With echoes of Wounded Knee, tribes mount prairie occupation to block North Dakota pipeline
133 replies, posted
[QUOTE=duckmaster;51006225]Might may not make right morally, but the mightier person will always be right.[/QUOTE]
So hypothetically, if America were to, say, be invaded by Russia and destroyed, should we not fight back as they are the mightier power?
[QUOTE=L'Citizen;51006231]So hypothetically, if America were to, say, be invaded by Russia and destroyed, should we not fight back as they are the mightier power?[/QUOTE]
Pretty sure what he said was supposed to not be taken in a literal sense but more of "shit sucks but that's how it is kind of thing"
[QUOTE=Lawligagger;51006235]Pretty sure what he said was supposed to not be taken in a literal sense but more of "shit sucks but that's how it is kind of thing"[/QUOTE]
Basically yeah, if we fought tooth and nail but Russia won, our ass is theirs unless some comes over and topples Russia.
[QUOTE=duckmaster;51006225]Might may not make right morally, but the mightier person will always be right.[/QUOTE]
if i took my louisville to the back of your head and grabbed your wallet, would you see me off with a wave and a tear in your eye?
[QUOTE=Mining Bill;51006270]if i took my louisville to the back of your head and grabbed your wallet, would you see me off with a wave and a tear in your eye?[/QUOTE]
No, but if I'm just walking home someone jumps me with a bat and I'm on ground reeling in pain what the fuck am I gonna do about it, nothing, I'm in no way physically able to stop you from taking my wallet.
But if we lived in a reality where I saw your face and reported you to the moral protectors, you've now become the target of the moral protectors of the universe, who will enact their moral code on you with whatever force they deem necessary.
as a native american I didn't really expect the native hate in this thread but this website always does a good job of surprising me in ways i dont expect
[QUOTE=Carbon123;51006396]as a native american I didn't really expect the native hate in this thread but this website always does a good job of surprising me in ways i dont expect[/QUOTE]
Oh cool what kind? I'm Chippewa.
[QUOTE=Carbon123;51006396]as a native american I didn't really expect the native hate in this thread but this website always does a good job of surprising me in ways i dont expect[/QUOTE]
It ain't much but I've got a little bit of Keetoowah Cherokee in me, and I have a massive amount of respect for the Native peoples. The disrespect in this thread is astounding.
[QUOTE=L'Citizen;51006654]It ain't much but I've got a little bit of Keetoowah Cherokee in me, and I have a massive amount of respect for the Native peoples. The disrespect in this thread is astounding.[/QUOTE]
I wasn't aware of how out and out racist people were against native americans, it's kinda surprising :v:
like, shit, man, can't you leave them anything?
[QUOTE=L'Citizen;51006654]It ain't much but I've got a little bit of Keetoowah Cherokee in me, and I have a massive amount of respect for the Native peoples. The disrespect in this thread is astounding.[/QUOTE]
Yeah I kinda felt a bit bummed out about the whole sjw whiny indian thing
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;50965100]Go back to school[/QUOTE]
I don't need no fancy book learnin! I was home schooled!
[editline]5th September 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lawligagger;51006418]Oh cool what kind? I'm Chippewa.[/QUOTE]
Sure you are go back under your bridge.
[editline]5th September 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Arc Nova;51005343]Pretty much this. In Nova Scotia Canada if you're native the perks are insane, not only are you guaranteed free schooling and money from the government you are also allowed to fish and hunt out of season, you don't pay nearly as much taxes (if it all) and cigarettes are cheap as hell.
even with all those benefits, poverty and alcoholism run rampant along with drug addiction. And it's been like that for decades now.[/QUOTE]
They need to get rid of the reserves and just send them a check in the mail every month and have them live with everybody else.
[editline]5th September 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE]
That is not SJW bullshit, that is people protesting since this pipeline has too many risks to the environment[/QUOTE]
Would you rather have them transport the oil by rail which would be an even bigger environmental disaster if a train happened to derail?
[editline]5th September 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Arc Nova;51005301]Coming from Canada, it's really strange to hear that Native Americans are still called Indians down in America[/QUOTE]
I agree we mostly call them Natives,aboriginals or first nations here. Although I've seen some older natives that still call themselves Indians in Canada before kind of like older black people calling themselves negro still.
[editline]5th September 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=sgman91;50965109]I think it's hard for people to understand how terrible reservations are as a result of the decisions made by the actual tribe if they haven't visited them.[/QUOTE]
I don't agree with the other things you said but you hit the nail on the head on this one point.
[QUOTE=Snake7;51005858]You do realize that forcing them to give up their heritage and identity is basically a form of soft genocide?
You sound like those people that forced native children to go to schools where they would be punished for speaking their own language and forced to assimilate.
This whole thread is a shitshow of racists blaming Native Americans for the problems caused by the American goverment and society.[/QUOTE]
i guess giving them a choice one way or the other, change nothing or take this money and good education is indeed genocide.
I must be a genocidal maniac for wanting every child in the world to have a proper education.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;51006594]It does on the grand scale. If you have the ability to project power, then you have the ability to inflict said power on others. If you don't, then you have no power.
In the absolute grand scheme of things, might makes right. Whether it is moral or not is an entirely different story. But just remember, the victor makes the history books.
[editline]5th September 2016[/editline]
How is the land "theirs" if it's been occupied by a superior force? You can lay claim to land all you want, if you lack the means to protect the land and enforce the boarders you claim as yours, then it doesn't matter what claims you could have possibly made.
Look, shit sucks. It really does. But to sit back and say "BUT ITS THEIRS" isn't right in the slightest. It WAS theirs, until a technologically and numerically superior force came along and took it.[/QUOTE]
glad to hear that in 10,000 years of civilisation we still haven't managed to progress beyond this tribalistic, warmongering mindset.
[QUOTE=Worstcase;50964720]The only thing that will result in is people getting shot. If the natives want to win this they'll have to appeal to a court and have them rule in their favor.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but in the US and Canada any land claim, even if legally legitimate, made by Native Peoples is mothballed and put on hold indefinitely to avoid having to address it. Not officially, of course. The legal system just seems to come up with lots and lots of convenient excuses. There are some cases in Canada that have been ongoing for nearly half a century.
So when a population has been disenfranchised, shit on by society, and don't even have legal recourse to right the wrongs done to them, if violence is the only option left, then and only then can I say that I don't fault them for it.
[QUOTE=Blizzerd;51007465]I must be a genocidal maniac for wanting every child in the world to have a proper education.[/QUOTE]
You want to erase their culture and their identity under the guise of civilizing the savages, completely ignoring the fact that our government is the reason they are in such bad shape in the first place.
If we were to offer them education at the cost of their cultural identity, the implication is that we would simply be finishing what we started 400 years ago: the annihilation of the native populace.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;51007592]You want to erase their culture and their identity under the guise of civilizing the savages, completely ignoring the fact that our government is the reason they are in such bad shape in the first place.
If we were to offer them education at the cost of their cultural identity, the implication is that we would simply be finishing what we started 400 years ago: the annihilation of the native populace.[/QUOTE]
i dont want to do either of those things, strawman.
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;51007468]glad to hear that in 10,000 years of civilisation we still haven't managed to progress beyond this tribalistic, warmongering mindset.[/QUOTE]
This is the way human civilization works. Do you think the world would be a better place if America was confined to the Eastern territories and just left the Natives alone for the rest of human history? Moreover, do you think that if America hadn't conquered the Natives, nobody else would have? The way Natives were treated during colonial expansion was abhorrent and rightfully remembered as such, but the idea that America's expansion into Native territory is basically the worst thing to happen in history is just plain stupid. The technology you use to write this complaint about our "tribalistic, warmongering mindset" was developed only as a result of the existence of a technologically advanced civilization that was founded on land stolen from Native Americans.
[QUOTE=Blizzerd;51007602]i dont want to do either of those things, strawman.[/QUOTE]
First of all, what you're suggesting falls under the banner of ethnic cleansing because its objective is to destroy a certain culture. Look it up.
Secondly, anyone with the most basic knowledge of history knows why this idea wouldn't work. I'll give you two words to look up in a Native American context: Residential schools.
[QUOTE=coldroll5;51006802]Sure you are go back under your bridge.
[/QUOTE]
oh
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saginaw_Chippewa_Tribal_Nation[/url]
[QUOTE=srobins;51007606]This is the way human civilization works. Do you think the world would be a better place if America was confined to the Eastern territories and just left the Natives alone for the rest of human history? Moreover, do you think that if America hadn't conquered the Natives, nobody else would have? The way Natives were treated during colonial expansion was abhorrent and rightfully remembered as such, but the idea that America's expansion into Native territory is basically the worst thing to happen in history is just plain stupid. The technology you use to write this complaint about our "tribalistic, warmongering mindset" was developed only as a result of the existence of a technologically advanced civilization that was founded on land stolen from Native Americans.[/QUOTE]
i'm not exactly sure how developing the internet was only made possible by shooting the injuns but whatever floats your boat man. the printing press was invented without needing to kill people but i guess that doesn't count since it was made in a town stolen by early germans or something
i'm also not sure how like this justifies continued dreadful policies but i guess you're right. that is the way it /is/, nobody gives much care to the /ought/ side of things
[editline]6th September 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;51006594]How is the land "theirs" if it's been occupied by a superior force? You can lay claim to land all you want, if you lack the means to protect the land and enforce the boarders you claim as yours, then it doesn't matter what claims you could have possibly made.
Look, shit sucks. It really does. But to sit back and say "BUT ITS THEIRS" isn't right in the slightest. It WAS theirs, until a technologically and numerically superior force came along and took it.[/QUOTE]
lets hope for your sake that a numerically (probably china) and technologically (probably china in a century) superior civilisation treats you more kindly than the philosophy you use to justify continued mistreatment of human beings
[editline]6th September 2016[/editline]
i mean the people here using the "might equals right" philosophy, i mean who cares if somebody invades and takes over your country. you should stop being americans and start becoming chinese because you lost and it's only fair that you give up your old culture and language.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;51008186]I'm sure that if they chose to invade (they wouldn't) and wage the style war that we waged against the indians (they wouldn't) then eventually "american culture" wouldn't exist anymore.[/QUOTE]
"american culture" being lost, i presume that you don't hold a very high regard for it?
nonetheless a lot of americans do care about preserving basic american values, culture, beliefs, whatever they may be (from constitutional amendments to apple pies), and a lot of amerindians still feel strongly about losing their cultural, religious, and linguistic traditions in the face of modern mistreatment.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;51008278]You mean a culture of ridiculous excess and "pick yourself up by your bootstraps"? No, not particularly. A culture that's become so polarized that even bringing up a sensitive topic causes riots?[/QUOTE]
You don't like American culture so it's okay to erase the Native's culture. That's what you're implying.
Giving a small update from someone in North Dakota... Shit is getting heated fast. National Guard was activated, and every PD in the state is racing to Bismarck-Mandan. On top of this, every cellphone in North Dakota right now is getting flashed with a warning saying that almost all major roads heading to Standing Rock are on immediate lockdown for what has been deemed an immediate/extreme threat to life and property.
[QUOTE=Blizzerd;51007465]i guess giving them a choice one way or the other, change nothing or take this money and good education is indeed genocide.
I must be a genocidal maniac for wanting every child in the world to have a proper education.[/QUOTE]
Um, yes, forcing people to abandon their cultural or spiritual identity in order to make use of public services is cultural genocide. Cultural genocide is just genocide without the body count. You are advocating genocide.
[editline]9th September 2016[/editline]
Like, how the hell do you even feel justified in concluding that this culture needs to be forced into extinction when you literally don't know the first fucking thing about it? You were completely unaware of the forced adoption programs of the fifties, one of the most disgusting chapters of US history (right up there with Japanese Internment camps and slavery) and its impact, and yet you feel comfortable enough to conclude that we should quietly force natives to abandon their cultural identities?
[editline]/[/editline]
Fuck it; you're gone. Zero tolerance policy for genocide.
regardless of whether you feel like "they aren't even using their land!!" It's still their land
gives you no right to drill through it regardless of whatever you think, however you think they're using it wrong
never did i see so many racists come out at once
how about i dig a big fucking hole in your front yard
snip
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[QUOTE=space1;51235772]The Native Americans just need their own country, tbh.[/QUOTE]
why post
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I'd rather take economical development than a conquered people's designated role play zone.
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