• 65 years old knocked off his bicycle by three kids. Results? One dead, one wounded, one in jail
    566 replies, posted
I [sp]dont[/sp] like how everyone is cheering about someone getting killed :I [sp]You guys sicken me[/sp]
[QUOTE=J!NX;38170197]Next I bet you're going to say we're in a computer simulation and we're all just programs. You sure are a bad program. Also, you do realize that you choose to continuously play devils advocate and I choose to argue simply because I chose to? I may be 'program'd' to act a certain way but I sure do know I have freedom of choice.[/QUOTE] [quote]Meeting a friend in the corridor, Ludwig Wittgenstein (1889-1951) said: [i]"Tell me, why do people always say that it was natural for men to assume that the sun went around the earth rather than the earth was rotating?"[/i] His friend said: [i]"Well, obviously, because it just looks as if the sun is going around the earth."[/i] To which the philosopher replied: [i]"Well, what would it look like if it had looked as if the earth were rotating?"[/i][/quote] "i have free will cause it feels like it"
[QUOTE=Bobie;38170216]if there were empirical evidence that we were a computer simulation, then i would have to accept it. however, at the moment, there's plenty of other stuff that doesn't have evidence like, the existence of a god, flying spaghetti monster, extra-terrestrial life etc so i cant accept that we are a computer simulation off of the basis of personal judgement.[/QUOTE] Some people choose to believe the bible is proof of the existence of god. I choose to believe your article is existence of a spasm of the brain. The human brain is far too complicated to prove there is no free or not will just like the universe is too complicated to prove there is no god or not see where I'm going with this? Whether or not free will exists doesn't matter, because either way, the older man had no choice in shooting them. By disagreeing of the existence of free will you agree that the older man is justified in shooting him because he couldn't have chosen any other option. Therefore your entire mentality is completely backwards and the entire point of yours makes no sense anyways. "They had no choice but he chose to kill them.... free will doesn't exist however!"
[QUOTE=J!NX;38170197]Next I bet you're going to say we're in a computer simulation and we're all just programs. You sure are a bad program. Also, you do realize that you choose to continuously play devils advocate and I choose to argue simply because I chose to? I may be 'program'd' to act a certain way but I sure do know I have freedom of choice.[/QUOTE] There have been theories that we live in a programmed world since the roman times, and while they are obviously not proveable they are not completely bollocks.
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;38170259]I like how everyone is cheering about someone getting killed :I[/QUOTE] nobody's cheering about someone getting killed, we're cheering about an old man successfully preventing himself from getting killed. we're cheering because someone was inevitably going to die in this situation and fortunately it wasn't the victim. just because we're praising someone who successfully defended himself doesn't mean we're advocating the mass murder of the poor so turn down the liberal circlejerk dial a few notches and be happy an innocent old man didn't get murdered by some stupid teenagers.
I got a tickle that this might've been a gang initiation, since this kind of behavior (especially the target age group of the initiates) matches up pretty well.
[QUOTE=Bobie;38170216]if there were empirical evidence that we were a computer simulation, then i would have to accept it. however, at the moment, there's plenty of other stuff that doesn't have evidence like, the existence of a god, flying spaghetti monster, extra-terrestrial life etc so i cant accept that we are a computer simulation off of the basis of personal judgement.[/QUOTE] Also the concept of a god is much more likely than the concept of a flying spaghetti monster.
[QUOTE=J!NX;38170288]Some people choose to believe the bible is proof of the existence of god. I choose to believe your article is existence of a spasm of the brain. The human brain is far too complicated to prove there is no free or not will just like the universe is too complicated to prove there is no god or not see where I'm going with this? Whether or not free will exists doesn't matter, because either way, the older man had no choice in shooting them. By disagreeing of the existence of free will you agree that the older man is justified in shooting him because he couldn't have chosen any other option. Therefore your entire mentality is completely backwards and makes no sense.[/QUOTE] except our brain isn't as complicated as proving the beginning of the universe. that 'spasm of the brain' is tied to many other concepts throughout neuroscience, and action triggers aren't just a lucky guess. yes, i believe that the man was, to some extent '[i]justified[/i]' (i use the scary quote marks cause i dont feel it was right, but it was merely the only thing he could do), but in a society that teaches guys to deal with a situation properly, and a society which teaches kids not to mug people, this situation would not happen. [editline]25th October 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=MrJazzy;38170317]Also the concept of a god is much more likely than the concept of a flying spaghetti monster.[/QUOTE] how so
[QUOTE=Bobie;38169905]well that is kinda the way conditioning works brought up poorly -> act poorly -> attempt to mug someone why do you think a vast majority of people in prison are also incredibly poor[/QUOTE] A person's living condition does not, an will never justify him committing serveral offenses. Sure one would rob another person because he sees no other option of getting by, but that does not make it right. You're all buttmad because the life of a teenager, which you seem to value much higher than anything else for some reason, was lost because an old man legally defended himself. At the age of 15 or 16 or whatever, you have a sense of what the fuck you're doing, there's no getting around that. So there's no point in arguing that taking the life of a minor should be punishable, regardless of the situation. On a moral level, you could argue that you shouldn't take the life of another person if you have the choice. But did the old man have a choice? How could he know that those teenagers were just going to rob him, and not punch him to death? When it comes to situations like these, it really comes down to primal instinct. I believe that if I were in a situation like that, where I had to fear for my life, I don't think I would be capable of any kind of altruistic thinking, I would above all want to get the fuck out of there alive. Wouldn't you? Ethics and moral aside, on a legal level, this is not debatable at all. The old man enforced his right to defend himself while he was being attacked, by using a handgun he legally owned. Tragic as it is, one of the teenagers did not survive. I'm not glad the kid died, but nor do I have remorse for him. Bad fucking luck.
[quote]The teens, age 16 and 15, and another 15-year-old boy skipped school Wednesday and robbed two pedestrians in West Reading before they attacked the man as he rode on the [b]Thun Trail[/b] in [b]Cumru Township[/b] at 11 a.m., police said.[/quote] thought I was reading some Dr Seuss shit
[QUOTE=Bobie;38170339]how so[/QUOTE] Just the simple fact that "god" is a muuuuch more vague concept than the specific concept of a flying spaghetti monster which makes it easier to disprove. It's the same thing as the fact that you can say a cat isn't sitting on the desk right in front of you now, and it's more certainly true than if you would say a cat isn't sitting on my desk right now.
[QUOTE=Larry_G;38170351]A person's living condition does not, an will never justify him committing serveral offenses. Sure one would rob another person because he sees no other option of getting by, but that does not make it right. You're all buttmad because the life of a teenager, which you seem to value much higher than anything else for some reason, was lost because an old man legally defended himself. At the age of 15 or 16 or whatever, you have a sense of what the fuck you're doing, there's no getting around that. So there's no point in arguing that taking the life of a minor should be punishable, regardless of the situation. On a moral level, you could argue that you shouldn't take the life of another person if you have the choice. But did the old man have a choice? How could he know that those teenagers were just going to rob him, and not punch him to death? When it comes to situations like these, it really comes down to primal instinct. I believe that if I were in a situation like that, where I had to fear for my life, I don't think I would be capable of any kind of altruistic thinking, I would above all want to get the fuck out of there alive. Wouldn't you? Ethics and moral aside, on a legal level, this is not debatable at all. The old man enforced his right to defend himself while he was being attacked, by using a handgun he legally owned. Tragic as it is, one of the teenagers did not survive. I'm not glad the kid died, but nor do I have remorse for him. Bad fucking luck.[/QUOTE] i don't disagree that he was within his right to defend himself. i think you're taking my argument out of context, i totally agree with you.
[QUOTE=Bobie;38170339]except our brain isn't as complicated as proving the beginning of the universe. that 'spasm of the brain' is tied to many other concepts throughout neuroscience, and action triggers aren't just a lucky guess. yes, i believe that the man was, to some extent '[i]justified[/i]' (i use the scary quote marks cause i dont feel it was right, but it was merely the only thing he could do), but in a society that teaches guys to deal with a situation properly, and a society which teaches kids not to mug people, this situation would not happen. [/QUOTE] Actually, our understanding of the brain is very very little or something like Alzheimer's would've been identified already. You keep acting like you know what you're talking about and while I agree, impoverished people will do horrible things to survive because that's all they have left. You also have assholes who will do things for kicks.
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;38170391]Just the simple fact that "god" is a muuuuch more vague concept than the specific concept of a flying spaghetti monster which makes it easier to disprove. It's the same thing as the fact that you can say a cat isn't sitting on the desk right in front of you now, and it's more certainly true than if you would say a cat isn't sitting on my desk right now.[/QUOTE] just because it's more vague doesn't mean it's more likely to exist. there is 0 evidence for either
[QUOTE=Kopimi;38169786]the dude was justified but the fact that this has 108 winners is fuckin nutter[/QUOTE] yeah i'm failing to see who won in this situation the old guy likely will develop PTSD from such a shocking event
[QUOTE=Swilly;38170393]Actually, our understanding of the brain is very very little or something like Alzheimer's would've been identified already. You keep acting like you know what you're talking about and while I agree, impoverished people will do horrible things to survive because that's all they have left. You also have assholes who will do things for kicks.[/QUOTE] then it refers back to my point about education. yes, rich assholes exist, but why do they exist? certainly not because of some false prophet 'free choice' [QUOTE=Primigenes;38170410]But this is how you deal with a situation like this. Use whatever you can to neutralize the thread. :v: And society does teach you not to mug people if I remember correctly Well in most societies[/QUOTE] the fact that mugging exists means that someone is likely to be able to learn it in some way. this is a terrible argument
I've got to wonder how many pages this thread will have by tomorrow.
[QUOTE=Bobie;38170400]just because it's more vague doesn't mean it's more likely to exist. there is 0 evidence for either[/QUOTE] Well I guess to be fair you're right in one way, but then another argument that can be made is why do so many people put their faith in god and not in the flying spaghetti monster. Though this is pointless because I personally agree with the opinion that there is no free will. The only issue I have with it though is that free will aswell as god are very philosophical subjects and therefor their origins are irrelevant as to wether they are right or wrong. The whole concept of the free will has nothing to do with the fact that it origins in abrahamic religion.
[QUOTE=Bobie;38170432]then it refers back to my point about education. yes, rich assholes exist, but why do they exist? certainly not because of some false prophet 'free choice'[/QUOTE] If you're going to drag in the argument over Free Will then leave in the debate forum instead of here. Unless you have theories about it from studies and credible sources, you're little more then fumbling in the vast empty darkness that is understanding the Human Psych and how our Chemicals work.
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;38170479]Well I guess to be fair you're right in one way, but then another argument that can be made is why do so many people put their faith in god and not in the flying spaghetti monster. Though this is pointless because I personally agree with the opinion that there is no free will. The only issue I have with it though is that free will aswell as god are very philosophical subjects and therefor their origins are irrelevant as to wether they are right or wrong. The whole concept of the free will has nothing to do with the fact that it origins in abrahamic religion.[/QUOTE] but it's the same kind of thing. there is no evidence for either, therefore it should be treated the same scientifically [QUOTE=Swilly;38170484]If you're going to drag in the argument over Free Will then leave in the debate forum instead of here. Unless you have theories about it from studies and credible sources, you're little more then fumbling in the vast empty darkness that is understanding the Human Psych and how our Chemicals work.[/QUOTE] i cited what is considered to be one of the most credible sources on free will, but the metaphor was truly beautiful
[QUOTE=Bobie;38170339][B]except our brain isn't as complicated [/B]as proving the beginning of the universe. that 'spasm of the brain' is tied to many other concepts throughout neuroscience, and action triggers aren't just a lucky guess. yes, i believe that the man was, to some extent '[i]justified[/i]' (i use the scary quote marks cause i dont feel it was right, but it was merely the only thing he could do), but in a society that teaches guys to deal with a situation properly, and a society which teaches kids not to mug people, this situation would not happen. [editline]25th October 2012[/editline] how so[/QUOTE] ok so how are brain based diseases like Alzheimer's and schizophrenia completely unable to be fixed or even explained in great detail beyond visual observation if we know so much? the brain is so complicated that people are finding genetic keys that decide whether or not we like or hate bacon. The universe is equally complicated. [QUOTE=Bobie;38170392]i don't disagree that he was within his right to defend himself.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Bobie;38167668]why the fuck are you guys praising a child killer lol[/QUOTE] Great 180 you did there
[QUOTE=J!NX;38170510]ok so how are brain based diseases like Alzheimer's and schizophrenia completely unable to be fixed or even explained in great detail beyond visual observation if we know so much? the brain is so complicated that people are finding genetic keys that decide whether or not we like or hate bacon. The universe is equally complicated.[/QUOTE] are you trying to argue that the brain is = to the universe there is credible evidence for the non-existence of free will. i've shown you that. alzheimers is irrelevant to this argument lol, this argument is filled with fallacy and i don't know if you're shitting me or not i also don't believe this man should be praised. and what does it matter if i've 'done a 180?' surely thats a good thing right
[QUOTE=Bobie;38170504]but it's the same kind of thing. there is no evidence for either, therefore it should be treated the same scientifically[/QUOTE] Asbolutely, they shouldn't be treated scientifically at all though I see nothing wrong with using scientific base to discuss them as a philosophical subject.
Ride a bulletproof bike next time.
I love whenever a thread has an incomplete title/explanation of the situation, really shows who actually bothered to read the article.
[QUOTE=JMJqueseyo;38170546]Ride a bulletproof bike next time.[/QUOTE] And be younger the next time.
[QUOTE=Bobie;38170534]are you trying to argue that the brain is = to the universe there is credible evidence for the non-existence of free will. i've shown you that. alzheimers is irrelevant to this argument lol, this argument is filled with fallacy and i don't know if you're shitting me or not[/QUOTE] I'm arguing that the brains complexity and how much we actually know about it is = to the universe. stop trying to act like you know more than you. And those examples have perfect relevance to your argument because if we knew that much about the brain we would have been able to counter these forms of brain related issues.
[QUOTE=J!NX;38170563]I'm arguing that the brains complexity and how much we actually know about it is = to the universe. stop trying to act like you know more than you. And those examples have perfect relevance to your argument because if we knew that much about the brain we would have been able to counter these forms of brain related issues.[/QUOTE] but we know that free will doesnt exist and thats all thats relevant to this argument unless the 3 kids had alzheimers
[QUOTE=J!NX;38170510]Great 180 you did there[/QUOTE]Turns out Bobie is Mitt Romney's alter-ego. [editline]24th October 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Bobie;38170581]but we know that free will doesnt exist[/QUOTE]No, you're trying to argue that. Badly.
[QUOTE=Bobie;38170581]but we know that free will doesnt exist and thats all thats relevant to this argument unless the 3 kids had alzheimers[/QUOTE] read my post as much as you read the article GJ.
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