I also do not get the whole fear behind having elements of socialism mixed in with capitalism. No one form of governing is perfect, and by mixing them together you can eliminate some of the flaws of either.
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;32916051]
No, thats not what I said at all. I said making the rich pay increasing amounts of taxes so that those tax dollars fuel socialistic programs for the poor is like a guy holding them at gunpoint.[/QUOTE]
It's still a retarded comparison and I honestly don't get how you can't see that.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32916018]What's your idea of a good mix then? Because I can tell you right now we've been doing anything but introducing Socialistic systems. See: PATRIOT Act, Bush-Admin Tax Cuts, 'Citizens United' case, 'Right to Work' states, etc.
[editline]22nd October 2011[/editline]
He's trying to find common ground, at least throw him a bone on this one.[/QUOTE]
Patriot act was fucking terrifying, citizens united is terrifying, and the right to work thing... seems like a good idea, and the tax cuts didn't affect me at the time that they happened, so I know little about them.
[editline]22nd October 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;32916192]It's still a retarded comparison and I honestly don't get how you can't see that.[/QUOTE]
Hypothetical situation:
Tax increases on rich, rich dude doesn't want to pay the increased tax, so he doesn't.
Charged with tax evasion, man with gun (police officer) is dispatched to rectify the situation.
[QUOTE=J!NX;32908415]Mexicans see their country is shit, Americans see their country is shit, move to Canada.
Then Mexicans start going back to mexico going "Oh fuck this!"[/QUOTE]
No. Mexicans come to the US for a better life, while people from the US go to Canada for a better life. Canadians just continue their pretty good lives of lumberjacking, making maple syrup and befriending moose. Everyone (except Canadians) takes a step North.
[QUOTE=GamerKiwi;32916374]No. Mexicans come to the US for a better life, while people from the US go to Canada for a better life. Canadians just continue their pretty good lives of lumberjacking, making maple syrup and befriending moose. Everyone (except Canadians) takes a step North.[/QUOTE]
My dad would sometimes go up to Canada for fishing.
He told me that there's 2 kinds of people: homeless Indians and people pissed off about all the homeless Indians.
I believe that they should implement changes over time, in a more gradual effect to ease people's minds (such as healthcare).
Some of the things they are looking to address, however, like the taxes are a bit more difficult however. The taxes are something which have should been worked on quite some time ago, but were put off until now, kind of like cleaning a messy room. Cleaning up (no pun intended) the loopholes would go a long way to helping to fix the problems. I do not believe that solely removing loopholes would fix the problems. It would be a great improvement, but still [u] not a complete fix.[/u]
This is sad. And what's makes me more annoyed is that my conservative parents just say "it's their fault they're not making enough money."
"Hey guys, our horribly inefficient government has made us all poor and unemployed, let's take money from those who earned it without their consent! Why would we ever blame the government, no lets blame those 'greedy' people who have more money than us!"
[QUOTE=SomeRandomGuy16;32916796]"Hey guys, our horribly inefficient government has made us all poor and unemployed, let's take money from those who earned it without their consent! Why would we ever blame the government, no lets blame those 'greedy' people who have more money than us!"[/QUOTE]
Oh hey its you again. Welcome to the thread.
Pretty depressing when you look at the cost of literally everything rising so much.
The value of the dollar is less than half of what it was on 9/11/2001. Income has increased less than around $5000 since then, per capita.
I really wonder if a revolution is in store in the next decade or so.
[QUOTE=SomeRandomGuy16;32916796]"Hey guys, our horribly inefficient government has made us all poor and unemployed, let's take money from those who earned it without their consent! Why would we ever blame the government, no lets blame those 'greedy' people who have more money than us!"[/QUOTE]
Yes, because money earned through derivative trading is so 'earned', right?
[QUOTE=GamerKiwi;32916374]No. Mexicans come to the US for a better life, while people from the US go to Canada for a better life. Canadians just continue their pretty good lives of lumberjacking, making maple syrup and befriending moose. Everyone (except Canadians) takes a step North.[/QUOTE]
We go to Norway, and we'd be doing it a lot more frequently if we could just walk there
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;32916213]
Hypothetical situation:
Tax increases on rich, rich dude doesn't want to pay the increased tax, so he doesn't.
Charged with tax evasion, man with gun (police officer) is dispatched to rectify the situation.[/QUOTE]
Now explain how that police officer would hold someone at gunpoint and demand money at that exact moment.
[QUOTE=farmatyr;32907851]Holy shit, I feel sorry for you America.[/QUOTE]I don't
[QUOTE=TurbisV2;32918933]I don't[/QUOTE]
In all honesty, we sort of brought it upon ourselves. Now it's up to us to rectify the situation.
I'm not going to pity Americans, but I do respect the people who are trying to set things straight
This is highly depressing for me. Trying to find a college that won't put me in too much debt by the end of it and trying to find a nice paying job is incredibly fucking hard in America.
People act like voting for Obama is going to fix this. No amount of voting is going to fix this.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=hkbZR7L9Ong[/media]
[editline].[/editline]
Garry...What the fuck did you do with the media tags?
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;32916213]Hypothetical situation:
Tax increases on rich, rich dude doesn't want to pay the increased tax, so he doesn't.
Charged with tax evasion, man with gun (police officer) is dispatched to rectify the situation.[/QUOTE]
Usually they just freeze his assets instead until he pays, or they claim his assets as a sort of payment.
Excluding the whole being [I]dragged to court and convicted for tax evasion[/I] thing
The problem here are the rich themselves and the delusioned members of the middleclass who think that changing anything would be communazimuslim.
Edit: Oh yeah and the people from all classes who just don't give a shit.
[QUOTE=Falchion;32920810]The problem here are the rich themselves and the delusioned members of the middleclass who think that changing anything would be communazimuslim.
Edit: Oh yeah and the people from all classes who just don't give a shit.[/QUOTE]
Maybe communazimuslim wouldn't be all that bad. You can't know until you try.
[QUOTE=Xain777;32918712]Now explain how that police officer would hold someone at gunpoint and demand money at that exact moment.[/QUOTE]
Its an extreme version of a [I]hypothetical situation[/I]... and you are taking it literally?
So these are the kind of people that debate on here about the future? Pfft, fuck that. Its like debating with children on here.
Actually, no, scratch that, i'd rather debate with my 12 year old younger brother, he's already miles ahead of you people in terms of logic and understanding anyway.
Except for Megafanx, he's pretty cool.
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;32927530]Its an extreme version of a [I]hypothetical situation[/I]... and you are taking it literally?
So these are the kind of people that debate on here about the future? Pfft, fuck that. Its like debating with children on here.
Actually, no, scratch that, i'd rather debate with my 12 year old younger brother, he's already miles ahead of you people in terms of logic and understanding anyway.
Except for Megafanx, he's pretty cool.[/QUOTE]
You know, you got called out for basically acting like a dumb petulant child by making this almost exact same "YOU'RE ALL DUMB UNLIKE ME WHO IS SUPER DUPER SMART AND I'M LEAVING HUEHUEHUE" in the Cain: For the Poor thread. It seems you don't realize that when you say things like that it makes you look like an ignorant prat.
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;32927530]Its an extreme version of a [I]hypothetical situation[/I]... and you are taking it literally?
So these are the kind of people that debate on here about the future? Pfft, fuck that. Its like debating with children on here.
Actually, no, scratch that, i'd rather debate with my 12 year old younger brother, he's already miles ahead of you people in terms of logic and understanding anyway.
Except for Megafanx, he's pretty cool.[/QUOTE]
You've brought your dumb-shit opinions, your unsubstantiated claims and your shitty attitude in to threads concerning this for quite a while, yet people who disagree with you are children.
No that makes absolute sense, it really does.
You seemed okay because you tried to find a middle-ground, but in the end you're just one of those "Hurr tax is stealing SOCIALISM IS BAD MERICUH NUMBAH ONE" republicans.
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;32915362]So what is the "fair share"?[/QUOTE]
It's not even so much them having to pay a fair share in taxes (though they do get out of paying alot of it), it's about recirculating money. There's only so much money, and if a small group of people acquire alot of it and keep holding onto it, then there's less money elsewhere, it becomes scarce. Strong economies depend on money being spent, and if even the lower 70% are afraid to spend money on anything but the bare necessities because they're barely making enough to get by then the economy stagnates, and that's bad.
[QUOTE=Miskav;32929096]
You seemed okay because you tried to find a middle-ground, but in the end you're just one of those "Hurr tax is stealing SOCIALISM IS BAD MERICUH NUMBAH ONE" republicans.[/QUOTE]
This mentality really grinds my gears. People like him look at Socialism and the like and go "IT'S EVIL BURN THE WITCH" but what they don't understand is that an economic and/or social system is not inherently good or evil. They go "Stalin was a Communist and he killed millions of people therefore Communism is evil!" which is so not the case.
[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;32929276]This mentality really grinds my gears. People like him look at Socialism and the like and go "IT'S EVIL BURN THE WITCH" but what they don't understand is that an economic and/or social system is not inherently good or evil. They go "Stalin was a Communist and he killed millions of people therefore Communism is evil!" which is so not the case.[/QUOTE]
So you missed my "good mix is good" part then, okay. You missed that, and now you assume that I'm so extreme antisocialism that I can't even consider socialistic programs, which is wrong.
You stuff words in my mouth, you assume extreme things based off of no fact and minimal opinions, you insult, call names, and refuse to consider anything else other than your own opinion. Thats not debating, or even arguing. Thats just you yelling at someone who dared to have another opinion. I came here for a debate, not a fucking lecture on why i'm such an evil bastard. Goodbye.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;32908152]50% of ALL working US earned less than 30k in a year? Holy shit, that's really fucked up. Now I can totally see the reasons for Occupy protests.[/QUOTE]
Let me put it this way. In a "standard" 40 hour work week, for those of us making minimum wage or close to minimum wage, we're making less than $17,000 per year, before taxes. At $8 an hour, for 40 hours a week, a yearly salary is $16,640. Subtract taxes from that, and you'll see just how fucked we are.
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;32929481]
You stuff words in my mouth, [B]you assume extreme things based off of no fact and minimal opinions[/B], you insult, call names, and refuse to consider anything else other than your own opinion. Thats not debating, or even arguing. Thats just you yelling at someone who dared to have another opinion.[B] I came here for a debate,[/B] not a fucking lecture on why i'm such an evil bastard. Goodbye. [/QUOTE]
That's funny because you just did exactly that.
Don't you claim you came here to debate when you go "YOU GUYS SUCK ME AND MY BROTHER ARE SOOOOOOO MUCH SMARTER THAN YOU SO I'M LEAVING!" like a whiny child. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
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