Statue of Gen. Robert E. Lee removed from Dallas park under armed police guard
76 replies, posted
Im sorry but I just don't understand why we have momuments to literal traitors in the first place. We dont memorialize Benedict Arnold, how are the confederates any different?
[editline]16th September 2017[/editline]
Like dont give me bullshit about how lee wasnt that bad either. He's still a traitor by any definition
[QUOTE=Kyle902;52687089]Im sorry but I just don't understand why we have momuments to literal traitors in the first place. We dont memorialize Benedict Arnold, how are the confederates any different?
[editline]16th September 2017[/editline]
Like dont give me bullshit about how lee wasnt that bad either. He's still a traitor by any definition[/QUOTE]
Because secession almost always = treason by the laws of whatever country you secede from. The US is a nation of traitors, so it should be no surprise!
He did, unlike the majority of the actual soldiers, however, swear oaths as part of his military background to NOT do shit like that, though. But, despite that, he was a gentleman and widely regarded as an all around great guy who made a poor choice leading to a vastly extended war. Without him the entire Confederacy would have collapsed much, much sooner than it did. No other generals in the south compared to him, though they did have other skillful leaders. Without him, though, I suspect it would have been no more than a blip on the historical radar like the Tennessee Whiskey Rebellion.
-snip-
[editline]16th September 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lambeth;52684004]IIRC he personally thought it was awful but the demand was too great from the public.[/QUOTE]
If public demand dictated policy like that then we'd still have segregated schools in the south. If FDR folded to public opinion for the japanese internment that then he is quite simply not a good president.
[QUOTE=CarnolfMeatla;52683590]Wasn't the democratic party who wanted to secede from the United States? Didn't they found the KKK?
When you dismantle statues because of history, how about banning the party which was responsible for the civil war in the first place?[/QUOTE]
Holy shit this is one of the worst posts I've read in a very long time. We should [I]ban a political party[/I] (???) because they share the same name with a political party from over a century ago, even though they have the opposite platform to that party today. It's like saying we should go to war with Japan tomorrow because of their policies of violent imperialism 76 years ago.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;52687153]Yup its 100% treason by definition. Also trying to compare the American revolution to the confederacy is laughable.
Great dudes dont ignore their father in laws will that would've freed all his slaves
So we should idolize traitors who were good military commanders then? I'll make sure to go build me a few benedict arnold statues then.
[editline]16th September 2017[/editline]
If public demand dictated policy like that then we'd still have segregated schools in the south. If FDR folded to public opinion for the japanese internment that then he is quite simply not a good president.[/QUOTE]
I think you misread the intent. The first line is a joke, and the rest is intended to support what you're saying. If he hadn't joined the south, the war would have been over much sooner and left less of a lasting impact. His bad choice should not be remembered, which even he seems to have agreed with from his post-war statements.
[QUOTE=Chronische;52687188]I think you misread the intent. The first line is a joke, and the rest is intended to support what you're saying. If he hadn't joined the south, the war would have been over much sooner and left less of a lasting impact. His bad choice should not be remembered, which even he seems to have agreed with from his post-war statements.[/QUOTE]
Oops, my bad
[QUOTE=Tudd;52683189]If they wanted to make it meaningful they would have won by vote.
Now it is a virtue signal by the mayor and a move sparked by the potential threat of violence.[/QUOTE]
Explain why virtue signals are bad.
[QUOTE=01271;52687257]Explain why virtue signals are bad.[/QUOTE]
It used to be a useful term to describe people who say they support a cause just for good PR.
Now it's basically become a reactionary dog whistle used by chuds like him to delegitimize anyone that dares give a shit about other people.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;52684004]IIRC he personally thought it was awful but the demand was too great from the public.[/QUOTE]
So he didn't like it, but fought for it anyway.
He was a true [I]maverick[/I], you might say.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;52687089]Im sorry but I just don't understand why we have momuments to literal traitors in the first place. We dont memorialize Benedict Arnold, how are the confederates any different?
[editline]16th September 2017[/editline]
Like dont give me bullshit about how lee wasnt that bad either. He's still a traitor by any definition[/QUOTE]
Always funny when Americans deride the South for being traitors. Like, do you not see the irony?
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;52689891]Always funny when Americans deride the South for being traitors. Like, do you not see the irony?[/QUOTE]
What irony? The American Revolution is not even remotely comparable to the Confederacy. Rebelling over unjust treatment as a colony =/= rebelling because uncle Cleetus wants to keep his slaves.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;52689943]What irony? The American Revolution is not even remotely comparable to the Confederacy. Rebelling over unjust treatment as a colony =/= rebelling because uncle Cleetus wants to keep his slaves.[/QUOTE]
You do know that the rebel colonies were seen a dumb shit "Yankee Doodles", right? If England had won and you were still a British territory you'd be talking shit about the 'traitor' Yanks who threw a fit about taxes and dumped perfectly good tea into the bay.
It's alright to think the Confederacy was shit because they wanted to keep slaves, but don't pretend that being a traitor is somehow an irredeemable crime. One man's traitor is another's liberator.
I say this as someone who's country regularly celebrates a rebellion which took advantage of WWI to put pressure on the British and eventually win out freedom.
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;52689963]You do know that the rebel colonies were seen a dumb shit "Yankee Doodles", right?[/quote]
And we saw the british as oppressive lobsterbacks armed with foreign German mercenaries.
[quote]
If England had won and you were still a British territory you'd be talking shit about the 'traitor' Yanks who threw a fit about taxes and dumped perfectly good tea into the bay.
[/quote]
Alternate history speculation is of course the strongest basis for an argument. Keep in mind that I do agree that by technicality we where traitors. But that does not make it "ironic" for us to call the confederates traitors.
[quote]
It's alright to think the Confederacy was shit because they wanted to keep slaves, but don't pretend that being a traitor is somehow an irredeemable crime. One man's traitor is another's liberator[/quote]
So should no one in the US be allowed to call anyone a traitor then? What about France, Germany, Russia, the UK, or China?
[quote]
I say this as someone who's country regularly celebrates a rebellion which took advantage of WWI to put pressure on the British and eventually win out freedom.[/QUOTE]
What even is the point you're trying to make? That people from countries founded on rebellion have no right to call others traitors??
[QUOTE=Kyle902;52690030]
What even is the point you're trying to make? That people from countries founded on rebellion have no right to call others traitors??[/QUOTE]
No, my point is of all the problems you could have with the Confederates. The racism, the slavery, instigating a very costly war. The point that I see brought up every time is that they were 'No good dirty traitors'. Like, that's the smallest thing to hate them for.
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;52690169]No, my point is of all the problems you could have with the Confederates. The racism, the slavery, instigating a very costly war. The point that I see brought up every time is that they were 'No good dirty traitors'. Like, that's the smallest thing to hate them for.[/QUOTE]
Thats most certainly not the point you brought up with your first post. Dont shift the goalposts.
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