• Putin approval rating soars to 83%, approval of EU & US in the single digits while approval China at
    230 replies, posted
[QUOTE=pestcontrol;45440271]The Ukrainian army claimed they evacuated all the vehicles[/QUOTE] And yet they somehow shot down the plane. How does all of this make sense in your head? You believe the Ukrainian army when it's convenient, and don't when it's not
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;45440319]And yet they somehow shot down the plane. How does all of this make sense in your head? You believe the Ukrainian army when it's convenient, and don't when it's not[/QUOTE] You don't have conclusive evidence they shot it down, stop pretending it's a fact.
this is like that one time we had an "incel" post in the thread about the guy who shot up the deli for not getting laid
[QUOTE=pestcontrol;45440329]You don't have conclusive evidence they shot it down, stop pretending it's a fact.[/QUOTE] If we had conclusive evidence that they did and shoved it in front of your fat face, would you believe us then? IDK, you'd probably brush that off as being 'manufactured western propaganda' and laugh.
[QUOTE=pestcontrol;45440329]You don't have conclusive evidence they shot it down, stop pretending it's a fact.[/QUOTE] He means the Ukrainian army not the seperatists.
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;45440339]If we had conclusive evidence that they did and shoved it in front of your fat face, would you believe us then? IDK, you'd probably brush that off as being 'manufactured western propaganda' and laugh.[/QUOTE] Sure wouldn't be the first time the west tried to bullshit us over Ukraine. See the anti-semitic Donetsk letter hoax, the NYT article that 'proved' Russian soldiers in Ukraine with Georgia photo comparisons, and Svoboda's 1% result as a sign of the state of Ukrainian nationalism and exaggerated Russian claims. Don't pretend there isn't an information war being waged over the west's little coup.
[QUOTE=Teddybeer;45440349]The country that had 193 passenger in that plane says it more likely that it was shot down than anything else and is currently regarded as what officially happened unless new evidence that it wasn't surfaces. It does really help that the place is looted and cleaned before experts can even safely arrive if at all, which in its turn heavily incriminates the ~separatist~.[/QUOTE] Lol you guys are not reading each other's posts right. Laserbeam meant the Ukrainian army when he said they somehow shot it down even though they evacuated the airbase. pestcontrol thought that Laserbeam meant that the seperatists shot it down and said that there's not enough evidence for it, not that he doubts that it was shot down at all.
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;45440339]If we had conclusive evidence that they did and shoved it in front of your fat face, would you believe us then? IDK, you'd probably brush that off as being 'manufactured western propaganda' and laugh.[/QUOTE] >Audio Logs >Real evidence
Russian ultranationalist Sergey Kurginyan says in a video that the rebels actually captured a BUK-battery (a battery includes TELAR and a command vehicle) and were going to prepare it for shooting things down. The video was placed on the internet on the 14th of July. In the video Kurginyan says that 'Our talented technicians will repair the BUK-battery that we captured from the Ukrainians shortly. Or they already repaired it'. The video was uploaded on the 14th of July and was deleted after the crash.
[QUOTE=Hellreaver;45437735]Sad part is a lot of people actually genuinely believe him in Russia. I've met countless Russian people online who talk about Putin like a demi-god and believe that our "corrupted West" will fall to the mighty Russia. It's sad.[/QUOTE] I met a Russian once who thought the west didn't intervene in WW2 until 1944, and that before that it was only Soviets vs Nazis. He also thought it was because the west wanted to let the Nazis 'bleed' the Russians out, then come in at the last second to claim hero status. Apparently he didn't know about the North Africa campaign, Italian campaign, or the endless day/night bombings by the RAF / AAF. He also said the Cold War was the West's fault, hat Stalin did everything he could to prevent it, and implied that every country west of Berlin joined the USSR voluntarily, including Poland.
[QUOTE=pestcontrol;45440379]>Real evidence[/QUOTE] Here's evidence they had a [URL="http://twitter.com/RobPulseNews/status/489815856135036928"]BUK[/URL] system. More evidence, this time suggesting that they [URL="http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/ukraine-rebels-stole-same-missiles-that-may-have-taken-1606774715/1606791724/+pgeorge"]stole anti-air equipment from Ukrainian bases[/URL]. 3 Buk systems being moved into Russia by separatists. Evidence of that: [URL="http://news.sky.com/story/1303884/weapon-moved-to-russia-after-mh17-shot"]here[/URL] and [URL="http://www.smh.com.au/world/us-intelligence-report-confirms-prorussian-separatists-shot-down-malaysia-airlines-plane-20140719-zuq0p.html"]here[/URL]. This movement suggests Russian assistance. Evidence they were already shooting down planes, [URL="http://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/20140717185321.shtml"]here[/URL]. And [URL="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10899773/The-moment-a-Ukrainian-aircraft-was-shot-down-by-separatists.html"]here[/URL]. Evidence that a Russian Commander, Igor Ivanovich Strelkov, [URL="http://twitter.com/StateOfUkraine/status/489802664264212480/photo/1"]intended[/URL] for MH17 to go down, thinking that it was just another Ukrainian vehicle. Evidence that the [URL="http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-28363169"]separatists realized[/URL] that they shot at a civilian plane. Evidence of their attempted [URL="http://pressimus.com/Interpreter_Mag/press/3393"]cover up[/URL].
[QUOTE=pestcontrol;45438199]Putin has done nothing wrong, everything "bad" he has done was done by the US first.[/QUOTE] Yeah, remember when US tanks rolled into Crimea? Oh, wait, right, that never happened.
[QUOTE=proch;45441116]Yeah, remember when US tanks rolled into Crimea? Oh, wait, right, that never happened.[/QUOTE] Yea just US money and politicians urging Ukrainian nationalists to seize the state after forcing a divided country to make a choice between Russia and the West. There's nothing really 'bad' about accepting and permitting the accession of your people as they jump ship from a failed state after it has a revolution of people that hate their blood. Calling it invasion does not make it so. Unless you seriously doubt Crimeans didn't want to join Russia xD
[QUOTE=MrEndangered;45438180]There are people now that wish for 'the old days where we ran everything', and imperialism was fairly popular back in the day. It's not that hard to believe a struggling country with lots of problems champions a leader that seems to be doing something about it.[/QUOTE] Except he's done nothing for the people but spend their money...
[QUOTE=pestcontrol;45440030] That missile launcher lacks a TELAR and command vehicle, explain that?[/QUOTE] No it is a Buk M1 and it has TELAR and can fire without a command vehicle, it's not an LLV that requires TELAR [QUOTE=globalsecurity.org]The TELAR, based on the GM-569 tracked chassis, carries four ready to fire missiles on a turntable that can traverse a full 360º and FIRE DOME radar. [/QUOTE] [URL="http://www.ntv.ru/novosti/1085256/"]NTV reported on their acquisition [/URL] [URL="http://thediplomat.com/2014/07/malaysian-airlines-flight-mh17-shot-down-over-donetsk-ukraine/"]reporters confirmed it was a BUK M1 captured[/URL]
Either Russians are so brainwashed that they dont see the massive corruption in their government or they are so used to it that they ignore it
[QUOTE=Sableye;45441331]Either Russians are so brainwashed that they dont see the massive corruption in their government or they are so used to it that they ignore it[/QUOTE] There isn't any super powers that aren't corrupt, america is worse than russia
[QUOTE=Conscript;45441280]Yea just US money and politicians urging Ukrainian nationalists to seize the state after forcing a divided country to make a choice between Russia and the West. There's nothing really 'bad' about accepting and permitting the accession of your people as they jump ship from a failed state after it has a revolution of people that hate their blood. Calling it invasion does not make it so. Unless you seriously doubt Crimeans didn't want to join Russia xD[/QUOTE] xD top lel I'm sure all the Crimeans wanted to join Russia besides all those Tartar's who were denied the right to vote and the people who were intimidated by the scores of armed men speaking Russian patrolling the seats.
[QUOTE=pestcontrol;45441361]There isn't any super powers that aren't corrupt, america is worse than russia[/QUOTE] At least our system of government tries to act like it is for the people.
[QUOTE=Masterofstars;45441368]xD top lel I'm sure all the Crimeans wanted to join Russia besides all those Tartar's who were denied the right to vote and the people who were intimidated by the scores of armed men speaking Russian patrolling the seats.[/QUOTE] Nobody was denied the right to vote, and nobody coerced to vote a certain way. You're full of shit, polls suggest the overwhelmingly majority of Crimeans approve the referendum and believe it was fair. [img]http://www.pewglobal.org/files/2014/05/PG-2014-05-08-ukraine-russia-1-02.png[/img] Please, cry more. Also, the tartars either boycotted it (on order of their pro-ukrainian community leaders trying to score some political points with the new government) or didn't care. You're not going to gain any sympathy stirring up 70 year old history, lol.
[QUOTE=pestcontrol;45441361]There isn't any super powers that aren't corrupt, america is worse than russia[/QUOTE] [url=http://www.transparency.org/cpi2013/results]Not even close[/url]. [QUOTE=Conscript;45441429]Nobody was denied the right to vote, and nobody coerced to vote a certain way. You're full of shit, polls suggest the overwhelmingly majority of Crimeans approve the referendum and believe it was fair. [img]http://www.pewglobal.org/files/2014/05/PG-2014-05-08-ukraine-russia-1-02.png[/img] Please, cry more. Also, the tartars either boycotted it (on order of their pro-ukrainian community leaders trying to score some political points with the new government) or didn't care. You're not going to gain any sympathy stirring up 70 year old history, lol.[/QUOTE] Even if attitudes are pro-Russian in the area, that doesn't make the referendum legit. It was nothing more than a hasty excuse for Russia to reclaim Crimea.
pestcontrol is just mad that Rusev will never be champion #cenanation
[QUOTE=Diet Kane;45442032]pestcontrol is just mad that Rusev will never be champion #cenanation[/QUOTE] I know right? He's probably in denial about Rusev's homo-eroticism when he pulls the accolade, just as much as he is in denial of Russia's part in all of this. Speaking of PestControl, he was banned for some reason or another... usually it says why somewhere... *scratches head*
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;45441918] Even if attitudes are pro-Russian in the area, that doesn't make the referendum legit. It was nothing more than a hasty excuse for Russia to reclaim Crimea.[/QUOTE] Lol, 'legit'. self-determination's a bitch. So long as Ukraine holds claim to its old SSR boundaries and fails to come up with a state that will be accepted by the majority of a very heterogeneous population, so long as it does not tie its national aspirations in with that of its pro-Russians by disrupting its traditional ties to Russia and exclusively favoring the West, I will support separatism from that failed state turned Banderist shithole until 'Ukraine' is just Kiev, Galicia, and Volhynia. To quote Vaclav Klaus, who wrote a good piece on this: [quote]Ukraine as we know it today, has no historical tradition of statehood, and in over twenty years of its existence the country failed to create a state that would be accepted by the bulk of its population. The state was not born out of its people's efforts to gain self-determination and sovereignty, it came into being through the dissolution of the Soviet Union by its political leadership, and emancipation of the artificial Soviet republics, created by Moscow in their then valid borders. [...] The new state emerged from an essentially artificial administrative portion of the Soviet totalitarian Union that wanted to show the world how the national issue can be resolved once and for all by replacing individual nations with the "Soviet people". The Russian and russified areas of the east and south of Ukraine (with three hundred years of Russian history behind them) were artificially linked to the originally Polish Galicia and Subcarpathian Ruthenia acquired by Stalin after World War II, lands that had never belonged to any of the old Slav states in the East. [...] Older historical traditions speak in favor of strong ties to Russia – the Kievan Rus period, the acceptance of orthodox Christianity, or the tradition of the Zaporozhian cossacs who fought the Turks and the Poles and brought Ukraine of the time into tsarist Russia. The common Russo-Ukrainian experience of the Soviet times as well as World War II created strong human, social, economic and political bonds that cannot be easily replaced. [...] Ukraine's Russians – members of a great cultural nation, formerly dominant throughout the region – do not and cannot share the nationalist ambitions of western Ukrainians. The disruption of close ties with Russia, generally wealthier, more successful and orderly today, is unthinkable to them. They do not see the Soviet era as an occupation by a foreign power, they consider themselves as victors of World War II, not victims. Bandera's sympathizers are traitors and fascists in their eyes, a state built on such legacy is unacceptable. Like Russians, they mistrust the West and do not want to be part of blocks aimed against Russia. Militant anti-russism of western-Ukrainian nationalists is insulting and threatening to them. Due to the Soviet tradition, this part of the population has long been indifferent to national issues. However, present developments make this group more aware of national feelings and the mood among them is more and more antagonistic in that respect.[/quote]
I, for one, never supported Putin's regime. But he trained masses well, I gotta say that. Say anything, ANYTHING bad about Putin and Russia in general and angry mobs will stomp you themselves.
[QUOTE=Conscript;45442301]So long as Ukraine holds claim to its old SSR boundaries and fails to come up with a state that will be accepted by the majority of a very heterogeneous population, so long as it does not tie its national aspirations in with that of its pro-Russians by disrupting its traditional ties to Russia and exclusively favoring the West, I will support separatism from that failed state turned Banderist shithole until 'Ukraine' is just Kiev, Galicia, and Volhynia. [/QUOTE] It sounds like you just want all the pro-West population to change their minds and become pro-Russia so they can go back to a Soviet style Ukraine + Russia relationship. Of course that won't happen, there are two opposing opinions in Ukraine. One prevailed through relatively non-violent revolution, and the other is attempting a violent revolution in response.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;45442639]It sounds like you just want all the pro-West population to change their minds and become pro-Russia so they can go back to a Soviet style Ukraine + Russia relationship.[/quote] How? All that entails is federalizing/autonomy, Russian as a second state language, and not fully committing to the West. You think because I say Ukraine must cater to its pro-Russian half (give or take ofc), that it's going back a soviet style relationship? That makes no sense. [quote]Of course that won't happen, there are two opposing opinions in Ukraine. One prevailed through relatively non-violent revolution, and the other is attempting a violent revolution in response.[/QUOTE] Maidan was not relatively non-violent. It was riotous and killed plenty of cops. It led to all sorts of building seizures both in Kiev and West Ukraine, and police armories and military installations were raided and looted of guns. Party of Regions MPs like Oleg Tsarev were beaten, the Communist Party HQ was looted and torched, and both parties would soon collapse as a political force. Far-right militias which would be legalized by the government and even used (in the case of the Azov Battalion and so-called Maidan self-defense, thanks to Andriy Parubiy) got their start here. Clashes related to it outside of that area directly led to incidents like the Odessa massacre, gunfights in cities like Kharkov between pro-russians and nazis from the west, and all sorts of signs of a civil war brewing. You can't solve Ukraine's fundamental national question by picking a side based on some bullshit violence-o-meter. Novorossiya must be formed, or Ukraine must balance the two sides and federalize. It will not have the nationalism of one half and the economy and subordination of the other. Neither will Russia ever tolerate such a Western presence in the heart land of old east slav states.
[QUOTE=Conscript;45441429]Nobody was denied the right to vote, and nobody coerced to vote a certain way. You're full of shit, polls suggest the overwhelmingly majority of Crimeans approve the referendum and believe it was fair. [img]http://www.pewglobal.org/files/2014/05/PG-2014-05-08-ukraine-russia-1-02.png[/img] Please, cry more. Also, the tartars either boycotted it (on order of their pro-ukrainian community leaders trying to score some political points with the new government) or didn't care. You're not going to gain any sympathy stirring up 70 year old history, lol.[/QUOTE] They're having second thoughts now that the unemployment rates and the prices skyrocketed
[QUOTE=Ghost656;45437619]This only proves that the majority of the people in Russia are very brainwashed.[/QUOTE] I dislike Putin as much as the next guy but this isn't really brainwashing, it's a combination of media control and the fact that Putin "naturally" has a good public image over there because he drastically helped out Russia to rise again after the collapse of the Soviet Union.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;45434717]How many people were asked? I have a hard time taking this seriously.[/QUOTE] everyone in the room with putin at the time when he asked [editline]20th July 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;45443636]I dislike Putin as much as the next guy but this isn't really brainwashing, it's a combination of media control and the fact that Putin "naturally" has a good public image over there because he drastically helped out Russia to rise again after the collapse of the Soviet Union.[/QUOTE] i hate to use this analogy but similar to hitler's claim to popularity
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.