Anti-Muslim ads appear on buses in San Francisco, California: "Killing Jews is worship that brings u
79 replies, posted
[quote]San Francisco officials have condemned the campaign, but [B]they have allowed them to run[/B].[/quote]
Freedom of expression, meet the state-permitted commercialization of racial hatred.
[QUOTE]but they have allowed them to run.[/QUOTE]
This is literally hate speech how could they allow this to run
[QUOTE=KingdomBanned;39916222]This is literally hate speech how could they allow this to run[/QUOTE]
Because otherwise we'd be one step away from godless communism and/or muslims.
[img]http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdgf37VtWo1rr7cigo1_500.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Septimas;39915300]Why can't people just understand that other's beliefs will be different from theres, and accept that difference is a part of life.
uhg.[/QUOTE]
Because some of those people are religious!!!
/sarcasm
[QUOTE=KingdomBanned;39916222]This is literally hate speech how could they allow this to run[/QUOTE]
Hate speech is legal in America.
[editline]14th March 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=NoDachi;39916236]Because otherwise we'd be one step away from godless communism and/or muslims.
[img]http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdgf37VtWo1rr7cigo1_500.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
I don't see much difference in the ads against Muslims and your picture against Americans, it's quite offensive.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;39916333]I don't see much difference in the ads against Muslims and your picture against Americans, it's quite offensive.[/QUOTE]
Its just attacking the justification 'muh freedoms'.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;39916333]Hate speech is legal in America.
[editline]14th March 2013[/editline]
I don't see much difference in the ads against Muslims and your picture against Americans, it's quite offensive.[/QUOTE]
Key difference - One is a joke posted by an individual on an internet forum, one is hate speech permitted to be displayed on public transportation by the State of San Francisco.
Passiveness is the same as complicity in this case.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;39916236]Because otherwise we'd be one step away from godless communism and/or muslims.
[img]http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdgf37VtWo1rr7cigo1_500.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
There's a difference between using a running gag and posting said gag in the middle of quite a hot topic
By all means post AMURRICANS AR DUM LOL but keep it out of the news threads
[QUOTE=Sir M;39916425]By all means post AMURRICANS AR DUM LOL but keep it out of the news threads[/QUOTE]
Not what it means.
But its funny how defensive you get over this one image on a forum, but not even a measured reaction about an entire hate campaign. Suits you sir.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;39916236]Because otherwise we'd be one step away from godless communism and/or muslims.
[img]http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdgf37VtWo1rr7cigo1_500.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
sry 4 believin in human dignity
[QUOTE=NoDachi;39916400]Its just attacking the justification 'muh freedoms'.[/QUOTE]
But it is literally written into our law that we are allowed to say as we please so long as it doesn't infringe upon the rights of others.
It isn't a justification, it's a law.
[QUOTE=Fish_poke;39916497]But it is literally written into our law that we are allowed to say as we please so long as it doesn't infringe upon the rights of others.
It isn't a justification, it's a law.[/QUOTE]
It should also be a right in your country to live free from harrassment or discrimination, especially when it is unprovoked.
[QUOTE=archangel125;39916586]It should also be a right in your country to live free from harrassment or discrimination, especially when it is unprovoked.[/QUOTE]
you either have the freedom to speak freely, or freedom to be comfortable.
which is more important?
[QUOTE=yawmwen;39916595]you either have the freedom to speak freely, or freedom to be comfortable.
which is more important?[/QUOTE]
How about we have the freedom to speak freely, except for hate speech
everyone wins
[QUOTE=archangel125;39916586]It should also be a right in your country to live free from harrassment or discrimination, especially when it is unprovoked.[/QUOTE]
Eh, whether it should or shouldn't be is a matter of ideology, but the point is, it's not that way here. We're all thankful that we have the right to be offended.
[QUOTE=KingdomBanned;39916602]How about we have the freedom to speak freely, except for hate speech
everyone wins[/QUOTE]
I personally think it's all or nothing. Censorship is the worst thing that's ever happened in the history of communication.
[QUOTE=archangel125;39916586]It should also be a right in your country to live free from harrassment or discrimination, especially when it is unprovoked.[/QUOTE]
Regardless of whether we had laws for that, it would still happen. You can't stop discrimination or harassment, no matter how hard you try. And besides, if people ACTED on the things they said, it'd be a whole different story.
[QUOTE=J Paul;39916608]Eh, whether it should or shouldn't be is a matter of ideology, but the point is, it's not that way here. We're all thankful that we have the right to be offended.
I personally think it's all or nothing. Censorship is the worst thing that's ever happened in the history of communication.[/QUOTE]
I personally disagree. If one has something to say, one should be able to frame it in a manner that does not incite hatred, and to present a legitimate argument instead of rambling rhetoric. If one's argument is so weak that it can't do that, then it's not worth hearing.
[QUOTE=archangel125;39916657]I personally disagree. If one has something to say, one should be able to frame it in a manner that does not incite hatred, and to present a legitimate argument instead of rambling rhetoric. If one's argument is so weak that it can't do that, then it's not worth hearing.[/QUOTE]
It's not like these people will do anything. They're recognized as being on the same level as PETA and the KKK, so nobody pays attention.
[QUOTE=Fish_poke;39916609]Regardless of whether we had laws for that, it would still happen. You can't stop discrimination or harassment, no matter how hard you try. And besides, if people ACTED on the things they said, it'd be a whole different story.[/QUOTE]
The difference is that a law that recognized such things as harrassment would make scum of the Earth like the American Freedom Defense Initiative think twice about how they send their message.
[quote]
San Francisco officials have condemned the campaign, but they have allowed them to run. The $5,000 the group paid to Muni will go to the Human Rights Commission to study discrimination against the Islamic community, according to the city.
[/quote]
love that little bit there, so the guys who put up the hateboards are also funding research on discrimination against the group they are hating....
These fuckers don't understand the meaning of Jihad. They totally ignored the message behind the original signs. Good god (not intended), I wonder if they have a healthy brain cell between them.
i live in a state that is half bible thumping and half who-gives-a-shit, more specificly i LIVE in the latter, and go to college in the former, so i pass boards everytime i go home or back to school proclaiming jesus wants us to obey, or the lord damns gays, not really making me want to go and beatup homosexuals anytime soon, still i guess i would find it annoying if someone put up something like this about me....
[QUOTE=Sableye;39916694]i live in a state that is half bible thumping and half who-gives-a-shit, more specificly i LIVE in the latter, and go to college in the former, so i pass boards everytime i go home or back to school proclaiming jesus wants us to obey, or the lord damns gays, not really making me want to go and beatup homosexuals anytime soon, still i guess i would find it annoying if someone put up something like this about me....[/QUOTE]
Are you gay?
[QUOTE=KingdomBanned;39916602]How about we have the freedom to speak freely, except for hate speech
everyone wins[/QUOTE]
except for minorities.
[editline]15th March 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=archangel125;39916657]I personally disagree. If one has something to say, one should be able to frame it in a manner that does not incite hatred, and to present a legitimate argument instead of rambling rhetoric. If one's argument is so weak that it can't do that, then it's not worth hearing.[/QUOTE]
is there an objective set of rules you can put forward that defines "legitimate argument" or "rambling rhetoric" or is this all different depending on the listener?
[QUOTE=archangel125;39916657]I personally disagree. If one has something to say, one should be able to frame it in a manner that does not incite hatred, and to present a legitimate argument instead of rambling rhetoric. If one's argument is so weak that it can't do that, then it's not worth hearing.[/QUOTE]
I understand your position, but my personal belief is that even the most rude, ridiculous, venomous things should absolutely be said. I believe we should let those things be said the loudest, because it's only through public discourse that their ridiculousness becomes obvious to everyone. I might be wrong about that, but that's how I feel. When someone says some racist shit in the privacy of their own home where there's no-one there to dispute it, think about how that can influence the kids who might not know any better and rely on the adults around them for guidance. It still happens, it just doesn't happen in public as much because politically correct thinking has driven most people to silence for fear of being sued or losing their job. If we encouraged people to say what's really on their mind regardless of how ridiculous or terrible it is, I'm sure a lot of evil would at least be exposed, which is a step in the right direction. This is what you sacrifice when you hush up everyone to ensure that nobody is made to feel uncomfortable.
That, and the fact that if you're offended by something that someone has said, that's your own personal problem. Words don't mean anything until you interpret them, logical people should be able to deal with words no matter how harsh. It's that whole "if you don't want to watch, change the channel" argument, which I can easily understand if you don't agree with that, but that is the general ideology behind our freedom of expression. Sure, it can be used to justify saying some terrible things, but we think it works for our greater good.
[QUOTE=Sableye;39916694]i live in a state that is half bible thumping and half who-gives-a-shit, more specificly i LIVE in the latter, and go to college in the former, so i pass boards everytime i go home or back to school proclaiming jesus wants us to obey, or the lord damns gays, not really making me want to go and beatup homosexuals anytime soon, still i guess i would find it annoying if someone put up something like this about me....[/QUOTE]
Yeah I live in a ridiculous place as well, I remember seeing lots of campaign signs in people's lawns recently that simply said "VOTE THE BIBLE" with a candidates' name under that text. I'm sure it had something to do with gays or abortion or whatever.
But no matter how ridiculous these people are, they should be able to express whatever stupid opinion they have or the entire idea of free speech is a sham.
[QUOTE=J Paul;39916777]I understand your position, but my personal belief is that even the most rude, ridiculous, venomous things should absolutely be said. I believe we should let those things be said the loudest, because it's only through public discourse that their ridiculousness becomes obvious to everyone. When someone says some racist shit in the privacy of their own home where there's no-one there to dispute it, think about how that can influence the kids who might not know any better and rely on the adults around them for guidance. It still happens, it just doesn't happen in public as much because politically correct thinking has driven most people to silence for fear of being sued or losing their job. If we encouraged people to say what's really on their mind regardless of how ridiculous or terrible it is, I'm sure a lot of evil would at least be exposed, which is a step in the right direction. This is what you sacrifice when you hush up everyone to ensure that nobody is made to feel uncomfortable.
That, and the fact that if you're offended by something that someone has said, that's your own personal problem. Words don't mean anything until you interpret them, logical people should be able to deal with words no matter how harsh. It's that whole "if you don't want to watch, change the channel" argument, which I can easily understand if you don't agree with that, but that is the general ideology behind our freedom of expression. Sure, it can be used to justify saying some terrible things, but we think it works for our greater good.[/QUOTE]
people also need to realize that when someone criticizes you for your shitty free speech that's bigoted that they are not against free speech nor are they censoring you in any way
[QUOTE=Shadaez;39916823]people also need to realize that when someone criticizes you for your shitty free speech that's bigoted that they are not against free speech nor are they censoring you in any way[/QUOTE]
But people are literally saying we should regulate free speech. That's not free speech then.
[QUOTE=Shadaez;39916823]people also need to realize that when someone criticizes you for your shitty free speech that's bigoted that they are not against free speech nor are they censoring you in any way[/QUOTE]
i think it's our responsibility to call out and attack bigoted speech.
just don't use the legal system to regulate it.
[QUOTE=Shadaez;39916823]people also need to realize that when someone criticizes you for your shitty free speech that's bigoted that they are not against free speech nor are they censoring you in any way[/QUOTE]
Absolutely, but there are people out there who really do seek to censor the speech of others. You're right, it's not always the case, in fact it's not even all that common, but there are people out there who call for the censorship of lots of things and that's something that should be addressed seriously. I believe that the ads are terrible and ridiculous, but if someone paid for them and the company that runs the buses is fine with taking their money, along with whatever public criticism they might receive from that decision, then there's no wrong being done here.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;39916236]Because otherwise we'd be one step away from godless communism and/or muslims.
[img]http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdgf37VtWo1rr7cigo1_500.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
Your picture is misleading because it assumes that I am not stuffing burgers into my face [I][B]before [/B][/I]actually saying that.
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