• Call of Duty “has almost ruined a generation of shooter players,” says Tripwire Interactive
    258 replies, posted
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I think this is tripwire trying to apologise for RO2 being awful when it was released. I loved RO1 to death and desperately tried to love RO2 but for every wonderful mechanic it introduced it was countered by some god awful mechanic. I'll wait another year until community mods have really made it into the game it should have been
[QUOTE=Raidyr;39908599]no because it's the same as saying "Your game isn't accessible enough for me" If I was making a WW2 historical realism FPS I wouldn't even being worrying about getting the CoD crowd on board.[/QUOTE] Fair enough, but many of the specific concerns from the CoD players were also very miniscule details. One of the players literally said, “In Call of Duty it takes 0.15 seconds to go into ironsights. In RO2 it takes 0.17 seconds to go into ironsights. I hate this.” It's like the playtesters want to play another CoD game. It's not even the mechanics, it's the CoD feel itself of the quick, rapid gameplay that's at stake. How can you even develop a game for that sort of market without sacrificing all these little features just to earn some sort of stylistic favor? Maybe it's true that TWI shouldn't have stuck their noses into the casual market in the first place. But how do you even develop for a market that wants style over substance? Just churn out CoD 2.5? [QUOTE=Lonestriper;39908630]I think this is tripwire trying to apologise for RO2 being awful when it was released. I loved RO1 to death and desperately tried to love RO2 but for every wonderful mechanic it introduced it was countered by some god awful mechanic. I'll wait another year until community mods have really made it into the game it should have been[/QUOTE] The folks who made Darkest Hour are actually creating a new game on the CryEngine. If you weren't crazy about RO2, you might like that game. I forget the name, but it's the same Western theater atmosphere.
"I released a half finished game with tons of bugs and problems and it got shit sales. ITS OBVIOUSLY CALL OF DUTY'S PROBLEM!! THEY RUINED FPS!!"
[QUOTE=Reimu;39908660]The folks who made Darkest Hour are actually creating a new game on the CryEngine. If you weren't crazy about RO2, you might like that game. I forget the name, but it's the same Western theater atmosphere.[/QUOTE] Perhaps, Darkest Hour tended to attract the worst kind of playerbase (Nazis and massive military spergs) so I didn't particularly enjoy it as much as vanilla RO
I would love to see a New Quake Story/Online game Multiplayer like Quake 3 Singley Player like Quake 2/4
It's not like everybody plays CoD, and if they do is usually to play with friends. I for example, only play it once in a while with buddies on console, but on PC I prefer a different style of shooter game
[QUOTE=stuky4ever;39908689]It's not like everybody plays CoD, and if they do is usually to play with friends. I for example, only play it once in a while with buddies on console, but on PC I prefer a different style of shooter game[/QUOTE] Or that the people who play CoD play literally nothing but CoD. Most of the people I know who bought RO and RO2 buy CoD games.
CoD killed my dog and murdered my favourite games and developers and Activision actually created cancer!!!
You might as well say Quake, Counter Strike, Half Life, Doom and whatever ruined the industry I love the super simple mechanics of cod and unspringsly I hate arma 2 and how it feels, why? Because I just like simple controls I mean, I like playing games that make you think like hotline miami you cant just rush in and shoot everyone, you need to know whats around you and then go in I don't entirely agree with this guy
I don't think that CoD ruined FPS players. Good FPS players are still out there, but CoD just brought the "bro" types into CoD. Not into the FPS market in general, just CoD and maybe Battlefield. Tripwire were just trying to make a bit more money (as they naturally should as a business) by appealing to all these new players, but as the people above me said, they just ended up alienating CoD players and RO1 players. The decent FPS players are still playing.
The problem is the RO2 is the complete other end of the scale. RO2 isn't fun for the most part not because it isn't like a mainstream shooter but because it's realistic and really tedious, When I play RO2 I only play the Action Mode because it's the only mode that's actually fun.
Honestly I thought RO2 was a failure. It sold well but it just wasn't as good as ROOST, so this seems sort of arrogant considering they botched their own game pretty nicely. I agree with his last statement. The entire issue with RO2 is that they tried to make it accessible to two entirely different subgenres of gaming, and it wound up being not particularly good in either of the categories.
Doesn't Killing Floor have some of the mechanics that CoD has though? You can aim down sights pretty quickly and guns are ridiculously accurate even when hip fired.
[QUOTE=TheHydra;39908338]CoD's movement mechanics are about as accessible as quake's or doom's or half life's or unreal tournament's so uh???[/QUOTE] No no they have a lot more momentum and speed build like they talk about, particularly tribes (which he doesn't mention) [editline]14th March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=hypno-toad;39908817]Honestly I thought RO2 was a failure. It sold well but it just wasn't as good as ROOST, so this seems sort of arrogant considering they botched their own game pretty nicely. I agree with his last statement. The entire issue with RO2 is that they tried to make it accessible to two entirely different subgenres of gaming, and it wound up being not particularly good in either of the categories.[/QUOTE] they know they fucked up and put out a real big patch recently to try to fix it iirc [editline]14th March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=ashxu;39908866]Doesn't Killing Floor have some of the mechanics that CoD has though? You can aim down sights pretty quickly and guns are ridiculously accurate even when hip fired.[/QUOTE] obv killing floor is a much more arcadey game
Couldn't the same be said about CoD though? It's not meant to be a hardcore shooter, it's a casual game. Does Gibson even understand the concept of target audiences? Why are you trying to appeal to CoD players with Red Orchestra?
i am in huge luck that i hate the COD engine. the only reason i tried it was that my friend would give me 50 bucks if i would beat him in the COD game
[QUOTE=ashxu;39908866]Doesn't Killing Floor have some of the mechanics that CoD has though? You can aim down sights pretty quickly and guns are ridiculously accurate even when hip fired.[/QUOTE] Killing Floor wasn't initially made by TW and it's really supposed to be more of an "arcade for the sake of arcade" game
Then I don't see why CoD is getting all this shit for being too easy. It's a fucking casual game and they even advertise it as one.
The children of today will get nostalgic about CoD in the future years Just think about THAT bombshell for a while "awh guys, remember MW2, that game was my childhood!" Nothing says warm childhood memories like calling people a faggot over xbox live
[QUOTE=ashxu;39908866]Doesn't Killing Floor have some of the mechanics that CoD has though? You can aim down sights pretty quickly and guns are ridiculously accurate even when hip fired.[/QUOTE] this just in: call of duty invented hipfiring and ironsights. [editline]14th March 2013[/editline] also people railing on KF for being "arcadey" obviously only play beginner and just blast everything. i play KF every friday with some mates and i can verify that it takes a LOT of coordination on hard and upward in order to take down the bigger classes. [editline]14th March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=hypno-toad;39908942]Killing Floor wasn't initially made by TW and it's really supposed to be more of an "arcade for the sake of arcade" game[/QUOTE] play KFMOD 1.0 to 2.5 it is [I]not[/I] arcadey in any sense of the word. they are brick hard.
[QUOTE=Reds;39908398]Mechanically, I'm ok with CoD. It's by no means a favourite of mine, but I can have some fun with it. But it's mindless and "who can shoot first" most of the time, and it's the effects of it that bother me.[/QUOTE] Mexican Standoff on steroids?
[QUOTE=Roger Waters;39909021]this just in: call of duty invented hipfiring and ironsights. [editline]14th March 2013[/editline] also people railing on KF for being "arcadey" obviously only play beginner and just blast everything. i play KF every friday with some mates and i can verify that it takes a LOT of coordination on hard and upward in order to take down the bigger classes.[/QUOTE] If you read my post correctly, I was talking about how both games have short ADS times and accurate hip fire. You can pretty much no scope with the LAR and xbow.
There's no point in stepping into CoD's market, like it or hate it, it's a game that's so ingrained with players right now that you don't have a chance walking into their market, playing their game. They've done it to death, maybe not perfectly, but well enough. Developers have to stop trying to attract the CoD audience with games that start to lose their own flair to become more like CoD to grab a bit of that playerbase. It doesn't work and it only softens their product. I mean, how many times have we seen this happen as gamers? They'll make it on their own by going their own way and being proud in that. They won't get the CoD playerbase regardless but this way they'll get their own market and be more solid and confident games and not have aspects of CoD that detract from the game.
[QUOTE=ashxu;39909041]If you read my post correctly, I was talking about how both games have short ADS times and accurate hip fire. You can pretty much no scope with the LAR and xbow.[/QUOTE] you can no-scope with the sniper rifle in TF2. you can no-scope with the lightning rifle in UT2004. you can no-scope in fucking hitman: blood money. what's your point? are you supposed to sit and wait 20 years for the scope to slowly drag up to your eyelid, take a deep breath, say a prayer to the god-king jehovah, then take your shot in hopes that you are doing honest work? [editline]14th March 2013[/editline] it's like you're saying that just because you can no-scope and hip-fire in KF, it's using CoD mechanics. oh wait, you are.
Man, TW, I love you guys, but you have to understand that your strength lies in the niche market... Don't try to appeal to "casuals", that's what ruined RO2 (other than the bugs and rocky launch, ofcourse)! I will admit the shooting in CoD is gratifying and it's easy to pick up, like Quake and UT... But, unlike Quake and UT which was easy to pick up but hard to master, CoD just doesn't have the same skill requirement... Which is ok! Games like that are fine! Just do what you do best... make awesome niche shooters, and then things will go well for everyone! (Also, please, someone, make a game like UT2004 please...)
[QUOTE=TheHydra;39908338]CoD's movement mechanics are about as accessible as quake's or doom's or half life's or unreal tournament's so uh???[/QUOTE] Read the article. It's not just about movement: [quote]But the skill gap is so compressed, that it’s like a slot machine. You might as well just sit down at a slot machine and have a thing that pops up an says “I got a kill!” They’ve taken individual skill out of the equation so much. So you see these guys—I see it all the time, they come in to play Red Orchestra, and they’re like “This game’s just too hardcore. I’m awesome at Call of Duty, so there’s something wrong with your game. Because I’m not successful at playing this game, so it must suck. I’m not the problem, it’s your game.” And sometimes as designers, it is our game. Sometimes we screw up, sometimes we design something that’s not accesible enough, they can’t figure it out, we didn’t give them enough information to figure out where to go… but more often than not, it’s because Call of Duty compressed their skill gap so much that these guys never needed to get good at a shooter. They never needed to get good at their twitch skills with a mouse. Players like Elliot [Cannon, Lead Designer] and I, back in the Quake and Unreal days, you know, we had to get good at aiming. These guys don’t have to anymore. The skill gap is so compressed that like, “The game makes me feel that I’m awesome.” These guys, when I actually watch them play, they’re actually very poor FPS players. And I don’t think it’s because they’re incapable of getting good, I think it’s because they never had to get good. They get enough kills in Call of Duty to feel like they’re awesome, but they never really had to develop their FPS skills beyond that.[/quote] It's about CoD's formula being instant gratification. You hop on a server and get kills instantly. I don't know if it's [i]that[/i] true, though. I tried Black Ops multiplayer back when that game had come out, and I got absolutely owned. But I definitely see these guys' argument. In past shooters, like Quake, Doom or Half-Life, players were accustomed to having to learn new games before being good at them. Which also meant that they weren't as likely to shy away from new games just because they had a steep learning curve, or played differently than the old games. And I can see how they might be right, to an extent, but I wouldn't say that the problem is anywhere near as bad as they make it out to be.
theres too many games and the people playing them have gotten older; its unreasonable to expect people to sit for hours and get skillful at your game with no meta-game
[QUOTE=thisispain;39909102]theres too many games and the people playing them have gotten older; its unreasonable to expect people to sit for hours and get skillful at your game with no meta-game[/QUOTE] Especially when it was the trainwreck of a launch RO2 was.
[QUOTE=XxNemisis116xX;39908973]The children of today will get nostalgic about CoD in the future years Just think about THAT bombshell for a while "awh guys, remember MW2, that game was my childhood!" Nothing says warm childhood memories like calling people a faggot over xbox live[/QUOTE] So what's new? It's not like people suddenly have changed to stop insulting each other over their perceived skills.
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