventually became a sort of ideological war between conservatives and the alt right, some of whom genuinely cared about gaming while others saw an opportunity to expand their brand. In reality it was about standards and people who play video games not wanting to feel like they are lied to.
Essentially, being pro-gamergate means simply not agreeing with the idea that people who cover games in media should be in incestuous relationships with the people who make those games, while being anti-GG is the reaction towards the idea that gamergate itself is anti-women in games, which simply isn't the case. I was gone for a year so someone correct me if I'm wrong.
It's hard to look through Facepunch's history dating back that far but just check r/KIA and you will see near unanimous praise and approval of Milo. What we are starting to experience now (by now I mean for several months) is that with less reliance on him as a megaphone to get gamergates message out less people feel the need to go up to bat for him and his baggage becomes heavier, so it's easier to just say that no one really liked him.[/QUOTE]
I never liked him, never understood why anyone liked him, and never wanted him around.
I can't control that about the movement but I honestly don't recall a huge following of Milo
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50981695]I never liked him, never understood why anyone liked him, and never wanted him around.
I can't control that about the movement but I honestly don't recall a huge following of Milo[/QUOTE]
He wasn't very popular in the facepunch thread because it is mostly made up of more moderate people who are self-aware enough to not become a complete echo chamber. On other sites, like reddit or 8chan, Milo was and continues to be very popular because he "tells it how it is" and "puts the SJWs in their place".
[QUOTE=Tamschi;50981547]He publicly advocates for consumer-friendly ethics in reporting. I don't think there was ever any other issue.
[URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/4zt1q2/from_the_con_leak_logs_unveil_more_insane_claims/d6yq23b"]He even defended some of them (more than) once, but as it turns out that was in part because they lied to him and he probably wouldn't have done it the same way had he had all the information[/URL][URL="https://archive.is/4yTfs"].[/URL][/QUOTE]
I hope on sheer principle of morality and the golden rule of 'treat others as you wish to be treated' that everyone finally sees through Zoe's shit and do something about this. TotalBiscuit had fucking immense amounts of stress amidst his battle with cancer from death threats, people telling him they were going to come to his address and murder his wife and child, [i]over passive commentary about GamerGate.[/i]
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50981695]I never liked him, never understood why anyone liked him, and never wanted him around.
I can't control that about the movement but I honestly don't recall a huge following of Milo[/QUOTE]
Pretty much every major GG site on the internet has turned into an alt-right cesspool, largely because of the widespread near-worship of Milo during Gamergate.
[URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/3sc0dv/yale_girl_who_screamed_at_professor_who_the_fuck/"]This[/URL] is the third most upvoted link [i]of all time[/i] on KIA. It has absolutely nothing to do with journalism, or ethics, or gaming, or [i]literally anything related to Gamergate[/i]. It's just ranting about SJWs and how bad political correctness is.
I'm trying to dig up shit from like 3 years ago about how much people loved Milo in relation to Gamergate. When he got banned on Twitter a while back, KIA had [URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/4o7r1v/milo_just_got_banned_from_twitter/"]this post[/URL] with comments about how "gay men are at the bottom of the progressive stack."
Or you can just skim his [URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2sbw6j/im_milo_and_this_is_my_gamergate_book_ama/"]AMA[/URL] and see people bending over backwards for the guy. It's changing now, because he's a mainline Trump guy and people are realizing his publication (and his personality) are equally as toxic as Gawker, but he was [i]loved[/i] for "shining a light" on Gamergate.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;50981780]Pretty much every major GG site on the internet has turned into an alt-right cesspool, largely because of the widespread near-worship of Milo during Gamergate.
[URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/3sc0dv/yale_girl_who_screamed_at_professor_who_the_fuck/"]This[/URL] is the third most upvoted link [i]of all time[/i] on KIA. It has absolutely nothing to do with journalism, or ethics, or gaming, or [i]literally anything related to Gamergate[/i]. It's just ranting about SJWs and how bad political correctness is.
I'm trying to dig up shit from like 3 years ago about how much people loved Milo in relation to Gamergate. When he got banned on Twitter a while back, KIA had [URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/4o7r1v/milo_just_got_banned_from_twitter/"]this post[/URL] with comments about how "gay men are at the bottom of the progressive stack."
Or you can just skim his [URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2sbw6j/im_milo_and_this_is_my_gamergate_book_ama/"]AMA[/URL] and see people bending over backwards for the guy. It's changing now, because he's a mainline Trump guy and people are realizing his publication (and his personality) are equally as toxic as Gawker, but he was [i]loved[/i] for "shining a light" on Gamergate.[/QUOTE]
Iirc he was the only journalist giving GG a fair shake. So for that, he got a lot of acclaim. I don't know how strong that is because I never use Reddit
What I am seeing a lot of in this thread are people going "Gamergate started with good intentions but" from people that I'm pretty sure were saying "Gamergate is just a hate campaign" from day one.
I have been following this from 2 days in, if you think KIA became some sort of Alt-right haven then I honestly don't know what to say to you. The reason why you find some "unrelated" topics in there is because it's banned off every other subreddit.
This shit is pretty frustrating. I supported GG from the beginning, as an aspiring game developer, it seemed relevant to me that what I make gets a fair shot at coverage. Then I kinda stopped paying attention to it later. And they just get away with it, and now the Intel 300 million dollar thing, speaking in front of the UN, etc. And as an upper-middle class white guy, I feel like even trying to say anything about it isn't worth it, because I'd just get lumped in as a Trump supporting conspiracy nut. They'll point to a one off report in the main-stream media, or some of the sources from the wikipedia article that reach pretty questionable conclusions through twitter statistics analysis.
[QUOTE=Thlis;50981866]What I am seeing a lot of in this thread are people going "Gamergate started with good intentions but" from people that I'm pretty sure were saying "Gamergate is just a hate campaign" from day one.
I have been following this from 2 days in, if you think KIA became some sort of Alt-right haven then I honestly don't know what to say to you. The reason why you find some topics in there is because it's banned off every other subreddit.[/QUOTE]Yep, basically that. Cough-Isak-Cough.
[QUOTE=Thlis;50Y981866]What I am seeing a lot of in this thread are people going "Gamergate started with good intentions but" from people that I'm pretty sure were saying "Gamergate is just a hate campaign" from day one.[/QUOTE]
You say it like people coming around to your point of view was a bad thing :v:
[QUOTE=Thlis;50981866]I have been following this from 2 days in, if you think KIA became some sort of Alt-right haven then I honestly don't know what to say to you. The reason why you find some "unrelated" topics in there is because it's banned off every other subreddit.[/QUOTE]
I just think that most video gamers can see the meat and potatoes aspect of gamergate and be like "Yeah that is pretty fucked up", the problem is that for every thread about ethics in video game journalism there are 2 or 3 more "SJW's, mirite guys?".
Personally I just really don't like opportunists who's enjoyment of video games is either non-existent or a backseat to pushing a political agenda, and I see a lot of people doing that in pro-GG communities.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;50981904]Yep, basically that. Cough-Isak-Cough.[/QUOTE]
You're assuming that my support for Gamergate's core ideas aren't genuine because of my political beliefs. You're saying "you aren't alt-right, so you can't really be a supporter."
Good job [I]fulfilling the exact complaints I made above[/I]. Journalistic ethics is not a political issue. I've supported Gamergate since I noticed it as an issue, and if I could go back far enough in my Facepunch posts, I'd show you that.
[editline]31st August 2016[/editline]
I mean, fuck, here I am supporting and defending a movement that is widely called a [i]hate movement[/i] among my political peers and you're criticizing me for it because I hold other political beliefs that "don't mesh" with... journalistic integrity? Really? Do you not see the problem?
[QUOTE=Raidyr;50981922]You say it like people coming around to your point of view was a bad thing :v:
.[/QUOTE]
It feels more like a subversive statement rather than an acknowledgement of misunderstanding it originally.
I am not targeting .Isak. or anyone specifically, because I have the memory of a goldfish paired with this being about arguments made +2 years ago.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;50981923]You're assuming that my support for Gamergate's core ideas aren't genuine because of my political beliefs. You're saying "you aren't alt-right, so you can't really be a supporter."
Good job [I]fulfilling the exact complaints I made above[/I]. Journalistic ethics is not a political issue. I've supported Gamergate since I noticed it as an issue, and if I could go back far enough in my Facepunch posts, I'd show you that.
[editline]31st August 2016[/editline]
I mean, fuck, here I am supporting and defending a movement that is widely called a [i]hate movement[/i] among my political peers and you're criticizing me for it because I hold other political beliefs that "don't mesh" with... journalistic integrity? Really? Do you not see the problem?[/QUOTE]
Since fucking when was Zedacon an alt right poster?
That's
what?
Stop it
[QUOTE=.Isak.;50981923]You're assuming that my support for Gamergate's core ideas aren't genuine because of my political beliefs. You're saying "you aren't alt-right, so you can't really be a supporter."[/QUOTE]
Nobody implied that so good job.
[wrong thread, damn comcast]
[QUOTE=.Isak.;50981780]Pretty much every major GG site on the internet has turned into an alt-right cesspool, largely because of the widespread near-worship of Milo during Gamergate.[/QUOTE]
Not exactly. 8chan failed because gamergate fatigue combined with the site's massive technical issues drove away large numbers of the people that came in September/October 2014, while a huge wave of /pol/lacks were migrating from 4chan to 8chan around the same time. This caused a domino effect that reached KIA, Twitter, and while not directly responsible it probably helped kill Voat. Milo appealed to these people, but he didn't drive them to do anything they wouldn't have done in the first place.
.Isak. what you're saying seems kinda hypocritical. I remember you talking about how people should look past what people do under the banner of BLM, but here you are saying people shouldn't look past what people do under the banner of GG.
I'm not saying anything for or against BLM as that is not the point of this thread, I am just saying that it seems weird to me that you can overlook bad things that happen in the BLM name, but not the bad things that happen in the GG name.
[QUOTE=VinLAURiA;50981983]I wonder if something like a decentrailized video service could ever take off. One where there isn't exactly one person or group of people corporate representatives can come up to and say, "So, I've got this wad of cash in one hand and a phone to our team of lawyers in the other and I'd like for you to choose which one I'm gonna give you." Because YouTube has been in corporate pockets for years now.[/QUOTE]
There are a lot of legal issues to consider with that, unfortunately. In most cases, copyright issues would open up those who redistribute content to some degree of liability, and having only the uploaders provide the data really wouldn't work.
Additionally, most Internet connections are asymmetric, so users can't upload as much as they download.
(I can watch YouTube in 1080p with some advance-buffering fairly decently, but I can't stream from Steam even on the lowest setting.)
It would likely be possible to run something like FP this way, but not a platform like YouTube where the data/user ratio is very high.
Stuff like Popcorn Time works because for some reason a lot more people care about any one professionally made piece than about the average video on YouTube.
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