Edward Snowden's father proposes return conditions.
44 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Fangz;41227966]How about being brutally murdered?
[IMG]http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b196/Starmenclock/dorner_zps8ede740e.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Wow, please share this previously unknown incontrovertible evidence that Dorner was actually secretly assassinated by the federal government.
Citing additional conspiracy theories to prop up other ones isn't an argument. Why don't you go ahead and post the assassination of Lee Harvey Oswald while you're at it, [i]clearly[/i] that was a government job to stop him from revealing The Truth.
I highly fucking doubt it. He is the most wanted man in the USA right now, right?
[QUOTE=catbarf;41228043]Wow, please share this previously unknown incontrovertible evidence that Dorner was actually secretly assassinated by the federal government.
Citing additional conspiracy theories to prop up other ones isn't an argument.[/QUOTE]
Because blocking a suspect inside a building and setting it on fire is totally proper procedure.
[QUOTE=Fangz;41228067]Because blocking a suspect inside a building and setting it on fire is totally proper procedure.[/QUOTE]
[quote][b]this previously unknown incontrovertible evidence[/b][/quote]
It's great how these conspiracy theories all operate under the notion that just saying something happened is every bit as valid as actually presenting some form of evidence. You don't have to back up your claims or actually make an argument, you can just keep tossing out little chestnuts of suppositions and assertions and keep going as long as the next unfounded statement correlates with the last.
[QUOTE=catbarf;41228148]It's great how these conspiracy theories all operate under the notion that just saying something happened is every bit as valid as actually presenting some form of evidence. You don't have to back up your claims or actually make an argument, you can just keep tossing out little chestnuts of suppositions and assertions and keep going as long as the next unfounded statement correlates with the last.[/QUOTE]
May I ask why you always accept everything at face value catbarf? Can't you accept that sometimes governments sometimes do shady things? It is no secret that they do.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;41225970]His dad is a massive tool.
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22952011[/url][/QUOTE]
I think we can all see now why Snowden turned out the way he did.
[QUOTE=Fangz;41228166]May I ask why you always accept everything at face value catbarf? Can't you accept that sometimes governments sometimes do shady things? It is no secret that they do.[/QUOTE]
You're asking me why I take things at face value because I won't accept your completely unsubstantiated claims at face value?
Believe me, I am perfectly willing to accept that governments sometimes do shady things. Most of it will never make the news. But immediately imprisoning or executing a whistleblower with the entire world watching how the US handles it is not something the US is totalitarian [I]or[/I] stupid enough to do, and the claim that this plea from his father is falsified or coerced by government agents is less believable than the idea that it is genuine which requires no stretch of logic whatsoever to conclude.
There's nothing in the article that seems unreasonable for him to actually believe. Does it really seem that ridiculous that the guy's own father doesn't want to see him stay a fugitive wanted by the US for the rest of his life?
[QUOTE=catbarf;41228236]You're asking me why I take things at face value because I won't accept your completely unsubstantiated claims at face value?
Believe me, I am perfectly willing to accept that governments sometimes do shady things. Most of it will never make the news. But immediately imprisoning or executing a whistleblower with the entire world watching how the US handles it is not something the US is totalitarian [i]or[/i] stupid enough to do, and the claim that this plea from his father is falsified or coerced by government agents is less believable than the idea that it is genuine which requires no stretch of logic whatsoever to conclude.[/QUOTE]
I respectfully disagree with that opinion but I respect yours.
Just seems too odd that a father would want his son to go to jail over not living in the US.
[QUOTE=catbarf;41227860]People keep asserting this like we live in an Orwellian police state where the government can just 'disappear' well-known and public people at will.
Can you give me any examples of a high-profile suspect being abused in this manner? Has there ever been a well-known public case where the suspect's rights have been ignored and they've been locked away without trial?[/QUOTE]
For a recent such case, Bradley Manning.
[QUOTE=ThePuska;41228406]For a recent such case, Bradley Manning.[/QUOTE]
When did Manning disappear or get locked up indefinitely? There's definitely been some shady business regarding his treatment and I don't think anyone is defending that but so far nothing to suggest that his right to trial has been outright ignored. I'm not questioning those who say that Snowden could be mistreated as he awaits trial, I'm questioning people who say he'll be locked up without trial and his Constitutional rights thrown out the window.
[QUOTE=catbarf;41228673]When did Manning disappear or get locked up indefinitely? There's definitely been some shady business regarding his treatment and I don't think anyone is defending that but so far nothing to suggest that his right to trial has been outright ignored. I'm not questioning those who say that Snowden could be mistreated as he awaits trial, I'm questioning people who say he'll be locked up without trial and his Constitutional rights thrown out the window.[/QUOTE]
Take the disappearing part as hyperbole. Whether he'd be made to disappear or just tortured or merely punished before trial, it doesn't matter - I don't know your laws or constitution but I assume mistreating prisoners and vigilantism is not in their spirit, even if you've been branded a traitor and an enemy of the US.
[QUOTE=catbarf;41227860]People keep asserting this like we live in an Orwellian police state where the government can just 'disappear' well-known and public people at will.
Can you give me any examples of a high-profile suspect being abused in this manner? Has there ever been a well-known public case where the suspect's rights have been ignored and they've been locked away without trial?
And as for the unsurprising and completely unsupported assertion that he's being forced to say this:
Does that [I]really[/I] sound like something the US government would tell someone to say?
Is it really so impossible to believe that his own father wants him to face justice rather than spend the rest of his life as a fugitive?[/QUOTE]
I never said he wouldn't receive a trial, or that his rights would be abused. In fact, they can do pretty much exactly what I said, and still be within their, and the prisoner's rights. And that's what's sad, that if they do lock him up, they'll likely put him in one of their highly secured prisons and he would have to face hell. On top of that, his father would likely have to go through years of red tape in order to see his son again. The US does not like "traitors" and that's more than likely how they'd treat him.
[editline]28th June 2013[/editline]
You can be locked away in a prison cell, not get to see any other prisoners, and hardly any light at all, and have it still be within their rights. I can only fear the worst if Snowden were to return. I don't see any signs of the US showing mercy.
If snowden was a smart guy he would not return under any conditions at all. Just live a happy life in another country.
[QUOTE=BenJammin';41233502]If snowden was a smart guy he would not return under any conditions at all. Just live a happy life in another country.[/QUOTE]
The US government will never stop hunting him down. He can't live in an embassy and avoid the CIA forever.
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