George Zimmerman photographed with bloody head after shooting Travyon Martin (Somewhat Graphic)
105 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Ericson666;35652134]Except Zimmerman isn't white[/QUOTE]
HOW ARE YOU SO OBLIVIOUS raaaghhhhhHhhh hulking out
[QUOTE=BANNED USER;35650037]This whole thing is a big stupid Shakespearean Tragedy. Zimmerman is a paranoid guy who acts as neighborhood watch to boost his self esteem and confidence. One day, he sees Trayvon walking around and being the idiot he is get's the vision of him being on drugs. So, he calls the cops and describes the person on drugs he thinks is black. He then follows Trayvon describing everything to the dispatcher, who then says hey stop fucking following him. Zimmerman keeps going for a bit then turns and walks away. On his way back to the car, obviously no longer following him, is actually confronted by Trayvon. Words are exchanged, and a witness claims to see Trayvon attack Zimmerman and slam his head into the ground, now backed up by visual evidence. Zimmerman than stands up and shoots Trayvon, the supposed druggie who just slammed his head into the ground. One everything is said and done, he complies with police every step even now.
Good luck on that 2nd Degree Murder conviction, because as I see it; due to the nature of the stand your ground law, Zimmerman was retreating and then standing firm when he was actually attacked. I think the judge is going to point out that Trayvon didn't flee but in fact turned and pursued his previous pursuer, then attacked.
I think Zimmerman should [i]feel[/i] guilty for what he had done, but I don't think he commited a crime based on what happened, and that this is all just a tragedy regarding the unnecessary loss of a youth.[/QUOTE]
I love when a normal user says this exact thing it gets 4000 dumbs... But when its you, there are only agrees.
But yes, the guy should feel terrible and I am sure he does feel somewhat guilty for killing him, but the way it looks, it appears it was justified at the time.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;35651128]Zimmerman's or Martin's innocence is not the issue here though, the issue is the failure of the American justice system.
Had people and the media not gotten involved, Zimmerman likely never would have gone to trial. The long, brutal track record of the American justice system with regards to virtually all minorities in this country; the long history of disproportionate incarceration and execution of people of color, of poor police protection in areas populated by minorities, of similar police inaction with regards to the deaths of other people of color and police brutality against people of color all lead me to think that maybe, just maybe, the decision of the Sanford Police Department to release Zimmerman without arrest was based on the race of the person he shot.
That's why this case is such a big deal; it is emblematic of a long history of the failure of the American legal system's failure to do justice to America's minority populations. All of the media's hand-wringing about whether or not Zimmerman was justified in shooting Martin just goes to show that people wicked fucking don't get it.[/QUOTE]
This case has fuck all to do with racism would you people stop saying this crap every two seconds. If you took a second to look up George Zimmerman you would discover that he is hispanic which makes him a minority you twat, and also that George Zimmerman actually demanded justice 2 years ago when coincidentally a race-related crime occured in his neighbourhood. When Justin Collison the son of the Sanford Police Department Lt. Chris Collison beat down a black Sherman Ware in a bar fight and wasn't convicted. The same George Zimmerman stood up for Ware a african-american to ensure that he recieved justice ([url]http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/04/zimmerman-demanded-discipline-in-2010-race-related-beating-for-officers-who-investigated-martin-shooting/[/url]).
So please do explain how this has to do with race aside from the media and idiots on facebook/reddit blowing this out of proportion into some sick racist cold blooded murder.
People like you just add fire to the flames you don't help anything you just make dramatic posts that exacerbate the size of the problem "The long, brutal track record of the American justice system with regards to virtually all minorities in this country" or wahaha cry me a river with your drama. I mean yes you're right we don't know who's innocent in this case, Though what I am aware of is spitting out stuff like this " just maybe, the decision of the Sanford Police Department to release Zimmerman without arrest was based on the race of the person he shot" is absolute bullshit and serves to do nothing but get everyone riled up, "just maybe" you have no clue like the rest of us, and the best decision when you're in that position is to stop spewing random assertions as to what you think likely happened based on your already clearly distorted view of the events, and your bias is very clear when you rant about some huge minority problem which you have not provided evidence of, you just state it exists and poof it must exist right.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;35648509]Because there hasn't been a case like this with a white teenager.
Because they wouldn't have just let him fucking walk.[/QUOTE]
Hi. Please look up the West Memphis Three for me please, thanks
[QUOTE=Kopimi;35651495]it's already been established at this point that martin was on top of zimmerman banging his head into the ground, not that that brings any resolution to the issue though
i'm seriously surprised that after at least 3 threads people are still arguing with and missing sigma's point, the entire issue isn't about whether or not zimmerman was justified, it's about how flimsily this case was handled and why, and the fact that because of how badly this case was handled, even if martin WAS completely innocent zimmerman could have gotten away with it, had the media not hyped this up and turned the case into a huge deal where the police had no choice but to investigate and do their job.[/QUOTE]
People aren't missing sigma's point, you are a saying a completely different thing, you're stating the police were incompetent or perhaps corrupt, that is perfectly reasonable given the current evidence, but that isn't what sigma is saying, he's stating there's some giant minority crime pandemic and this is just one of those race-related crimes. If he'd merely said what you did I'd have no issue.
Also while the media attention was favorable in getting this case to court and Zimmerman on trial, it was awful in the amount of distortion is caused, distorting phone calls and evidence, declaring Travyon a gangbanger by showing his twitter etc, declaring that Travyon was killed in cold blood while not attacking Zimmerman, declaring Zimmerman as some racist, making assumptions like idiots in this thread as to what happened based on their biased view and the list goes on. So really no fuck the media, it was the huge popularity that the media drew in from the population, I only wish Wikipedia could be everyone source of information and not shitty flashy tabloid newspaper wanting lots of money.
[editline]21st April 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Big Bang;35651427]That's a cutting wound, you can clearly tell the delimitation of it, and it doesn't look deep enough to suggest a blade was involved. Seems to be what, two, three inches wide. Considering there was no concussion you can assume it was not caused by a rock or blunt weapon with a hard edge.
Cuts like this COULD be caused by the knuckles scraping against skin, so it is possible that Treyvon hit him. Now all that's left to see? Treyvon's body. Honestly, the photographer took a shot of the back of Zimmerman's head but not the body? It isn't because it's evidence, 'cause this is clearly evidence too.
Also why is the blood dripping sideways?[/QUOTE]
Sorry who made you the blood spatter analyst?
[QUOTE=Drax-Quin;35655713]This case has fuck all to do with racism would you people stop saying this crap every two seconds. If you took a second to look up George Zimmerman you would discover that he is hispanic which makes him a minority you twat, and also that George Zimmerman actually demanded justice 2 years ago when coincidentally a race-related crime occured in his neighbourhood. When Justin Collison the son of the Sanford Police Department Lt. Chris Collison beat down a black Sherman Ware in a bar fight and wasn't convicted. The same George Zimmerman stood up for Ware a african-american to ensure that he recieved justice ([url]http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/04/zimmerman-demanded-discipline-in-2010-race-related-beating-for-officers-who-investigated-martin-shooting/[/url]).[/QUOTE]
[b]How do you not get this?[/b] It doesn't matter whether or not Zimmerman was white or whether or not Zimmerman was racist. The racism comes from the police department's apparent decision to not give a shit about Trayvon's death because Trayvon was black. That's where race got involved. I keep fucking saying this and no one seems to bother trying to understand that.
[QUOTE=Drax-Quin;35655713]and your bias is very clear when you rant about some huge minority problem which you have not provided evidence of, you just state it exists and poof it must exist right.[/QUOTE]
You want evidence that the American legal system is fucked when it comes to minorities?
[url]http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/Facts_on_PostConviction_DNA_Exonerations.php[/url]
[url]http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/info/AMR51/147/1999[/url]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Morgan_case[/url]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawana_Brawley#Origins_of_the_case[/url]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Stewart_%28graffiti_artist%29[/url]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodney_King[/url]
[editline]21st April 2012[/editline]
[url]http://www.lvrj.com/news/deadly-force/media/A-discussion-about-the-issue-of-race-and-police-shootings-134512458.html[/url]
[url]http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-race-shootings-webmar13,0,7686526.story[/url]
[url]http://www.king5.com/news/cities/seattle/Feds-wont-prosecute-Seattle-cop-who-shot-woodcarver-137305998.html[/url]
i could just keep going and going. it is incredibly upsetting of how unaware people are of the complete and utter failure for the american legal system's failure to do justice, specifically to america's minority populations
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;35659628][b]How do you not get this?[/b] It doesn't matter whether or not Zimmerman was white or whether or not Zimmerman was racist. The racism comes from the police department's apparent decision to not give a shit about Trayvon's death because Trayvon was black. That's where race got involved. I keep fucking saying this and no one seems to bother trying to understand that.
You want evidence that the American legal system is fucked when it comes to minorities?
[url]http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/Facts_on_PostConviction_DNA_Exonerations.php[/url]
[url]http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/info/AMR51/147/1999[/url]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Morgan_case[/url]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawana_Brawley#Origins_of_the_case[/url]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Stewart_%28graffiti_artist%29[/url]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodney_King[/url]
[editline]21st April 2012[/editline]
[url]http://www.lvrj.com/news/deadly-force/media/A-discussion-about-the-issue-of-race-and-police-shootings-134512458.html[/url]
[url]http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-race-shootings-webmar13,0,7686526.story[/url]
[url]http://www.king5.com/news/cities/seattle/Feds-wont-prosecute-Seattle-cop-who-shot-woodcarver-137305998.html[/url]
i could just keep going and going. it is incredibly upsetting of how unaware people are of the complete and utter failure for the american legal system's failure to do justice, specifically to america's minority populations[/QUOTE]
You have no proof of that being the reason they didn't investigate the case, like with everything else you've done you've just asserted it is what has occurred. It's very likely they didn't pick up the case due to the same reason we've been back and forth, they were scared to charge him for something they'd later regret given the lack of evidence. It could have been due to simple incompetence etc.
Let me direct you to your blind assertion: [B]"just maybe, the decision of the Sanford Police Department to release Zimmerman without arrest was based on the race of the person he shot"[/B], this here is nothing but bullshit until you prove it's true, all you've done as I've already stated is assume things. Otherwise we could play the hypothetical game as long as you want.
You seem to think because Travyon was black this police department did nothing, yet you haven't shown us how this is the case, it could have very well happened to a white victim if we're just making blind assertions here, like you did in your first post.
Also just posting a bunch of links that seem to relate to a minority problem isn't how you prove there's a minority-crime problem. That's what we call cherry-picking good sir you just picked every available case that seemed to be in favor of what you were insinuating and ignored the rest such as black->white related crimes that went with suspects not being convicted. What you've shown here differs very much from your earlier statement "the long history of disproportionate incarceration and execution of people of color, of poor police protection in areas populated by minorities, of similar police inaction with regards to the deaths of other people of color and police brutality against people of color ". Exaggeration much??
As I've already stated this case has fuck all to do with a minority-race problem aside from the media making it out to be that for the sake of money (George is hispanic + he defended a victim of racism in his area before), please go ahead and prove this is the case. Stop making blind assertions and use the available evidence, if it is a clear case of racist injustice I assume the evidence would be pretty incriminating for you to rant about it so aggressively.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;35659628]The racism comes from the police department's apparent decision to not give a shit about Trayvon's death because Trayvon was black. That's where race got involved. .[/QUOTE]
There's no evidence and no reason to believe that.
Also did you even read about the Tawana Brawley case that you linked? The whole thing was a massive lie.
And there's two sides of the story for all of those cases you posted. Rodney King was on drugs and resisted arrest, Michael Stewart resisted arrest and is said to have died from cardiac arrest as a result of the struggle, which would have been avoided had he complied with officers.
As for Howard Morgan, I'm not sure if you missed this part:
[quote]Morgan fired seventeen gunshots, hitting Olsen's upper right arm, White's right calf, and Wrigley's left arm.[/quote]
[QUOTE]If you took a second to look up George Zimmerman you would discover that he is hispanic which makes him a minority you twat[/QUOTE]
yeah I guess being hispanic makes you incapable of being racist thank you for pointing that out
[QUOTE=Lambeth;35660206]yeah I guess being hispanic makes you incapable of being racist thank you for pointing that out[/QUOTE]
Read what he was responding too. SigmaLambda was sighting in relation to this case that police unfairly victimize minorities , while Zimmerman himself is a minority. No where did he imply that being hispanic makes you incapable of being racist.
[QUOTE=BANNED USER;35650037]This whole thing is a big stupid Shakespearean Tragedy. Zimmerman is a paranoid guy who acts as neighborhood watch to boost his self esteem and confidence. One day, he sees Trayvon walking around and being the idiot he is get's the vision of him being on drugs. So, he calls the cops and describes the person on drugs he thinks is black. He then follows Trayvon describing everything to the dispatcher, who then says hey stop fucking following him. Zimmerman keeps going for a bit then turns and walks away. On his way back to the car, obviously no longer following him, is actually confronted by Trayvon. Words are exchanged, and a witness claims to see Trayvon attack Zimmerman and slam his head into the ground, now backed up by visual evidence. Zimmerman than stands up and shoots Trayvon, the supposed druggie who just slammed his head into the ground. One everything is said and done, he complies with police every step even now.
Good luck on that 2nd Degree Murder conviction, because as I see it; due to the nature of the stand your ground law, Zimmerman was retreating and then standing firm when he was actually attacked. I think the judge is going to point out that Trayvon didn't flee but in fact turned and pursued his previous pursuer, then attacked.
I think Zimmerman should [i]feel[/i] guilty for what he had done, but I don't think he commited a crime based on what happened, and that this is all just a tragedy regarding the unnecessary loss of a youth.[/QUOTE]
The kicker is that even if Zimmerman is found to be not guilty, he's still a dead man. Look at Casey Anthony following her release for example.
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;35660345]The kicker is that even if Zimmerman is found to be not guilty, he's still a dead man. Look at Casey Anthony following her release for example.[/QUOTE]
If he is found not guilty then he should sue the fuck out of the media for ruining his life. They are hugely to blame for this whole "witch hunt" mentality surrounding this case and for distorting facts (like raising the brightness on Zimmerman's photo to make him look more white) and even broadcasting flat out lies (NBC). The public has already made a decision regarding this guy's guilt without knowing all the evidence, thanks to the media's hunger for TV ratings.
And as usual, people will refuse to acknowledge their ignorance, because everyone loves to feel like they know everything and see changing their mind as a sign of weakness or something. They get too attached to what they think and want to believe they are always correct about everything, so even if this man is fully proven with evidence to be completely innocent, people still will not let go of their original biased opinion.
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;35660345]The kicker is that even if Zimmerman is found to be not guilty, he's still a dead man. Look at Casey Anthony following her release for example.[/QUOTE]
What happened to her btw. I hardly followed the case and I have no idea what happened afterwards.
I say he should be let go if the evidence just isn't strong enough for a conviction. Our entire justice system is based on having sufficient evidence and certainty beyond the shadow of a doubt. I will be severely pissed off if the media is the reason this man is convicted of murder; that just seems very wrong to me.
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;35660329]Read what he was responding too. SigmaLambda was sighting in relation to this case that police unfairly victimize minorities , while Zimmerman himself is a minority. No where did he imply that being hispanic makes you incapable of being racist.[/QUOTE]
Zimmerman isn't the one being victimized by the Justice system, Martin is.
[editline]21st April 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Noble;35660164]There's no evidence and no reason to believe that.[/QUOTE]
There is evidence from precedent. If the only time we're allowed to suspect race is involved in something is if god opens up the heavens and tells us race was involved himself then a lot of stuff is gonna get ignored.
Even if you decide to make cursory glances at the wikipedia articles on the deaths of every black person ever and make up justifications for each them being dead, you still can't refute the various links to statistics I posted that report disproportionate punishment of minorities by the American legal system.
[QUOTE=BANNED USER;35650037]So, he calls the cops and describes the person on drugs he thinks is black. [/QUOTE]
Just want to point out the media got that wrong in person. The Dispatcher asks "Is he white or black?" and he says "He's black."
Where as the media initially reported something like "He's black and he looks like he's on drugs."
the American legal system is absolutely fucked and no lazy attempts at erasure are going to disprove the hard math behind that.
[QUOTE=Drax-Quin;35659927]
As I've already stated this case has fuck all to do with a minority-race problem aside from the media making it out to be that for the sake of money (George is hispanic + he defended a victim of racism in his area before), please go ahead and prove this is the case. Stop making blind assertions and use the available evidence, if it is a clear case of racist injustice I assume the evidence would be pretty incriminating for you to rant about it so aggressively.[/QUOTE]
Funnily enough, I heard he was defending that victim from racism at the hands of the a police department.
[QUOTE=Noble;35660434]If he is found not guilty then he should sue the fuck out of the media for ruining his life.[/QUOTE]
I'm not entirely sure how you can sue the media in its entirety.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;35648023]You can't add spoilers to an image.
I think this case is so overblown only because it's a black teen. If it was a white adult no one at all would give a shit.[/QUOTE]
If it was a white teen Zimmerman would've been charged on day one.
[editline]21st April 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;35648469]Not all policemen are racist, biased, cunts. And I think his point was that the media wouldn't be in an uproar right now if it was a white teenager that got shot.[/QUOTE]
There wouldn't be an uproar because Zimmerman would have been arrested and charged right away.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;35651385]hey dogg, I literally posted what was so special about the case right above you. why don't you stop, like, posting for the sake of posting even when the only purpose of any of your posts is acknowledge yr. own lack of knowledge and ask questions that have already been answered because that's a really good way to not get things done
[editline]20th April 2012[/editline]
(except for the part of it that has to do with race)[/QUOTE]
i think if I ever become a respected social scientist i'm gonna make a quote about how even if a struggle isn't about race, people will make it so
Clearly when he shot Travyon, the blood shot up into the air and landed on the back of his head.
I mean, let's be realistic people :v:
[QUOTE=TBFundy;35661807]i think if I ever become a respected social scientist i'm gonna make a quote about how even if a struggle isn't about race, people will make it so[/QUOTE]
well you're certainly never gonna be a respected social scientist with that attitude
[QUOTE=Noble;35654325]Wait where did I claim that it was proven to be Zimmerman's voice? I was asking for proof that it was confirmed to be Trayvon's voice (this is what the poster I quoted claimed, that it was proven).
That article says it has not been proven to be either Zimmerman's or Trayvon's voice, and on top of that, just how reliable is analysis of the background audio of a low quality phone call recording? If they have no way to prove with absolute certainty whose voice it is, then how exactly is this going to be used as strong evidence in court?[/QUOTE]
Calm down, I am just saying. The article states the chance of it being Zimmerman's voice is slim, and there is no one claiming it is Zimmerman's voice as of yet. Everything points to it being Trayvon's voice, and as far as it sticking in court, that is not the point of this discussion. The point is for everyone here to discuss this case, we are not the jury as much as we would like to be.
I just have to wait this out and see what evidence comes in, I don't like joining these discussions so early because the evidence just isn't all there.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;35661188]
There is evidence from precedent. If the only time we're allowed to suspect race is involved in something is if god opens up the heavens and tells us race was involved himself then a lot of stuff is gonna get ignored.
Even if you decide to make cursory glances at the wikipedia articles on the deaths of every black person ever and make up justifications for each them being dead, you still can't refute the various links to statistics I posted that report disproportionate punishment of minorities by the American legal system.[/QUOTE]
There is a difference between looking into the possibility of racism being involved and claiming racism without any sort of evidence besides examples of it happening in different situations.
Instead of crying racism look at the fact that evidence in this case is very scarce. The lead investigator said yesterday that they actually had no evidence to dispute Zimmerman's claim. There is a possibility that the trail wont even make it past an immunity hearing because of lack of evidence.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;35651128]Zimmerman's or Martin's innocence is not the issue here though, the issue is the failure of the American justice system.
Had people and the media not gotten involved, Zimmerman likely never would have gone to trial. The long, brutal track record of the American justice system with regards to virtually all minorities in this country; the long history of disproportionate incarceration and execution of people of color, of poor police protection in areas populated by minorities, of similar police inaction with regards to the deaths of other people of color and police brutality against people of color all lead me to think that maybe, just maybe, the decision of the Sanford Police Department to release Zimmerman without arrest was based on the race of the person he shot.
That's why this case is such a big deal; it is emblematic of a long history of the failure of the American legal system's failure to do justice to America's minority populations. All of the media's hand-wringing about whether or not Zimmerman was justified in shooting Martin just goes to show that people wicked fucking don't get it.[/QUOTE]
Stop making this about race. You're reading far too much into everything, and generalizing the majority of lawmen in this country as being racists. That's their own personal problem, not the law enforcement's management's problem, just like it's ever person's problem and not the fault of the established laws and moral basis.
It's not even really about anyone being black, either, it seems more like people with despotic tendencies using their granted powers to do things they shouldn't.
If that's actually how you view racism in the justice system then that's convoluted
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;35663005]There is a difference between looking into the possibility of racism being involved and claiming racism without any sort of evidence besides examples of it happening in different situations.[/QUOTE]
There's evidence from precedence. The American justice system has a long history (supported by statistics) of misconduct when dealing with cases involving minorities. Until other people got involved, this was a profoundly mishandled case that involves a victim who as a member of a minority. It is a perfectly logical assumption to think that maybe, then, race was a factor. Racism doesn't just come from things like the politicians who were unapologetic members of the KKK back in the 40's and people shouting racial slurs; it also can move and work in subtler, less obvious ways. If we have to wait for 100 percent inscrutable "evidence" of racism before we're allowed to consider whether or not race was involved then we're never going to ever get to talk about something that is still a really big problem in our society.
[QUOTE=Jenkem;35663075]Stop making this about race. You're reading far too much into everything, and generalizing the majority of lawmen in this country as being racists. [/QUOTE]
I'm not generalizing individual officers or paper-pushers as being racist; I'm claiming the system is racist. Individuals who aren't prejudiced themselves can still be complicit in larger systems which are themselves racist. It's called institutional racism. Somewhere in the chain of command there is someone who is racist, or a piece of codified procedure which is either by design or de facto racist, or external conditions which make something that, in a void, would otherwise not be discriminatory, or any other number of factors which are fouling up the entire system and resulting in gross miscarriages of justice.
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;35663005]That's their own personal problem, not the law enforcement's management's problem, just like it's ever person's problem and not the fault of the established laws and moral basis.[/QUOTE]
I honestly don't believe that's true. People both create systems and are themselves manipulated by systems.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;35663889]There's evidence from precedence. The American justice system has a long history (supported by statistics) of misconduct when dealing with cases involving minorities. Until other people got involved, this was a profoundly mishandled case that involves a victim who as a member of a minority. It is a perfectly logical assumption to think that maybe, then, race was a factor. Racism doesn't just come from things like the politicians who were unapologetic members of the KKK back in the 40's and people shouting racial slurs; it also can move and work in subtler, less obvious ways. If we have to wait for 100 percent inscrutable "evidence" of racism before we're allowed to consider whether or not race was involved then we're never going to ever get to talk about something that is still a really big problem in our society.
.[/QUOTE]
There is absolutely no indication that Zimmerman was not charged because of the race of his victim. Im not asking for "100 percent inscrutable evidence" that racism was involved but you are presenting absolutely zero evidence that it was besides for the fact racism sometimes plays a part in our legal system.
You are ignoring the fact that just yesterday the lead investigator in the case made the statement, under oath, that they have no evidence to dispute Zimmerman's story. A reasonable conclusion to draw would be the district attorney choose not to charge Zimmerman because of lack of evidence, not that he was not charged because his victim was black.
[editline]21st April 2012[/editline]
Also that last quote was from Jenkem but it was attributed to me somehow.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;35661188]There is evidence from precedent. If the only time we're allowed to suspect race is involved in something is if god opens up the heavens and tells us race was involved himself then a lot of stuff is gonna get ignored.
Even if you decide to make cursory glances at the wikipedia articles on the deaths of every black person ever and make up justifications for each them being dead, you still can't refute the various links to statistics I posted that report disproportionate punishment of minorities by the American legal system.[/QUOTE]
Why do you assume racial bias against minorities are the cause of disproportionate punishment? How do you know that minorities don't just commit more crime?
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;35661237]the American legal system is absolutely fucked and no lazy attempts at erasure are going to disprove the hard math behind that.[/QUOTE]
Please elaborate. I can just post things that pop into my head but it doesn't mean anything if it doesn't have any explanation.
[QUOTE=areyoublack;35661664]If it was a white teen Zimmerman would've been charged on day one.
[editline]21st April 2012[/editline]
There wouldn't be an uproar because Zimmerman would have been arrested and charged right away.[/QUOTE]
No, you are wrong. Please give an explanation for this post if you want it to be taken seriously. You are just making things up right now.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;35663889]There's evidence from precedence. The American justice system has a long history (supported by statistics) of misconduct when dealing with cases involving minorities. Until other people got involved, this was a profoundly mishandled case that involves a victim who as a member of a minority. It is a perfectly logical assumption to think that maybe, then, race was a factor. Racism doesn't just come from things like the politicians who were unapologetic members of the KKK back in the 40's and people shouting racial slurs; it also can move and work in subtler, less obvious ways. If we have to wait for 100 percent inscrutable "evidence" of racism before we're allowed to consider whether or not race was involved then we're never going to ever get to talk about something that is still a really big problem in our society.[/quote]
I will not disagree that there have been many cases in U.S. history that were handled badly due to racism. However, that is completely irrelevant to this case. You are once again making shit up by stating that "Until other people got involved, this was a profoundly mishandled case that involves a victim who as a member of a minority." Please give an explanation as to how this case was mishandled and how the fact that Martin was a minority matters at all.
[quote]I'm not generalizing individual officers or paper-pushers as being racist; I'm claiming the system is racist. Individuals who aren't prejudiced themselves can still be complicit in larger systems which are themselves racist. It's called institutional racism. Somewhere in the chain of command there is someone who is racist, or a piece of codified procedure which is either by design or de facto racist, or external conditions which make something that, in a void, would otherwise not be discriminatory, or any other number of factors which are fouling up the entire system and resulting in gross miscarriages of justice.[/quote]
I'm inclined to agree with you on this point. Many states, especially Southern ones, still contain very racist procedures and institutions within them. However, you have yet to provide any sort of real evidence that supports your claims. You are making up things and stating them as fact without any sort of proof or evidence.
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