Boehner: Obamacare is now 'the law of the land', Republicans will abandon active repeal efforts
51 replies, posted
[QUOTE=thisispain;38380929]obamacare is far far far from ideal, i hope with this the democrats will be willing to push for a much more comprehensive and effective legislation.[/QUOTE]
Better than before, but yeah it is not ideal.
Clintonian (meaning, real) Healthcare reform should arrive within the next 2 or 3 decades.
[QUOTE=smurfy;38384690]Uh the public option was scrapped in 2009 and never made it into law[/QUOTE]
Ah, sorry. Then I am not sure what he will have to get. All I know is my household is under his insurance, so we are all affected by it. Caterpillar told the employees that it would change if it came into law, and that stinks.
Now let's get something proper. Like what Canada or Britian has.
[QUOTE=TestECull;38384978]Now let's get something proper. Like what Canada or Britian has.[/QUOTE]
I've heard that Canada's system prioritizes people poorly. I saw a documentary about how a lot of Canadians come to America for MRI's and cancer treatments because they'd have to wait so long in their own country.
[QUOTE=jptalbert;38385148]I've heard that Canada's system prioritizes people poorly. I saw a documentary about how a lot of Canadians come to America for MRI's and cancer treatments because they'd have to wait so long in their own country.[/QUOTE]
This is the downside in a system where anyone can get the treatment they need (or think they need) for free. I'm not being funny but in America people get treatment quick because a lot of people who [I]need[/I] it are avoiding it because of the cost.
Its why if you pay to go private here (in the UK) you get seen so much quicker.
[QUOTE=jptalbert;38385148]I've heard that Canada's system prioritizes people poorly. I saw a documentary about how a lot of Canadians come to America for MRI's and cancer treatments because they'd have to wait so long in their own country.[/QUOTE]
I'll take waiting over a triple to quadruple digit bill.
Our system ain't perfect here in Canada but at least getting injured here won't bankrupt you.
So this means I finally get health insurance? Nice.
[QUOTE=Coppermoss;38384527]Well, the healthcare legislation will cost my dad his "Cadillac Plan", so that is awesome, so we will have to pay more for the public option. Yay! C'est la vie en aux Etats-Unis.[/QUOTE]
Hehehehe I have no idea what Im talking about, i can use some google translated french hehehehehehe
I love how everyone is so happy for this. Happy that you are forced to buy insurance or get fined on your taxes. Yeah great system. So many people I talk to think you get free healthcare with this bill. Which tells me that most people are misinformed about what the bill really does. They will all be very upset in 2014.
[QUOTE=BrickInHead;38379234][QUOTE=Kartoffel;38364960]I actually would not be surprised if the Republicans just let Obama get what he wants. It's his final term, and there's no real use arguing with him. It will just make the Republican party look even worse, and I think they know that. Boehner stated today that the Republicans would be willing to work with the president.[/QUOTE]that's extremely unlikely. the american people have been shown time and time again to either forget about or not care about the status of the republican fillibuster, as claims that president obama "got nothing done" and that the dems "got nothing done" didn't go ignored, it's actually something that's been parroted pretty heavily in our discourse and the blame doesn't lay solely on the republicans like it should.
[editline]9th November 2012[/editline]
basically there's no reasons for republicans to let obama get what he wants
if nothing gets done that's good for them because the average american is too dumb to realize who's fault it is and is likely to look towards the president's party (even if the majority party would be the opposite) as the cause[/QUOTE]
And someone had doubts. :v:
Kartoffel: 1
BrickInHead: 0
Smugness aside, I am glad the Republicans are doing this. This is a good tactic, in doing a change like this.
[QUOTE=Sgt.Sgt;38385800]I love how everyone is so happy for this. Happy that you are forced to buy insurance or get fined on your taxes. Yeah great system. So many people I talk to think you get free healthcare with this bill. Which tells me that most people are misinformed about what the bill really does. They will all be very upset in 2014.[/QUOTE]The government cannot punish a person for not paying the fine (as stated in the text of the bill itself; it's entirely toothless) and those who can't afford it are exempt. It's a dumb thing, sure, but it's really nothing to worry about.
Something I'd like to point out, this is probably one of the first threads on facepunch where the Republicans did something and earned "Winner" ratings.
[QUOTE=bohb;38382167]Then you haven't read the law and are just regurgitating heresay.
Obamacare doesn't create free healthcare for any class in the United States, it only supposedly makes it "more affordable" at the cost of a trillion dollars of taxpayer money. In actuality it doesn't help with affordability because health insurance policies are going up from all of the crap insurance companies are now forced to provide, in addition to the yearly premium hikes policies always get.
The poorer classes in the US already have access to healthcare at the local, state and national levels, just local and state levels have historically been better since each area caters best to the population that lives in that area.
The individual mandate also forces every citizen to have an "acceptable" (undefined) insurance policy or be fined $695 or 2.5% of their income (whichever is higher, for individuals) or $2085 for families yearly. most of the poorer classes already can't afford the "more affordable" healthcare and will just be relentlessly fined with no benefit gain. This is one of the parts that piss off conservatives. Citizens of the US are protected by the constitution from being forced to purchase goods from the federal government, or forced to purchase goods that the federal government deems you must purchase. This was upheld by that cunt John Roberts on the Supreme Court because he lacks a pair.
It costs jobs because on top of the already crippling amount of tax businesses have to pay to stay in operation, they're now forced to provide insurance policies to employees. It prevents more new businesses from starting up, so you lose jobs there. It also causes more businesses to go bankrupt if they can't pass the increased costs off to the consumer.[/QUOTE]
The mandate that says you must have health insurance doesn't apply if you make anywhere under 133% of the poverty line (so you must make 33% more per year than what poverty line is, in order for the fines to start happening if you still don't have health insurance). This number could be different, I can't honestly remember the exact figure. But point is the "you must pay into health insurance or be fined" aspect of the bill only applies to people who make enough money to not be considered poor by the government.
AKA that's bullshit
The reason this is done, is because if everyone is paying into health insurance (instead of 50% of the population or less), it means the premiums go way way down, making it more affordable for poorer citizens, which in turn reduces the cost of health insurance for upper-lowerclass (who don't qualify for wellfare but also don't have tons of money) AKA people who live near poverty line, as well as reducing reliance on government welfare, something that is already accessable for people who cannot afford health insurance and is very expensive for the government to do. Not to mention the stuff that makes "health insurance more expensive in the end" translates to in reality "corruption and denying coverage due to bullshit cost-cutting measures by the insurance company balloon is now illegal"
[QUOTE=Kartoffel;38385953]Something I'd like to point out, this is probably one of the first threads on facepunch where the Republicans did something and earned "Winner" ratings.[/QUOTE]
To be honest, the recent incarnation of the republican party has been dominated by the fringe crazies, which has prevented the more moderate republicans from doing anything sensible.
For me, one of the best parts of this election is seeing that the republican party will be forced to restructure and perhaps change their platform to appeal to people who aren't white and Christian. Hopefully they might actually resemble a legitimate party after the changes.
[QUOTE=thisispain;38380929]obamacare is far far far from ideal, i hope with this the democrats will be willing to push for a much more comprehensive and effective legislation.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, it's not perfect, but it's definitely a start.
[QUOTE=Squidman;38386030]To be honest, the recent incarnation of the republican party has been dominated by the fringe crazies, which has prevented the more moderate republicans from doing anything sensible.
For me, one of the best parts of this election is seeing that the republican party will be forced to restructure and perhaps change their platform to appeal to people who aren't white and Christian. Hopefully they might actually resemble a legitimate party after the changes.[/QUOTE]
The old geezers & crazies are blaming the [I]"sensible"[/I] Republicans for watering it all down & scaring their hardcore voter base away, while the [I]"sensible"[/I] Republicans are blaming the old geezers & crazies from scaring women, minorities and the typical [I]"on-the-fence"[/I] voters away.
Hopefully this'll mean that the old geezers & crazies split away from the more sensible part, and as such the lunatics fade into the darkness.
[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;38385893]The government cannot punish a person for not paying the fine (as stated in the text of the bill itself; it's entirely toothless) and those who can't afford it are exempt. It's a dumb thing, sure, but it's really nothing to worry about.[/QUOTE]
It goes on your income taxes. They DO punish for not paying the fine. If it goes on your taxes as a fine it falls under the IRS rules for collecting fines. Interest, penalties, leans on your house, garnishing your paychecks etc.
[QUOTE=Sgt.Sgt;38386219]It goes on your income taxes. They DO punish for not paying the fine. If it goes on your taxes as a fine it falls under the IRS rules for collecting fines. Interest, penalties, leans on your house, garnishing your paychecks etc.[/QUOTE][url]http://housedocs.house.gov/energycommerce/ppacacon.pdf[/url]
[quote]‘‘(g) ADMINISTRATION AND PROCEDURE.—
‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—The penalty provided by this section
shall be paid upon notice and demand by the Secretary, and
except as provided in paragraph (2), shall be assessed and collected in the same manner as an assessable penalty under subchapter B of chapter 68.
‘‘(2) SPECIAL RULES.—Notwithstanding any other provision
of law—
‘‘(A) WAIVER OF CRIMINAL PENALTIES.—In the case of
any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to
any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such
failure.
‘‘(B) LIMITATIONS ON LIENS AND LEVIES.—The Secretary shall not—
‘‘(i) file notice of lien with respect to any property
of a taxpayer by reason of any failure to pay the penalty imposed by this section, or
‘‘(ii) levy on any such property with respect to
such failure.’’.[/quote]
if healthcare plans are called obamacare than are less taxes for corporations and the rich called romneydontcare?
The thing is, despite the bill stating that they can take no action on you for the fines...
Why do the fines exist in the first place? What's the point of creating the fines if they are non-enforceable?
Do you REALLY think for a minute that, let's say, I rack up a few years worth of fines, that the government will not come looking for that cash? Especially when thousands upon thousands of people are in the same boat? That's a lot of money the government could be getting there.
Or will they suspend my health care because of the amount of fines I have?
The bill is so vague in many places and there is a lot to wonder on it.
[QUOTE=jptalbert;38385148]I've heard that Canada's system prioritizes people poorly. I saw a documentary about how a lot of Canadians come to America for MRI's and cancer treatments because they'd have to wait so long in their own country.[/QUOTE]
No, we prioritize people well. I've been to the hospital multiple times in my life for a couple of operations and stitches. One time when I got stitches I was in and out within the hour, the other time it took around 5, as a kid who was in serious condition just came in and they needed lots of staff on it.
MRI's DO take a while, sometimes even up to 3-4 months. All of these 3-4 month cases are often non-serious, and priority cases can be done within the day. My dad waited a few months for an MRI on his leg, and it turned out that nothing was really wrong, it really just needed some rest.
Also, I have NEVER EVER heard about someone not getting cancer treatments properly in Canada. We're really good at that stuff. All of my family who had cancer was treated well by the healthcare system. My dad had a benign skin cancer tumor in his back. It was removed at our nearby walk in clinic in an hour.
[QUOTE=HkSniper;38395106]Or will they suspend my health care because of the amount of fines I have?
[/QUOTE]
You're asking if they would fine you for not having healthcare, and then suspend your healthcare because you have been fined for not having healthcare?
They can't 'suspend your healthcare' anyway, any more than they can cancel your phone contract
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