• Now it's Swexit! Swedish MEP says his homeland could be next to leave the EU
    69 replies, posted
i hope that every European country leaves European Union and then they all form together in a new alliance called the "Union of Europe" and it'll be exactly the same as the European Union except the name is different
[QUOTE=laserpanda;52067905]Isn't Sweden already somewhat less than a full member so they can keep using kronor?[/QUOTE] Still a full member, just using an exception, that says we eventually should change to the Euro, just when we feel like it.
[QUOTE=archangel125;52049560]April 1st shenanigans aside, why are people so against globalism? Is it such a huge fear among the extreme right that a global government will lead to their cultures being erased? I mean, even among globalists, that's not an ideal they want to see happening.[/QUOTE] It will, just look at China with their "One China" doctrine, where the state is intentionally killing off cantonese and other parts of their culture like religion so that everyone is the same culture, and that they're united by their forced "heritage". It has been historically shown that people with different cultures often tend to end up fighting for independence. To expand upon the part about religion, the country has "official branches" of the religion you follow and if you follow any other sect of that religion other than the official one, you end up dissapearing.
[QUOTE=space1;52068365]It will, just look at China with their "One China" doctrine, where the state is intentionally killing off cantonese and other parts of their culture like religion so that everyone is the same culture, and that they're united by their forced "heritage". It has been historically shown that people with different cultures often tend to end up fighting for independence. To expand upon the part about religion, the country has "official branches" of the religion you follow and if you follow any other sect of that religion other than the official one, you end up dissapearing.[/QUOTE] that's not globalism, or globalization that's just par for the course for china
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52068383]that's not globalism, or globalization that's just par for the course for china[/QUOTE] it's more or less what would happen if the EU became a united political state rather than just being fuel for the German economy as it is right now.
[QUOTE=space1;52068405]it's more or less what would happen if the EU became a united political state rather than just being fuel for the German economy as it is right now.[/QUOTE] that is pure conjecture
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52068407]that is pure conjecture[/QUOTE] [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Jewish–Roman_War[/URL] [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_Kokhba_revolt[/URL] [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Civil_War[/URL] [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_independence_referendum,_2014[/URL] [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_independence_movement[/URL] [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican–American_War[/URL] [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_referendum,_1995[/URL] All of these refer to rebellions or a vote to secede from another state strongly influenced by cultural differences. None of this is a 100% "this will happen" sort of deal, but I know for a fact that it's a very real possibility.
So you're a future teller is what you're saying? How do you know for a fact the EUs goal is to be like China? I'm not asking a very hard question
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52068528]So you're a future teller is what you're saying? How do you know for a fact the EUs goal is to be like China? I'm not asking a very hard question[/QUOTE] to put this into more understandable context: IF the EU becomes the government for Europe, then it will either be like China, or the moment shit hits the fan people will start seceding. BIG IF. I don't think that the EU doing that is likely at this time, but if it were to happen that this would occur.
[QUOTE=space1;52069560]to put this into more understandable context: IF the EU becomes the government for Europe, then it will either be like China, or the moment shit hits the fan people will start seceding. BIG IF. I don't think that the EU doing that is likely at this time, but if it were to happen that this would occur.[/QUOTE] Can you provide any evidence whatsoever that the two options you've laid out here are likely whatsoever? This is also ignoring the fact that those are [b]not[/b] the only two options. You've presented a false dichotomy.
[QUOTE=geel9;52070462]Can you provide any evidence whatsoever that the two options you've laid out here are likely whatsoever? This is also ignoring the fact that those are [b]not[/b] the only two options. You've presented a false dichotomy.[/QUOTE] If we look at pretty much any empire of the past, or the USSR (most fresh example), his "false dichotomy" is actually not too far-fetched projection.
[QUOTE=CruelAddict;52070708]If we look at pretty much any empire of the past, or the USSR (most fresh example), his "false dichotomy" is actually not too far-fetched projection.[/QUOTE] The EU has been around for half a century and it has yet to happen. The EU doesn't attempt to force an unified culture or anything like that, it's mostly an economic bloc. Germany is still very German, France is very French, and basically every single country in the EU has been allowed to keep their culture, language, heritage, national identity and national government. And there has been no signs of that ever changing other than through the proposal of an EU army, which has still yet to be approved. The truth is, the continued existence of the EU has allowed all countries within the bloc to grow enormously. It could be argued that it hasn't done as much for its poorer members, that's true, but Sweden has benefited greatly from its membership, even despite the refugee crisis.
[QUOTE=Big Bang;52070829]The EU has been around for half a century and it has yet to happen. The EU doesn't attempt to force an unified culture or anything like that, it's mostly an economic bloc. Germany is still very German, France is very French, and basically every single country in the EU has been allowed to keep their culture, language, heritage, national identity and national government. And there has been no signs of that ever changing other than through the proposal of an EU army, which has still yet to be approved. The truth is, the continued existence of the EU has allowed all countries within the bloc to grow enormously. [B]It could be argued that it hasn't done as much for its poorer members[/B], that's true, but Sweden has benefited greatly from its membership, even despite the refugee crisis.[/QUOTE] While Ireland certainly wasn't super poor when it first joined the EU, it has dramatically and almost completely transformed while part of the EU (arguably that transformation was underway as we did undergo a massive economic transformation in the 60s, but the EU certainly helped). This is not an exaggeration: we would not have motorways in Ireland without the European Union.
[QUOTE=Big Bang;52070829]The EU has been around for half a century and it has yet to happen. The EU doesn't attempt to force an unified culture or anything like that, it's mostly an economic bloc.[/QUOTE] You answered the question yourself. If EU does not push for unified governing bodies, then it is a non-issue.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52068528]So you're a future teller is what you're saying? How do you know for a fact the EUs goal is to be like China? I'm not asking a very hard question[/QUOTE] No you're just asking a very stupid one. Ever heard of the phrase 'history repeats itself'? Like he's right, there's a very distinct possibility and the fact that you'd rather ignore it for the dank snipes shows how much you really care about the topic
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;52071115]No you're just asking a very stupid one. Ever heard of the phrase 'history repeats itself'? Like he's right, there's a very distinct possibility and the fact that you'd rather ignore it for the dank snipes shows how much you really care about the topic[/QUOTE] Ha ha what. The EU's goal is in no way to be like China. There's no evidence to support this. Fuck me, the UK is leaving the EU for god's sake, and while Europe is telling them to fuck off they're not preventing them from doing it. So unless anyone has anything to back this ridiculous notion, your use of the "history repeats itself" phrase is meaningless.
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;52071115]No you're just asking a very stupid one. Ever heard of the phrase 'history repeats itself'? Like he's right, there's a very distinct possibility and the fact that you'd rather ignore it for the dank snipes shows how much you really care about the topic[/QUOTE] hey did you know that Hitler was a person? [IMG]http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/56c640526e97c625048b822a-480/donald-trump.jpg[/IMG] whoah check out history repeating itself "it happened once before under a criteria so broad it becomes functionally useless" is not an argument
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52071145]Ha ha what. The EU's goal is in no way to be like China. There's no evidence to support this. Fuck me, the UK is leaving the EU for god's sake, and while Europe is telling them to fuck off they're not preventing them from doing it. So unless anyone has anything to back this ridiculous notion, your use of the "history repeats itself" phrase is meaningless.[/QUOTE] Dude I didn't say anything to that degree other than 'history repeats itself' I don't think that the EU is going to become China but that doesn't mean in the future a more centralized Europe can't happen, and there are a lot of valid concerns people have about that idea. Humanabyss said 'oh you're a future teller now' in response to the other poster making a decent enough point and backing it up with some historical context. I don't distinctly agree with either side, but what HA said was flat out silly. [editline]7th April 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Cone;52071219]hey did you know that Hitler was a person? [IMG]http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/56c640526e97c625048b822a-480/donald-trump.jpg[/IMG] whoah check out history repeating itself "it happened once before under a criteria so broad it becomes functionally useless" is not an argument[/QUOTE] Yeah you're right citing a list of situations in which drastically different united cultures fell apart due to their distinct cultural identities in an argument about how there's a real possibility that a united Europe might fall into that same trap is comparable to saying Trump is Hitler 2.0 Keep on trying!
[QUOTE=geel9;52070462]Can you provide any evidence whatsoever that the two options you've laid out here are likely whatsoever? This is also ignoring the fact that those are [b]not[/b] the only two options. You've presented a false dichotomy.[/QUOTE] No, just by simple organization, the EU as a country would be destined to eventually fail. The Holy Roman Empire became the Confederation of the Rhine, the Roman Empire dissolved into several different states and the Byzantine empire, India became India and Pakistan, and finally Macedonia separated into 3 separate political entities.
[QUOTE=space1;52071546]No, just by simple organization, the EU as a country would be destined to eventually fail. The Holy Roman Empire became the Confederation of the Rhine, the Roman Empire dissolved into several different states and the Byzantine empire, India became India and Pakistan, and finally Macedonia separated into 3 separate political entities.[/QUOTE] this is going to be the case with the United States too using such logic (well i mean it will eventually, but still)
[QUOTE=space1;52071546]No, just by simple organization, the EU as a country would be destined to eventually fail. The Holy Roman Empire became the Confederation of the Rhine, the Roman Empire dissolved into several different states and the Byzantine empire, India became India and Pakistan, and finally Macedonia separated into 3 separate political entities.[/QUOTE] You couldn't give a worse example, those are all countries that, unlike the free association of the EU, were formed through military conquest, one of the largest reasons as to why there is an European Union. Through the EU we can avoid the thousand years of war and conquest that Europe had subjected itself to before the later half of the previous century.
[QUOTE=Big Bang;52072024]You couldn't give a worse example, those are all countries that, unlike the free association of the EU, were formed through military conquest, one of the largest reasons as to why there is an European Union. Through the EU we can avoid the thousand years of war and conquest that Europe had subjected itself to before the later half of the previous century.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=space1;52071546] India became India and Pakistan,[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;52071115]No you're just asking a very stupid one. Ever heard of the phrase 'history repeats itself'? Like he's right, there's a very distinct possibility and the fact that you'd rather ignore it for the dank snipes shows how much you really care about the topic[/QUOTE] Dank snipes? No buddy, I don't care about "dank snipes" It is a question worth asking Maybe you actually don't know me like you always act like you do
[QUOTE=Big Bang;52049891]The average Swede doesn't feel like leaving, same with how the average Swede doesn't sympathize with SD. Whichever flaws the EU has won't be fixed by leaving it, as Britain is sure to find out.[/QUOTE] A post full of assumptions.
[QUOTE=space1;52074442][/QUOTE] In case you didn't know, the reason India and Pakistan were one country in the first place was because they were formerly part of the British Raj, a colony formed through military conquest, the partition happened after independence was declared. It's an even worse example for you, because secession didn't immediately bring peace and prosperity to the two countries, the tensions between India and Pakistan are still high, and have resulted in 4 wars during the time the two have been independent. Transnational cooperation, through voluntary association, has brought us peace. [QUOTE=UK Bohemian;52075251]A post full of assumptions.[/QUOTE] A post devoid of purpose.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;52051621] I'd absolutely love having to have my [B]biannual cross-country commute home[/B] involve [B]5 border crossings[/B] and a [B]transition from the Minnesota Goose Sterling to the Texas Freedom Unit for a 5% additional charge[/B] at the [B]only convenient currency exchange[/B]. [/QUOTE] /mind shattered please elaborate on this sweden epidemic
[QUOTE=gastyne;52067935]We should have changed to euro a long time ago imo. We shouldn't have a vote to leave the eu, we should vote to get more involved.[/QUOTE] No you shouldn't switch to the euro. Like at all. Also EU politics is Byzantinean by nature so you can't get involved unless you basically sleep with somebody.
[QUOTE=Shirt.;52083303]No you shouldn't switch to the euro. Like at all. Also EU politics is Byzantinean by nature so you can't get involved unless you basically sleep with somebody.[/QUOTE] Do you have any facts to back that up, or are you even familiar with how EU works?
[QUOTE=HL_Tentacle;52083764]Do you have any facts to back that up, or are you even familiar with how EU works?[/QUOTE] [IMG]https://facepunch.com/fp/flags/us.png[/IMG]
[QUOTE=HL_Tentacle;52083764]Do you have any facts to back that up, or are you even familiar with how EU works?[/QUOTE] As per the EU political structure, do you think the common EU citizen knows the difference between the European council, the Council of the European Union, The European Commission and the Council of Ministers? Also due to each member of the EU being confederate by nature each one has its own individual political structure, which adds several more layers of complication in foreign relations because not only do you have to commune with the EU political system, you also have to do so with your current country, making it a arduous task to amend or add EU regulations unless your already in the EU system. I'd go more into detail about how the EU has over-regulated itself to the point where its GDP growth is relative to Antarctica's but i'll just skip to the Euro: The Euro first started its value as around $1.60 and since its introduction its value has gone nothing but down to the point where it is today: $1.06. Given the consistent downward trend in its value the Euro will be tossed for safer U.S. dollars once it hits around $1.03 (speculative) the euros value will collapse fucking over the Euro based economies. The U.S. is in a bad spot right now but its nowhere near as bad as the EU.
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