65 years old knocked off his bicycle by three kids. Results? One dead, one wounded, one in jail
566 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;38168135]Gun Debates, and trying to rationalize murdering kids.
Gotta love SH :T[/QUOTE]
It's not fucking first degree murder. He di-
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder[/url]
First sentence. Just read it.
[QUOTE=Stopper;38168120]Yeah, because it makes much more sense that he fell on the ground, drew his gun and then methodically murdered one kid and injured the other. Get a fucking grip.[/QUOTE]
Why not?
Why is it impossible for facepunch to even fathom that we might not be getting the whole story whenever it has to do with Brave Noble Old Men killing Young Thugs in self defense?
I hope the surviving teen drowns in his guilt over the death of his friend, not such a good idea looking back at it all now huh?
[QUOTE=Paramud;38168143]Are you seriously fucking comparing a failed robbery attempt to raping someone?[/QUOTE]
I think he is comparing someone who is being raped murdering the rapist to that of someone being robbed murdering the robber and the person who was raped and robbed being punished.
Jesus fuck why is it so hard to understand that if you have to pull out a gun in defense, you better fucking use it.
You don't pull it out and say "now you guys behave, or I'll have to kill ya!"
You don't ever wound someone with a gun
You never fire warning shots
If they're that hell bent on getting your money and beating you up, those actions will only end up making the situation EVEN WORSE for the victim.
That's exactly how people lose their guns and end up getting shot
You guys are acting like the people who tried to rob the guy were just bad eggs but I'm willing to bet they were all poor as fuck and needed money just to get by.
lol at people who think the old man was crazy or something
although i think killing was a bit of a step too fast, if he had shot his gun in the air first to scare them off and they continued the assault, then this should've happened
but that's not something that comes to mind when you're in danger and being assaulted by three teenagers
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;38168036]I honestly believe that killing another human being to protect your wallet is an unjustified action and anyone who does that should have some sort of legal culpability.[/QUOTE]
When someone else threatens your right to life they forfeit their own whatever their reason, don't blame the victim
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;38168072]This is an assumption.
This is an assumption that will likely be taken as fact because the police, just like everyone in this thread apparently, will more readily believe his side of the story than the opposing one despite the fact that they should be equally important.
This is what is so dangerous about a carte-blanche attitude towards self defense.[/QUOTE]
In the second source the kids robbed two other people on the same day, one of them was on probation
I'd say it's pretty likely that the old man's story is true
[QUOTE=assassin_Raptor;38168122]What if he did not have a gun and in the process of robbing him they punched him in the chest, his ribs broke and punctured his lugs or even his heart and killed him. Or they just plain out killed him. [/QUOTE]
That would have also resulted in a dead person. Both the real incident and your made up alternative result in people dying.
[QUOTE=assassin_Raptor;38168122]I do not think that he should have killed one of them, but it happened.[/QUOTE]
Well obviously you do since you're doing your best to justify it.
[QUOTE=mixshifter;38168201]lol at people who think the old man was crazy or something
although i think killing was a bit of a step too fast, if he had shot his gun in the air first to scare them off and they continued the assault, then this should've happened
but that's not something that comes to mind when you're in danger and being assaulted by three teenagers[/QUOTE]
the third kid wasnt even doing anything other than 'running towards him', and he could well be the kid that's dead lol
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;38168175]Why not?
Why is it impossible for facepunch to even fathom that we might not be getting the whole story whenever it has to do with Brave Noble Old Men killing Young Thugs in self defense?[/QUOTE]
Because it doesn't make fucking sense. Because most people don't get off on the idea of murder. Because when YOUR LIFE IS IN DANGER, YOU DEFEND YOURSELF.
[QUOTE=assassin_Raptor;38168184]I think he is comparing someone who is being raped murdering the rapist to that of someone being robbed murdering the robber and the person who was raped and robbed being punished.[/QUOTE]
There is a bit of a god damn difference between raping someone and taking their money.
[QUOTE=Scot;38168196]You guys are acting like the people who tried to rob the guy were just bad eggs but I'm willing to bet they were all poor as fuck and needed money just to get by.[/QUOTE]
okay I'm sorry but this is just pathetic
"no wait! they were all poor you guys!"
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;38168175]Why not?
Why is it impossible for facepunch to even fathom that we might not be getting the whole story whenever it has to do with Brave Noble Old Men killing Young Thugs in self defense?[/QUOTE]
The only "whole story" that would make it fair to judge would the be official police report.
In other words, this is as close to a "whole story" were are going to get from this incident, unless someone on FP was there to witness it.
[QUOTE=RAG Frag;38168212]When someone else threatens your right to life they forfeit their own whatever their reason, don't blame the victim
[/QUOTE]
I don't believe that theft is intrinsically a threat to a person's life.
[QUOTE=Paramud;38168219]There is a bit of a god damn difference between raping someone and taking their money.[/QUOTE]
Your missing Jinx's point entirely
in both crimes the victims can be blamed (wrongly).
he wasn't saying the two crimes were equivalent.
its like you're trying to misread
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;38168232]I don't believe that theft is intrinsically a threat to a person's life.[/QUOTE]
Getting beaten up in the process is.
[QUOTE=Scot;38168196]You guys are acting like the people who tried to rob the guy were just bad eggs but I'm willing to bet they were all poor as fuck and needed money just to get by.[/QUOTE]
Does that change anything, they still were assaulting him. There are better and legal ways to make money. Homeless people who ask for change can make a lot of money if they do it in the right place.
[QUOTE=Disotrtion;38168221]okay I'm sorry but this is just pathetic
"no wait! they were all poor you guys!"[/QUOTE]
I'm simply offering a different take on things. No need to be like that.
[editline]24th October 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=assassin_Raptor;38168249]Does that change anything, they still were assaulting him. There are better and legal ways to make money. Homeless people who ask for change can make a lot of money if they do it in the right place.[/QUOTE]
I never said anything about that justifying it.
3 scumbags who tried to assault someone who they assumed was defenseless, turned out they were wrong. now you know the other 2 boys won't be trying this again in their lifetime
keep in mind the man is 65 years old, one badly positioned stomp from a foot could've been enough to instantly kill him
[QUOTE=Paramud;38168143]Are you seriously fucking comparing a failed robbery attempt to raping someone?[/QUOTE]
Yes. Not literally comparing it though
Because you're basically pinning it on a clear victim (that's all I was trying to say). Obviously sexual assault far more extreme but it's similar enough I guess.
Maybe it was a bad example? Sorry.
[QUOTE=Disotrtion;38168245]he wasn't saying the two crimes were equivalent.[/QUOTE]
[quote]That is on par with punishing a victim of rape in my opinion.[/quote]
Are you familiar what the phrase "on par with" means?
It's really easy to say "Wow he shouldn't have killed him" or "That was excessive", but when you are in a situation especially 3:1 and you don't have home field advantage, it is a completely different mind set when you are in a situation like this. They wanted to live thug lyfe, they learned a hard lesson about it. It sucks one of them died, but really can't say I feel sorry as it was a clear one side provocation of the other.
[QUOTE=Disotrtion;38168245]Your missing Jinx's point entirely
in both crimes the victims can be blamed (wrongly).
he wasn't saying the two crimes were equivalent.
its like you're trying to misread[/QUOTE]
the difference is that in rape, people blame the victim for... rape.
in this case, nobody is blaming the guy for being assaulted. we're blaming him for firing off multiple shots which were intended to kill.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;38168232]I don't believe that theft is intrinsically a threat to a person's life.[/QUOTE]
You're right if the three teens were just standing there and saying "would you kindly pass that wallet of yours into my pocket, good sir!".
Everything else past that like holding a weapon, threats, aggressive behaviour, physical contact can be considered as a threat to the victims life.
I hate how kids become so idiotic to other people.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;38168232]I don't believe that theft is intrinsically a threat to a person's life.[/QUOTE]
Theft by force is definitely a threat to a persons life, that threat is what keeps people compliant
[QUOTE=Scot;38168252]I'm simply offering a different take on things. No need to be like that.
[editline]24th October 2012[/editline]
I never said anything about that justifying it.[/QUOTE]
Yea I see your point, they might have just been desperate for money while everyone thinks they are just thugs or something.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;38168215]That would have also resulted in a dead person. Both the real incident and your made up alternative result in people dying.
Well obviously you do since you're doing your best to justify it.[/QUOTE]
Your way an innocent man dies. The alternative is a thug on probation dies because he attacked someone. Maybe if the kid hadn't been such a hardass he wouldn't have attacked someone and gotten shot by his victim.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;38168232]I don't believe that theft is intrinsically a threat to a person's life.[/QUOTE]
Yeah it isn't like they physically assaulting him, or anything... Right?
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