US: Russia should face more consequences over invasion of country
74 replies, posted
-concession to let bygones be bygones-
[QUOTE=Zambies!;47184862] getting on a high horse and shouting "LALALALA" BIGOTRY AND XENOPHOBIA when it suits you isn't how it works.[/QUOTE]
literally nobody did anything of this sort
and that post is entirely irrelevant
[QUOTE=Melnek;47185037]literally nobody did anything of this sort
and that post is entirely irrelevant[/QUOTE]
[quote]
I don't even know what to say about this bigotry and xenophobia, but it's quite messed up and even worse is how there are some people here that will actually defend it.
[/quote]
[QUOTE=Sableye;47184750]Russia supplied them with AA missiles for fighters, drones are much smaller.
At any rate that's the point, send a drone in let them waste their missiles or if they don't shoot it down use your missiles. We haven't used drones in warfare like this yet but if we do get involved somehow this would probably be an easy step to make[/QUOTE]
I don't think you understand.. the Russian military is deeply embedded in Ukraine. Ukraine has lost every single battle since September 2014.
Proof:
Shown is Aleksander Lentsov Lt-General of the Russian Armed Forces.
[IMG]http://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-FAJe6CEAAZM2h.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://defencerussia.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/135.jpg[/IMG]
Okay nevermind, this is clearly not worth arguing over. I'll concede to Spirit_Breaker and not shit up the thread
[QUOTE=Zambies!;47185058][/QUOTE]
yeah he responded to an absolutely retarded remark left by someone who thinks the bombing of kosovo is just a hilarious event to use to post dumb snide quips
before he calmly and thoroughly responded to other points aka nobody "shut their ears off and went LALALALA" dunno what you're trying to play at here buddy
I'll laugh my ass off if we would just send a bunch of soldiers with modern heavy weaponry, wipe out Russias forces, then when they complain just say "Oh we have no idea where all those weapons and soldiers came from. We're definitely not involved. No idea what you are talking about."
[QUOTE=Pr0fane;47185144]I'll laugh my ass off if we would just send a bunch of soldiers with modern heavy weaponry, wipe out Russias forces, then when they complain just say "Oh we have no idea where all those weapons and soldiers came from. We're definitely not involved. No idea what you are talking about."[/QUOTE]
Putin has the "escalation dominance", Putin has ALL the cards. He won't lose.
I just wish Putin would get a heart attack and fucking die already. He's dead weight to absolutely everybody.
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;47181582]Just use drones to knock out rebel armored/artillery positions, and when Russia complains, just simply state you are upholding the Geneva Conventions by preventing the shelling of cities.[/QUOTE]
Then when it comes up what kind of shit Ukraine army did to civillians every American will be like "oh my god stupid government supported mass murderers again, when will it stop? ".
Real face loss to side with them.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47185371]Then when it comes up what kind of shit Ukraine army did to civillians every American will be like "oh my god stupid government supported mass murderers again, when will it stop? ".
Real face loss to side with them.[/QUOTE]
no one excuses the atrocities that everyone has committed in this war, and there have been plenty from both sides, but that still doesn't excuse russia's efforts to destabilize and fragment a sovereign nation
the kyiv government, corrupt and ineffective as it may be, is the legitimate government of ukraine, by virtue of its people. the ethnic conflict between ukrainians and russian ukrainians within the country was a domestic matter for it's own government to deal with, not russia, no matter how much the kremlin thinks it can meddle in the affairs of its former territories, as was [I]thoroughly[/I] demonstrated in moldova and georgia before.
[editline]asad[/editline]
before you come at me with some pathetic whataboutism again, i was born in chile which was a victim of a similar shitty move by the US government in the 70s and i'm strongly against their world policing most of the time, no country has the right to dominate another. this isnt't a cold war us vs. them thing. this is 100% a matter of what the ukrainian people want, and being back under the russian boot is definitely not what they had a revolution for.
[QUOTE=Dr. Gestapo;47185497]no one excuses the atrocities that everyone has committed in this war, and there have been plenty from both sides, but that still doesn't excuse russia's efforts to destabilize and fragment a sovereign nation
the kyiv government, corrupt and ineffective as it may be, is the legitimate government of ukraine, by virtue of its people. the ethnic conflict between ukrainians and russian ukrainians within the country was a domestic matter for it's own government to deal with, not russia, no matter how much the kremlin thinks it can meddle in the affairs of its former territories, as was [I]thoroughly[/I] demonstrated in moldova and georgia before.
[editline]asad[/editline]
before you come at me with some pathetic whataboutism again, i was born in chile which was a victim of a similar shitty move by the US government in the 70s and i'm strongly against their world policing most of the time, no country has the right to dominate another. this isnt't a cold war us vs. them thing. this is 100% a matter of what the ukrainian people want, and being back under the russian boot is definitely not what they had a revolution for.[/QUOTE]
I am just saying that in my opinion US shouldn't go drone warfare one the rebels. Ukraine is harder and costlier to side with than to fight against.
look who is talking
From what I understand the Russian economy's suffered a lot since sanctions were first imposed but really, we need to be finding a method of directly bleeding the government/military's resources rather than simply bringing up costs for the Russian people (Who probably aren't as much of a priority for Putin). I don't get why people keep saying shit like "Oh noes, don't back Russia into a corner, they'll nuke us!" because even someone as ruthlessly opportunistic as Putin - the former head of the KGB - understands the concept of MAD and how that would do more harm than help both to himself AND his country.
Ukraine should've been left to deal with its own domestic issues internally as it already was, removing Yanukovich from power and doing what it could to undo the damage. Instead, Russia intervened under the incredibly shitty pretense of 'protecting ethnic Russians', used that as an opportunity to landgrab the slice of Crimean pie, started arming these so-called 'separatists' (Who were probably agitated or even initiated by Russian elemets) and then went through with a full-on invasion which has left thousands dead on both ends, including these ethnic Russians that are supposed to be under their protection.
Oh, and jingoistic dick waving aside, countries both East and West have committed a variety of atrocities and been responsible for a number of shitty things including the UK's involvement in supporting the Iranian Coup, supporting South Africa's apartheid government and refusing to impose sanctions and so on but that makes it no more acceptable for Russia to be doing this today.
TL;DR Everyone's a cunt but that doesn't mean it should go on.
[QUOTE=GordonZombie;47196233]I don't get why people keep saying shit like "Oh noes, don't back Russia into a corner, they'll nuke us!" because even someone as ruthlessly opportunistic as Putin - the former head of the KGB - understands the concept of MAD and how that would do more harm than help both to himself AND his country.[/QUOTE]
It's not that Russia will nuke us, it's that if their push in Ukraine is because of a perceived vulnerability, increased aggression in response to their actions will only increase their resolve to strengthen their borders.
Russia's been antsy about former Soviet states, like Ukraine and Georgia, growing closer to NATO and removing their buffer zone. As much as it's about the economic interests, securing chunks of these countries as autonomous republics gives them room to breathe. Threatening ground war will only convince them that their paranoia is justified and that they absolutely need that buffer zone. Providing materiel and support while leveraging economic sanctions is a sound strategy, but threatening escalation to direct intervention is a bad idea.
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