• Call of Duty “has almost ruined a generation of shooter players,” says Tripwire Interactive
    258 replies, posted
[QUOTE=zom_bie;39914312]"I don't enjoy the same thing as other people, fucking aspies."[/quote] Don't you get the irony I was trying to demonstrate, though? That's essentially the same exact argument you can use against the guy in the OP's article. He's complaining that the majority of FPS players don't enjoy the same thing as he enjoys, so they must clearly be philistines or they're ruined or spoiled by another game that they actually do like and do want to play. It's ridiculous for the same reason that it's ridiculous for me to call someone an aspie just because they get off on realistic gun simulation. [quote]It's funny, I enjoy realistic games and just because you don't means they aren't fun?[/quote] Irony and reading comprehension are completely lost on you. I just said above that I do like a realistic game, I love X-Plane. Most people don't, though, because it has nothing in it that appeals to them in the way Kerbal Space Program appeals to the masses.
[QUOTE=J Paul;39914346]Don't you get the irony I was trying to demonstrate, though? That's essentially the same exact argument you can use against the guy in the OP's article. He's complaining that the majority of FPS players don't enjoy the same thing as he enjoys, so they must clearly be philistines or they're ruined or spoiled by another game that they actually do like and do want to play. It's ridiculous for the same reason that it's ridiculous for me to call someone an aspie just because they get off on realistic gun simulation.[/QUOTE] Nice backpedal bro. keep going.
[QUOTE=goon165;39914217]There is literally one goddamn server in DH that does infantry only, at absolute best you have combined arms maps yeah, but the overwhelming majority of regular players are on the Tank Servers who are running those maps. RO2 is dead because they went IN THE COMPLETE opposite direction from what everyone wanted, "Infantry only 24/7: With one Tank on Occasion"[/QUOTE] before the massive server fuckup (that caused servers not to be listed) there was a fair balance between infantry/sniper and tank servers
[QUOTE=goon165;39914377]Nice backpedal bro. keep going.[/QUOTE] I'm not backpedaling at all, read my original post. But this time, pay attention to what I'm actually saying rather than getting offended that I called the game you like boring. Lots and lots of people would call X-Plane boring for the exact same reasons.
[QUOTE=J Paul;39914257]Red Orchestra always was and has always tried to be a WWII realism game. Guess what, nobody fucking cares. The only people who have fun with that are aspies who get off on seeing the gun on screen do exactly what a real gun is supposed to do at all times, with realistic player momentum and realistic bullet drop and realistic realism. Comes free with realistic snores as you realistically fall asleep in your chair waiting for something fun to happen.[/QUOTE] actually plenty of people have fun with it, because it provides a much different experience than the competition. it's not just combat obsessed, it's people who were looking for a greater competitive challenge, for different shooter mechanics than the strafe-stopping of CS, and jumping mechanics of Quake & co.
[QUOTE=J Paul;39914346] Irony and reading comprehension are completely lost on you. I just said above that I do like a realistic game, I love X-Plane. Most people don't, though, because it has nothing in it that appeals to them in [B]the way Kerbal Space Program appeals to the masses[/B].[/QUOTE] Please leave.
[QUOTE=Reimu;39908590]It seems like he's simultaneously saying both. The former as a businessman, the later as an old school player. I mean, wouldn't you be pulling your hair out if your attempts at branching out your game always ended in "this game isn't CoD so I can't get into it"? That's like saying "your novel isn't Stephen King so I can't read it." You might as well kick me in the balls too.[/QUOTE] No, it's more like "There aren't any pictures in this book? I can't read it."
[QUOTE=goon165;39914429]Please leave.[/QUOTE] I don't understand why you're so adverse to what I'm saying when it's technically in support of the fact that there are some niche games and there are some broad appeal games. Kerbal Space Program is like legos, X-Plane is like being an engineer. They're just entirely different experiences that appeal to people with entirely different values, and to accuse someone of being a problem or being spoiled or whatever just because their values are different from yours (like the guy in the OP article) is ridiculous. If you don't think KSP has mass appeal, why can't the admins keep the servers up every time an update is released? The game has exploded in popularity since its release.
[QUOTE=J Paul;39914457]I don't understand why you're so adverse to what I'm saying when it's technically in support of the fact that there are some niche games and there are some broad appeal games. Kerbal Space Program is like legos, X-Plane is like being an engineer. They're just entirely different experiences that appeal to people with entirely different values, and to accuse someone of being a problem or being spoiled or whatever just because their values are different from yours (like the guy in the OP article) is ridiculous. If you don't think KSP has mass appeal, why can't the admins keep the servers up every time an update is released?[/QUOTE] [quote][B][B]Kerbal Space Program is like legos, X-Plane is like being an engineer[/B][/B][/quote] Holy shit look at that bias
[QUOTE=J Paul;39914457]I don't understand why you're so adverse to what I'm saying when it's technically in support of the fact that there are some niche games and there are some broad appeal games. Kerbal Space Program is like legos, X-Plane is like being an engineer. They're just entirely different experiences that appeal to people with entirely different values, and to accuse someone of being a problem or being spoiled or whatever just because their values are different from yours (like the guy in the OP article) is ridiculous. If you don't think KSP has mass appeal, why can't the admins keep the servers up every time an update is released? The game has exploded in popularity since its release.[/QUOTE] you're just swimming in a pool of stupid and ignorance.
[QUOTE=goon165;39914505]Holy shit look at that bias[/QUOTE] Have you played both? Surely if you have, you'd be able to immediately understand what I'm talking about and how it's very similar to the difference between RO and CoD.
[QUOTE=J Paul;39914520]Have you played both? Surely if you have, you'd be able to immediately understand what I'm talking about and how it's very similar to the difference between [B]RO and CoD.[/B][/QUOTE] Please stop Just Stop
[QUOTE=J Paul;39914520]Have you played both? Surely if you have, you'd be able to immediately understand what I'm talking about and how it's very similar to the difference between RO and CoD.[/QUOTE] hi, I've played both and I have no idea what you're talking about RO isn't even a sim, it's a tactical shooter arma is a sim.
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;39914565]hi, I've played both and I have no idea what you're talking about RO isn't even a sim.[/QUOTE] Arma is a sim RO is not Arma [editline]14th March 2013[/editline] Too slow
[QUOTE=J Paul;39914520]Have you played both? Surely if you have, you'd be able to immediately understand what I'm talking about and how it's very similar to the difference between RO and CoD.[/QUOTE] Except for the fact that, y'know, KSP and X-Plane were developed in two totally separate genres for two totally separate reasons. If you were comparing KSP and Orbiter I [i]might[/i] see your point but even that is pushing it. The relationship you're talking about is more akin to something like Ace Combat as compared to DSC: Blackshark.
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;39914565]hi, I've played both and I have no idea what you're talking about RO isn't even a sim, it's a tactical shooter arma is a sim.[/QUOTE] Yeah sure, I can appreciate that, I'm not calling RO a sim. It's like how in KSP, anyone can sit down and start stacking stuff, throw some wings on it, and throw it up in the sky and have fun. In CoD, anyone, even a 4 year old can sit down and hop into a match and pick it up rather quickly, just as described in the OP article. X-Plane requires a certain amount of research and knowledge of what you're doing, it's not so easy to just hop into. And RO, being so tactical and focused on realism, isn't something that just anyone would be able to sit down and jump into, you have to, at least to some extent, know what you're doing. How is this such an invalid comparison that people just rate me dumb and don't even discuss it? [QUOTE=Zombii;39914589]Except for the fact that, y'know, KSP and X-Plane were developed in two totally separate genres for two totally separate reasons. If you were comparing KSP and Orbiter I [i]might[/i] see your point but even that is pushing it. The relationship you're talking about is more akin to something like Ace Combat as compared to DSC: Blackshark.[/QUOTE] Nah, I think orbiter is a different comparison because there's no design element without the SDK. X-Plane is the direct simulation comparison to KSP because they share the element of design.
[QUOTE=J Paul;39914405]I'm not backpedaling at all, read my original post. But this time, pay attention to what I'm actually saying rather than getting offended that I called the game you like boring. Lots and lots of people would call X-Plane boring for the exact same reasons.[/QUOTE] they probably would have listened to you if you didn't call them aspies
[QUOTE=J Paul;39914611]And RO, being so tactical and focused on realism, isn't something that just anyone would be able to sit down and jump into, you have to, at least to some extent, know what you're doing.[/QUOTE] no not really, you don't have to sit down and read field manuals, you probably could learn the basics in 30 minutes, if not less. similarly, Counter-Strike is similarly counter-intuitive at times, and you don't see people complaining about that. (getting 1-deaged by players, getting headshotted by AKs before you can react, AWPers)
[QUOTE=J Paul;39914611]Yeah sure, I can appreciate that, I'm not calling RO a sim. It's like how in KSP, anyone can sit down and start stacking stuff, throw some wings on it, and throw it up in the sky and have fun.[/QUOTE] You can have the same fun slamming planes into the ground in X plane. What you don't seem to be getting is KSP actually has depth.
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;39914633]no not really, you don't have to sit down and read field manuals, you probably could learn the basics in 30 minutes, if not less. similarly, Counter-Strike is similarly counter-intuitive at times, and you don't see people complaining about that.[/QUOTE] Actually, I do. When CS:GO was released on consoles, I encouraged a couple of my friends who regularly play CoD and other console FPS to maybe try it, informing them that it's basically the most recent version of the PC online shooter that goes back to before most of them were even born. They got bored having to wait for the next round to respawn. Not that I'm saying they're right for getting bored, I mean you're right, some games are just counter intuitive like that and do take a half an hour of actual investment to get anywhere, where a game like CoD takes like 5 minutes to get used to. My point, from my first post to this one, has always been that if you design one of those games where it's meant to appeal to the players out there who actually will commit at least 30 minutes to learning what they're doing, you can't get mad and accuse the other players of being spoiled and bad at video games just because they're not looking for that experience. [QUOTE=goon165;39914654]You can have the same fun slamming planes into the ground in X plane. What you don't seem to be getting is KSP actually has depth.[/QUOTE] You seem to be missing the element of design in X-Plane that gives it just about as much depth as KSP. Anyone could probably slam planes into the ground, sure, but the bit where you start to design your own aircraft in X-Plane is where things get way niche.
[QUOTE=J Paul;39914676]My point, from my first post to this one, has always been that if you design one of those games where it's meant to appeal to the players out there who actually will commit at least 30 minutes to learning what they're doing, you can't get mad and accuse the other players of being spoiled and bad at video games just because they're not looking for that experience.[/QUOTE] they wouldn't be looking for that experience if it didn't exist. By designing games so easy, they're shortening the "attention-span" one could compare it to 50 shades of grey cashing in on the lack of mainstream erotic lit, call of duty is cashing in on the "short attention span", which is naturally going to draw criticism.`
[QUOTE=J Paul;39914676] You seem to be missing the element of design in X-Plane that gives it just about as much depth as KSP. [/QUOTE] If they have the same depth why are you trying to say one has more than the other?
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;39914720]they wouldn't be looking for that experience if it didn't exist. By designing games so easy, they're shortening the "attention-span" one could compare it to 50 shades of grey cashing in on the lack of mainstream erotic lit, call of duty is cashing in on the "short attention span", which is naturally going to draw criticism.`[/QUOTE] That being absolutely true, I honestly feel like I'd rather have more people playing video games if it means they get to play easy games, than for games to continue being niche because none of them are made to appeal to non-gamers. Besides, I don't think you have to create the short attention span market, I think it was always there just waiting to be tapped-into. [QUOTE=goon165;39914726]If they have the same depth why are you trying to say one has more than the other?[/QUOTE] Well that's the part where I believe you've misinterpreted what I've had to say, because I didn't say one had more to offer, I said that they simply appeal to different audiences, and that you shouldn't accuse one audience of being spoiled or bad at video games because they're not attracted to the experience of the more niche one. [QUOTE=Juniez;39914621]they probably would have listened to you if you didn't call them aspies[/QUOTE] You know you're absolutely right, I suppose that I just wanted to use the harsh language to demonstrate how ridiculous it is to call someone spoiled or bad at video games just because they don't want to play the game you like. Namecalling breeds namecalling, but you're right, I probably should have been more nice at first. But I mean in the same way that someone doesn't want to be called an aspie because they like uber-realistic world war 2 simulators, nobody wants to or should be called spoiled and bad at video games because they value a different experience from their games.
The one thing Tripwire did right was Killing Floor. What they're doing with RO2 is just dumb. Could have had a fantastic game that rivaled BF1942/3 if it was the same generation. At least in my opinion. Open to disagree.
[QUOTE=J Paul;39914762] Well that's the part where I believe you've misinterpreted what I've had to say, because I didn't say one had more to offer, I said that they simply appeal to different audiences, and that you shouldn't accuse one audience of being spoiled or bad at video games because they're not attracted to the experience of the more niche one.[/QUOTE] You said X Plane was like being an engineer and KSP was akin to Legos, A children's toy. Fuck are you trying to pull here?
[QUOTE=goon165;39915023]You said X Plane was like being an engineer and KSP was akin to Legos, A children's toy. Fuck are you trying to pull here?[/QUOTE] Sorry, maybe I wasn't being clear. KSP is literally like legos, you stack stuff, it's all a bunch of modular pieces. Things are made FOR you to be assembled BY you, exactly like a set of legos. But, also exactly like legos, you can take the time to do really cool things if you invest enough of yourself into the creative aspect of it. However, in X-Plane, if you simply wanted to re-create an aircraft that actually exists, something that requires no creativity at all, you'd have to know things about it like where are the fuel tanks, what are its rated flight characteristics like what is the recommended airspeed, how much fuel does it hold, how much should it weigh, accurate dimensions. A bunch of stuff that people who aren't interested in aerospace engineering wouldn't care about right off hand. And then there's the interface that you have to cope with in Plane Maker. It's just a lot more niche and I can easily, EASILY see why it doesn't have the mass appeal of stack-n-go KSP. But that doesn't mean I can't like and play both games, I just realize where they're different and why.
[QUOTE=J Paul;39915080]Sorry, maybe I wasn't being clear. KSP is literally like legos, you stack stuff, it's all a bunch of modular pieces. Things are made FOR you to be assembled BY you, exactly like a set of legos. But, also exactly like legos, [B]you can take the time to do really cool things if you invest enough of yourself into the creative aspect of it[/B]. However, in X-Plane, if you simply wanted to re-create an aircraft that actually exists, you'd have to know things about it like where are the fuel tanks, what are its rated flight characteristics like what is the recommended airspeed, how much fuel does it hold, how much should it weigh, and then there's the interface that you have to cope with in Plane Maker. It's just a lot more niche and I can easily,EASILY see why it doesn't have the mass appeal of [B]stack-n-go KSP[/B].[/QUOTE] This shit You just backfliped on your own point so hard I think I have literary whiplash.
[QUOTE=goon165;39915137]This shit You just backfliped on your own point so hard I think I have literary whiplash.[/QUOTE] I honestly don't know what you're talking about. I mean this is the reason Legos have existed so long. They're stack and go, you can throw something together either based on the instructions, or you can spend hours digging through the big box of legos looking for the exact pieces that you need to make your own cool new designs. It is what you make it, that's what KSP offers. Where X-Plane is just, here are the numbers, here's a realistic simulation, design an airframe, etc.
[QUOTE=redshift2234;39912459]There is something I think a lot of you are missing. No company/business can get stay stagnant, they need to constantly be making more money, and believe it or not niches don't grow very much they stay roughly the same damn size. A publishing company won't hand you a check unless you can promise proper 2x returns. So games like RO2 have to adapt or die. CoD is hated in the industry because it has become the standard, and produced the mainstream/casual crowd. When CoD came out with it's number of sales the industry fucking flipped. This was the dream that they were hoping for, that video gameing would truly become popular. And the way they managed to do that is to cut the complexity down as much as they possibly could. Watching that; biggest thing in the Industry now is to try and cut the complexity down as much as they possibly can to appeal to the non-hardcore gamer. The sad thing is no Publisher will hand you a check for a shooter unless you can promise to rival CoD. And that is fucking scary, we are looking at another Stagnated Genre, Like MMO's. As much as TW might be ignorant to try and rival cod but, they have to push more in that direction or else TW won't be able to sell anymore shooters. You can't survive as NICHE` in the industry anymore.[/QUOTE] sadly this
[QUOTE=DinoJesus;39908380]On one hand, I like tripwire and I'm not to fond of cods multiplayer. On the other hand, I'm getting sick of people constantly dishing out on Cod. It's got problems, sure, but I don't feel like you can really say its killing the industry. People are kinda looking at a simple shooter franchise and expecting huge changes and innovation.[/QUOTE] call of duty popularized the concept of a game that is so simple and free of any depth that it requires zero brain activity to play. it also made many developers realize that production values mean absolutely nothing in the current industry. look at ubisoft, they release things like far cry 3 and Assassin's creed 3 that are absolutely horrendous but include a couple tacked on gimmicks and they drastically outsell their highly superior predecessors.
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