Shooting reported at Purdue University, IN. One injured, suspect in custody.
204 replies, posted
People defending school shootings, wow. Even if its a targeted attack there its still a gun around students, it's unpredictable what can happen.
New Zealand's only school shooting was in 1923
[QUOTE=NoDachi;43623776]which is cheap
Considering a Syrian rebel expects to pay $2000+ for his AK.[/QUOTE]
Got a source? The whole reason the AK is the most prolific rifle is because it costs a chicken to buy one.
[QUOTE=darunner;43623752]My 4 guns are total worth about $3500
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/uOcDVf0h.jpg[/IMG]
[/QUOTE]
Something about posting your guns in a school shooting news thread seems horribly wrong to me
[QUOTE=darunner;43623752]The Arapahoe High School shooter killed himself when he was cornered by a school resource office (cop) with a gun.[/QUOTE]
We're not arguing that people with guns can stop shooters and other criminals, it's true, and it's great that the cop stopped the shooter, but wouldn't it have been better if the shooting was prevented altogether?
[QUOTE=Mbbird;43623731]where's the part where everyone remembers that the US's population is equal to half of Europe.
[editline]21st January 2014[/editline]
Ughhhhhhhhh
people posting Penn & Teller to argue something unironically.[/QUOTE]
I'm not asking you to watch the full video, i'm asking you watch a specific part in which a woman had a gun ( in her car) and watched as a man killed 22 people in a restaurant. If she had her handgun on her she could have stopped him.
America has too many guns that a weapon ban can stop.
Sure maybe if they did it like 50-60 years ago we might not have this problem, but the fact is this they didn't, only now after tragedies are people wanting bans.
If your in favor a weapons ban, you are in favor off putting weapons away from the hands of law abiding citizens, and into the hands of criminals who do not care for the law. If someones wants a product, they will get that product no matter what the law says.
[QUOTE=darunner;43623752]My 4 guns are total worth about $3500
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/uOcDVf0h.jpg[/IMG]
[/QUOTE]
Supreme jelly at those pristine( at least the wood) condition M1's if i had expendable money my first purchase would be one of those historic rifles.
[QUOTE=counterpo0;43623926]weapon ban [/QUOTE]
Again: who the hell said anything about banning all guns?
(ok fuck, nodachi just did, but my point still stands, not sure why you'd assume that)
[QUOTE=counterpo0;43623926]If your in favor a weapons ban, you are in favor off putting weapons away from the hands of law abiding citizens, and into the hands of criminals who do not care for the law. If someones wants a product, they will get that product no matter what the law says.[/QUOTE]
riddle me this
why doesn't this happen in any other western countries that have banned firearms?
[QUOTE=counterpo0;43623926]I'm not asking you to watch the full video, i'm asking you watch a specific part in which a woman had a gun ( in her car) and watched as a man killed 22 people in a restaurant. If she had her handgun on her she could have stopped him.
America has too many guns that a weapon ban can stop.
Sure maybe if they did it like 50-60 years ago we might not have this problem, but the fact is this they didn't, only now after tragedies are people wanting bans.
If your in favor a weapons ban, you are in favor off putting weapons away from the hands of law abiding citizens, and into the hands of criminals who do not care for the law. If someones wants a product, they will get that product no matter what the law says.
[/QUOTE]
No I'm not even sure of as to what side you really take, the simple fact is that Penn & Teller were paid to be terribly biased assholes about everything, and it's not a secret to anyone involved. They're for entertainment, not debates.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;43624032]"America has too many guns that a weapon ban can stop.
Sure maybe if they did it like 50-60 years ago we might not have this problem, but the fact is this they didn't, only now after tragedies are people wanting bans."[/QUOTE]
but if factories don't make guns then the amount of guns in circulation drops over time
[QUOTE=counterpo0;43623926]If she had her handgun on her she could have stopped him. [/QUOTE]
What's up with America's obsession with taking the law into your own hands? Sure, she could've stopped him before he killed any more people, but good regulation laws could've prevented him from even getting a gun. Is the satisfaction of being able to own guns and stop criminals by yourself really worth the risk of giving everyone the ease of access to a device that was created to kill people?
As for the "but dedicated criminals will still get their hands on guns"- So? They're able to do it in every other country, that doesn't mean anything. Not to mention, [i]not everyone is a dedicated criminal[/i]. Sure, bank robbers might still end up getting their hands on weapons, but what about the guy who decides to kill his wife because he caught her cheating? Or the emotionally unstable kid who gets mad at the school bullies and brings a gun to class the next day?
Example here, there was that one case, in Detroit I believe, where a woman knocked on this guy's door to ask for information late at night, and as she turned away the guy blasted her with a shotgun. The guy was clearly a nutjob, but if he didn't have a gun, would he still have tried to kill her? If he did, he wouldn't have done it at the pull of a trigger. Guns are a device that enables you to take someone's life with ease, and I don't believe that's the kind of power anyone should have. The ease of access only makes it worse.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;43623965]riddle me this
why doesn't this happen in any other western countries that have banned firearms?[/QUOTE]
It doesn't happen because they banned guns earlier on, and I won't speak for everyone but [I]I[/I] recognize that. However, it simply would not be that easy in the US, due to the proliferation, culture, and the fact that it would not be within the government's bounds to up and confiscate guns, to name a few reasons. If our government tried to do a door-to-door confiscation, lots of people on both sides would die. There's lots of good arguments and evidence to support both sides, the fact is that nobody (in power) wants a middle ground.
[QUOTE=Ekalektik_1;43624231]It doesn't happen because they banned guns earlier on, and I won't speak for everyone but [I]I[/I] recognize that. However, it simply would not be that easy in the US, due to the proliferation, culture, and the fact that it would not be within the government's bounds to up and confiscate guns, to name a few reasons. If our government tried to do a door-to-door confiscation, lots of people on both sides would die. There's lots of good arguments and evidence to support both sides, the fact is that nobody (in power) wants a middle ground.[/QUOTE]
And why do you think there's only one way to do it? You don't need to do a door-to-door confiscaton program to get guns out of circulation.
[editline]22nd January 2014[/editline]
Stopping/reducing the production of guns would already be a huge step forward. You can also have programs where the government will pay you for guns you turn in, we had one like that in Brazil a while ago.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;43624049]but if factories don't make guns then the amount of guns in circulation drops over time[/QUOTE]
[video=youtube;Mxtu228bYFw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mxtu228bYFw[/video]
Skip to 2:49
[editline]21st January 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=NoDachi;43623965]riddle me this
why doesn't this happen in any other western countries that have banned firearms?[/QUOTE]
Like Mexico?
I don't know how I should feel every time I come into a thread like this (which in itself has become depressing) and it's a huge shit storm on guns. And the worst part it the conversation generally forgets about the article the thread is about and becomes 5 pages of people trying to convince people on their opinion which we all know will never happen.
And you know what the worse thing is, I've already done the same thing I just complained about, twice.
[QUOTE=darunner;43624373]Like Mexico?[/QUOTE]
Thanks for reminding me.
70% of the guns used in Mexico are smuggled in from the USA.
I'm sure their entire country would appreciate it too.
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;43624348]And why do you think there's only one way to do it? You don't need to do a door-to-door confiscaton program to get guns out of circulation.
[editline]22nd January 2014[/editline]
Stopping/reducing the production of guns would already be a huge step forward. You can also have programs where the government will pay you for guns you turn in, we had one like that in Brazil a while ago.[/QUOTE]
Buybacks won't ever get every gun, there's lots of people who wouldn't turn them in simply for sentimental or historical value. It's also important to think about where you'd want to focus your buyback programs. Trying to rid rural areas of privately-owned firearms is utterly asinine for lots of reasons, one being because out here the police response time is low and they can't help with everything. You can hardly call the cops to help you with a pest or predator problem.
I think what people don't seem to think about, and I don't mean this in a derogatory way, is that there is no solution that is both quick and practical. Quick solutions get the likes of an "assault weapons ban" which is literally worthless, and practical ones are either perceived to take too long to be worthwhile or cut into somebody's profits. Or both.
you don't need every gun
that is a stupid goalpost that people like you throw up
"it wont happen overnight"
"you wont get every one"
the UK still has lots of guns but very little gun crime
[QUOTE=NoDachi;43624587]you don't need every gun
that is a stupid goalpost that people like you throw up
"it wont happen overnight"
"you wont get every one"
the UK still has lots of guns but very little gun crime[/QUOTE]
It's true, the UK has very little gun crime, but given its population relative to the US, it has an [I]absolutely bonkers[/I] amount of crime in general. The UK is not a country anyone should look up to in that respect.
[QUOTE=Mbbird;43624625]It's true, the UK has very little gun crime, but given its population relative to the US, it has an absolutely bonkers amount of crime in general. The UK is not a country anyone should look up to in that respect.[/QUOTE]
I'd take my chances with being punched on a night out rather than the 3x homicide rate of america.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;43624554]Thanks for reminding me.
70% of the guns used in Mexico are smuggled in from the USA.
I'm sure their entire country would appreciate it too.[/QUOTE]
Actually, no. [URL="http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key=3ad1bf2b4677ef5b1015b62984007e28&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.huffingtonpost.com%2F2011%2F06%2F14%2Fmexico-drug-war-seized-guns_n_876653.html%23conversation-876653-92535548&v=1&libId=9d5794ca-10a3-4578-96f9-736d05ecdd14&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eluniversal.com.mx%2Fnacion%2F185628.html&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.huffingtonpost.com%2F2011%2F06%2F14%2Fmexico-drug-war-seized-guns_n_876653.html&title=Mexico%20Drug%20War%3A%2070%20Percent%20Of%20Guns%20Seized%20Originate%20In%20U.S.&txt=www.eluniversal.com.mx%2Fnacion%2F185628.html&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13903534242358"]The Mexican Secretary of Defense said 129,200 guns were seized between 2009 and 2010.[/URL] Of those, Mexico submitted 29,284 to the US BATFE for tracing. From those, 20,504 have been in the US at some point. Approximately 1,500 guns were allowed to illegally be taken across the border by the US government. That leaves us with 19,004 guns that were otherwise taken from the US to the hands of the cartels in Mexico. Again, that includes the guns our government sold theirs. That's closer to 15% of guns originating in the US.
[QUOTE=darunner;43624682]Actually, no. [URL="http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key=3ad1bf2b4677ef5b1015b62984007e28&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.huffingtonpost.com%2F2011%2F06%2F14%2Fmexico-drug-war-seized-guns_n_876653.html%23conversation-876653-92535548&v=1&libId=9d5794ca-10a3-4578-96f9-736d05ecdd14&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eluniversal.com.mx%2Fnacion%2F185628.html&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.huffingtonpost.com%2F2011%2F06%2F14%2Fmexico-drug-war-seized-guns_n_876653.html&title=Mexico%20Drug%20War%3A%2070%20Percent%20Of%20Guns%20Seized%20Originate%20In%20U.S.&txt=www.eluniversal.com.mx%2Fnacion%2F185628.html&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13903534242358"]The Mexican Secretary of Defense said 129,200 guns were seized between 2009 and 2010.[/URL] Of those, Mexico submitted 29,284 to the US BATFE for tracing. From those, 20,504 have been in the US at some point. Approximately 1,500 guns were allowed to illegally be taken across the border by the US government. That leaves us with 19,004 guns that were otherwise taken from the US to the hands of the cartels in Mexico. Again, that includes the guns our government sold theirs. That's closer to 15% of guns originating in the US.[/QUOTE]
actually yes
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-20825061[/url]
[QUOTE=Mbbird;43624625]It's true, the UK has very little gun crime, but given its population relative to the US, it has an [I]absolutely bonkers[/I] amount of crime in general. The UK is not a country anyone should look up to in that respect.[/QUOTE]
I'll never understand this arguement.
"You've got far worse gun crime then us"
"Yeah well you've got a huge amount of violent crimes"
It's not the same thing, getting into a fist fight isn't the same as getting shot at. Hell in the worse situation I'd probably rather be stabbed then be shot.
[QUOTE=slamex;43624702]I'll never understand this arguement.
"You've got far worse gun crime then us"
"Yeah well you've got a huge amount of violent crimes"
It's not the same thing, getting into a fist fight isn't the same as getting shot at. Hell in the worse situation I'd probably rather be stabbed then be shot.[/QUOTE]
Different cultures. I won't pretend to be an expert but I know for a fact having done a few reports on this shit (never again) that the numbers can't prove much on their own.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;43624695]actually yes
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-20825061[/url][/QUOTE]
That article cites the same report I just debunked.
did pen and teller debunk it lmao
[QUOTE=NoDachi;43624587]you don't need every gun
that is a stupid goalpost that people like you throw up
"it wont happen overnight"
"you wont get every one"
the UK still has lots of guns but very little gun crime[/QUOTE]
Actually, I got the "every last one" goalpost from a number of other anti-gun people not just on this forum but from people I actually know. I think I may have overreacted a little bit back there, and actually I think that underlines the problem with this whole debate quite nicely. Both sides jump to their most drastic scenarios so you get two extremes fighting each other.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;43624752]did pen and teller debunk it lmao[/QUOTE]
Did you translate the link I put two posts back lmao
[QUOTE=darunner;43624798]Did you translate the link I put two posts back lmao[/QUOTE]
I think I'd trust the BBC over some random webpage that you can't provide an english source for.
Especially if that BBC article already covers your apparent 'debunk'
[QUOTE=NoDachi;43624832]I think I'd trust the BBC over some random webpage that you can't provide an english source for.
Especially if that BBC article already covers your apparent 'debunk'[/QUOTE]
Because the BBC has never gotten it wrong before.
[video=youtube;zWAvHnfJsOQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWAvHnfJsOQ[/video]
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.