Putin approval rating soars to 83%, approval of EU & US in the single digits while approval China at
230 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;45439944]oh god i'm dying
he's really serious isn't he[/QUOTE]
Prove that's not what happened
[QUOTE=pestcontrol;45439938]It was still in a general war zone, a place it obviously shouldn't have been in
It's far more likely the Americans had it diverted there to be shoot down by the Ukranians to use as propaganda against Russia.
[editline]19th July 2014[/editline]
I have violated any rules, you're just getting proven wrong and you can't stand it because you lack the capability to refute my arguments.[/QUOTE]
lol k
[QUOTE=pestcontrol;45439938]It was still in a general war zone, a place it obviously shouldn't have been in
It's far more likely the Americans had it diverted there to be shoot down by the Ukranians to use as propaganda against Russia.
[/QUOTE]
This isn't the Cold War anymore. What sounds more likely, that the CIA intercepted communications with the airline, somehow convinced the pilots to divert their course into the area, all part of some plan to sacrifice 295 people in the name of tarnishing Russia's image, or Occam's razor?
[QUOTE=pestcontrol;45439970]Prove that's not what happened[/QUOTE]
Proof that it isn't isn't proof that it is, I'm sure there's a logical fallacy dedicated just to this.
Moreover, what do we learn from this hypothetical? If you were right, and there's absolutely no way of knowing, what changes? Are you going to posit some ideas leading to solutions anytime soon or just keep championing this anti-western attitude?
[QUOTE=zupadupazupadude;45439980]lol k
[editline]19th July 2014[/editline]
Why did the rebels immediatly delete tweets where they said they shot down an aircraft right after it became known a passenger plane was shot down?[/QUOTE]
Because it's pretty obvious that said tweets could be used to implicate them in the downing of the aircraft. If you have sex with a woman, is it so wrong to ensure that consent is recorded so that she can't accuse you of rape?
[QUOTE=pestcontrol;45439913]
There is conflicting information, even if the rebels did shoot it down, which this most likely didn't, it's still their own fault for flying a fucking warzone.
[/QUOTE]
The people on the plane didn't choose the flightpath, you know. 300 innocent people died, even if it is the airline's fault for flying in the warzone this is still a horrific tragedy.
[QUOTE=Warriorx4;45440004]This isn't the Cold War anymore. What sounds more likely, that the CIA intercepted communications with the airline, somehow convinced the pilots to divert their course into the area, all part of some plan to sacrifice 295 people in the name of tarnishing Russia's image, or Occam's razor?
Proof that it isn't isn't proof that it is, I'm sure there's a logical fallacy dedicated just to this.
Moreover, what do we learn from this hypothetical? If you were right, and there's absolutely no way of knowing, what changes? Are you going to posit some ideas leading to solutions anytime soon or just keep championing this anti-western attitude?[/QUOTE]
I'm just purporting a view that has nearly as much evidence as the other ones
The point here is that no one really is at fault here, the plane strayed into a war zone because the Transport Authorities were idiots, that's all.
[QUOTE=pestcontrol;45439970]Prove that's not what happened[/QUOTE]
Look at that BUK the separatists bragged about, they removed it in haste and drove it over the Russian border after it was known they shot down a civilian airliner.
It mysteriously lacked one rocket now, compared to earlier shots.
Before:
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bsw4xfJCQAAj9Iq.jpg[/IMG]
After:
[IMG]http://www.geenstijl.nl/archives/images/BYBYEBUKBs0nkS7CcAA8yae.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=CatFodder;45440012]The people on the plane didn't choose the flightpath, you know. 300 innocent people died, even if it is the airline's fault for flying in the warzone this is still a horrific tragedy.[/QUOTE]
If it's a tragedy, then Western politicians shouldn't use it to scapegoat Russia
[editline]19th July 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Jordax;45440020]Look at that BUK the separatists bragged about, they removed it in haste and drove it over the Russian border after it was known they shot down a civilian airliner.
It mysteriously lacked one rocket now, compared to earlier shots.
Before:
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bsw4xfJCQAAj9Iq.jpg[/IMG]
After:
[IMG]http://www.geenstijl.nl/archives/images/BYBYEBUKBs0nkS7CcAA8yae.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
That missile launcher lacks a TELAR and command vehicle, explain that?
[QUOTE=pestcontrol;45440030]If it's a tragedy, then Western politicians shouldn't use it to scapegoat Russia
[editline]19th July 2014[/editline]
That missile launcher lacks a TELAR and command vehicle, explain that?[/QUOTE]
Because you can't fit them all on 1 lorry maybe
[QUOTE=Thlis;45439789]You honestly think he isn't?[/QUOTE]
No. Putin is just another oligarchic capitalist and eastern conservative, and in fact uses russian chauvinists like Zhirinovsky to appear moderate. 'Putinism' is just a post-soviet oligarchy and energy empire that pays populist lip service in a time when a lot of people regret soviet collapse. Furthermore Putin got his start as a Russian liberal.
And because of that appeal to populism Putin put himself in a situation where he simply must retaliate in Ukraine, because this is basically a historical divide and it's being used to encircle Russia and marginalize pro-russian attitudes in its periphery, even in an east slavic country like ukraine. It's pretty much unthinkable to the east Slav, minus west Ukrainians of.
Also, Putin doesn't award people like stalin 'hero of russia'. West Ukraine does however, do similar with Bandera, and that's with the 'moderate' Yuschenko.
[QUOTE=pestcontrol;45440015]I'm just purporting a view that has nearly as much evidence as the other ones
The point here is that no one really is at fault here, the plane strayed into a war zone because the Transport Authorities were idiots, that's all.[/QUOTE]
They were above the no fly zone. 300 people died because some fuckers shot down a neutral plane for no reason. Someone is most assuredly at fault.
[QUOTE=pestcontrol;45440030]If it's a tragedy, then Western politicians shouldn't use it to scapegoat Russia
[editline]19th July 2014[/editline]
That missile launcher lacks a TELAR and command vehicle, explain that?[/QUOTE]
Because that state is what they apparently captured it in.
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/8oWvNa6.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Complifused;45440049]Because you can't fit them all on 1 lorry maybe[/QUOTE]
I'm talking about why aren't there any photos of the command or TELAR vehicle? Why aren't they being extracted?
[editline]19th July 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Jordax;45440063]Because that state is what they apparently captured it in.
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/8oWvNa6.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
It can't shoot anything down with a TELAR and command vehicle
This isnt a fucking video game, these are sophisticated weapons systems that require multiple trained personnel as well as multiple vehicles
[img]http://i.imgur.com/bn1AkJR.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/DXIpo5N.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Conscript;45440050]No. Putin is just another oligarchic capitalist and eastern conservative, and in fact uses russian chauvinists like Zhirinovsky to appear moderate. 'Putinism' is just a post-soviet oligarchy that pays populist lip service in a time when a lot of people regret soviet collapse.
And because of that Putin put himself in a situation where he simply must retaliate in Ukraine, because this is basically a historical divide and it's being used to encircle Russia and marginalize pro-russian attitude in its periphery, even in an east slavic country like ukraine.
Also, Putin doesn't award people like stalin 'hero of russia'. West Ukraine does however, do similar with Bandera, and that's with the 'moderate' Yuschenko.[/QUOTE]
"...he's the hero Gotham deserves...but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him, because he can take it. Because he's not our hero......he's a silent guardian, a watchful protector... a dark knight."
[QUOTE=pestcontrol;45440066]I'm talking about why aren't there any photos of the command or TELAR vehicle? Why aren't they being extracted?
[editline]19th July 2014[/editline]
It can't shoot anything down with a TELAR and command vehicle
This isnt a fucking video game, these are sophisticated weapons systems that require multiple trained personnel as well as multiple vehicles
[img]http://i.imgur.com/bn1AkJR.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/DXIpo5N.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
Yeh soviet technology is so sophisticated, right? Don't forget that most of these stupid separatists are gunna be ex-army and have probably used stuff like this before
[QUOTE=Conscript;45440050]No. Putin is just another oligarchic capitalist and eastern conservative, and in fact uses russian chauvinists like Zhirinovsky to appear moderate. 'Putinism' is just a post-soviet oligarchy and energy empire that pays populist lip service in a time when a lot of people regret soviet collapse. Furthermore Putin got his start as a Russian liberal.
And because of that appeal to populism Putin put himself in a situation where he simply must retaliate in Ukraine, because this is basically a historical divide and it's being used to encircle Russia and marginalize pro-russian attitudes in its periphery, even in an east slavic country like ukraine. It's pretty much unthinkable to the east Slav, minus west Ukrainians of.
Also, Putin doesn't award people like stalin 'hero of russia'. West Ukraine does however, do similar with Bandera, and that's with the 'moderate' Yuschenko.[/QUOTE]
State Capitalist, and we don't have any alternatives except maybe Zyuganov or the LDPR, but that's not likely
[QUOTE=pestcontrol;45440066]I'm talking about why aren't there any photos of the command or TELAR vehicle? Why aren't they being extracted?
[editline]19th July 2014[/editline]
It can't shoot anything down with a TELAR and command vehicle
This isnt a fucking video game, these are sophisticated weapons systems that require multiple trained personnel as well as multiple vehicles
[img]http://i.imgur.com/bn1AkJR.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/DXIpo5N.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
I don't know jack about weapons, but surely whatever vehicles your talking about could be out of sight in the pictures, right? The first one is rather far off and there's definitely an area covered up behind it that the vehicles could be in. The second picture would not require the other vehicles as it was taken after the event had occurred.
[QUOTE=Complifused;45440113]Yeh soviet technology is so sophisticated, right? Don't forget that most of these stupid separatists are gunna be ex-army and have probably used stuff like this before[/QUOTE]
"Yeh soviet technology is so sophisticated, right?"
You just confirmed you're some kind of pop historian history channel watching military channel digesting idiot
The Soviet Union's technology was comparable and superior to the west's in the fields of anti aircraft weapons. I already pointed out how you need two other vehicles that are missing.
[editline]19th July 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;45440125]I don't know jack about weapons, but surely whatever vehicles your talking about could be out of sight in the pictures, right? The first one is rather far off and there's definitely an area covered up behind it that the vehicles could be in. The second picture would not require the other vehicles as is was taken after the event had occurred.[/QUOTE]
There are not photos of the separatists with a TELAR or Command Vehicle or even with Radar
So how would they have spotted the plane with that ? With some binoculars?
[QUOTE=Warriorx4;45440086]"...he's the hero Gotham deserves...but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him, because he can take it. Because he's not our hero......he's a silent guardian, a watchful protector... a dark knight."[/QUOTE]
More like the tail is beginning to wag the dog, the oligarchy that rose in the social hell created by a western import: liberalization of the economy and capitalism. Putin catering to Russia's silent majority, which is (rightfully) infuriated with the West and the Russophobic nationalists of the post-soviet sphere they are allied with.
[QUOTE=pestcontrol;45440129]"Yeh soviet technology is so sophisticated, right?"
You just confirmed you're some kind of pop historian history channel watching military channel digesting idiot
The Soviet Union's technology was comparable and superior to the west's in the fields of anti aircraft weapons. I already pointed out how you need two other vehicles that are missing.
[editline]19th July 2014[/editline]
There are not photos of the separatists with a TELAR or Command Vehicle or even with Radar
So how would they have spotted the plane with that ? With some binoculars?[/QUOTE]
But the photos don't show that the other shit [I]isn't[/I] there, it just doesn't show that it is there. If it has been confirmed that that's the same vehicle, and it left the area with one less missile than it came in with, that's awfully suspicious.
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;45440156]But the photos don't show that the other shit [I]isn't[/I] there, it just doesn't show that it is there. If it has been confirmed that that's the same vehicle, and it left the area with one less missile than it came in with, that's awfully suspicious.[/QUOTE]
Without concrete evidence of a command and TELAR vehicles nothing can be said concretely
[QUOTE=pestcontrol;45440163]Without concrete evidence of a command and TELAR vehicles nothing can be said concretely[/QUOTE]
Well why else would they have one less missile than before if it didn't have the targeting systems to fire at anything? Hell, why would they bring it to that area if they didn't have a means of using it? I am assuming that that "one less missile" thing was confirmed, if you can find evidence otherwise then the whole point is moot.
[QUOTE=pestcontrol;45440163]Without concrete evidence of a command and TELAR vehicles nothing can be said concretely[/QUOTE]
Except that the Ukraine was 100% responsible.
I suppose the Ukraine also shot down it's own military jets earlier as well.
[QUOTE=Thlis;45440182]Except that the Ukraine was 100% responsible.
I suppose the Ukraine also shot down it's own military jets earlier as well.[/QUOTE]
The SU-25s were probably brought down by ZPUs and MANPADs
[QUOTE=pestcontrol;45440163]Without concrete evidence of a command and TELAR vehicles nothing can be said concretely[/QUOTE]
The Buk is a TELAR vehicle. Transport erector launcher and radar. The bulge in the front is the radar. The command vehicle isn't crucial
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;45440221]The Buk is a TELAR vehicle. Transport erector launcher and radar. The bulge in the front is the radar. The command vehicle isn't crucial[/QUOTE]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/8oWvNa6.jpg[/img]
This isn't a TELAR launcher
[QUOTE=pestcontrol;45440233][img]https://i.imgur.com/8oWvNa6.jpg[/img]
This isn't a TELAR launcher[/QUOTE]
[img]http://www.geenstijl.nl/archives/images/BYBYEBUKBs0nkS7CcAA8yae.jpg[/img]
this is.
Also, if they have one vehicle, they probably have the two others as well, they captured a Ukrainian AA base
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;45440265][img]http://www.geenstijl.nl/archives/images/BYBYEBUKBs0nkS7CcAA8yae.jpg[/img]
this is[/QUOTE]
That photo isn't high definition enough to make that judgement, that could be a camo net
[editline]19th July 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;45440265][img]http://www.geenstijl.nl/archives/images/BYBYEBUKBs0nkS7CcAA8yae.jpg[/img]
this is.
Also, if they have one vehicle, they probably have the two others as well, they captured a Ukrainian AA base[/QUOTE]
The Ukrainian army claimed they evacuated all the vehicles
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;45439675]Can I ask a question? Why do you live in Canada of all places if you dislike the West so much? Canada is pretty much the most Western place ever[/QUOTE]
Because he is clearly a troll account.
[QUOTE=BananaFoam;45440302]Because he is clearly a troll account.[/QUOTE]
>you're a troll if you disagree with me
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