[QUOTE=Explosions;44132411]The U.S. was recognized by multiple world powers and successfully conducted a revolution and ousted the British.[/QUOTE]
Recognised by multiple powers at war with the united kingdom, but what does international politics have to do with legitimising your own claim to independence?
The only thing to be concerned about is Russia and Crimea suppressing the Ukrainian minority in Crimea.
I wonder what those soldiers are going to do. They must feel so torn.
[QUOTE=SeamanStains;44132779]Recognised by multiple powers at war with the united kingdom, but what does international politics have to do with legitimising your own claim to independence?
The only thing to be concerned about is Russia and Crimea suppressing the Ukrainian minority in Crimea.[/QUOTE]
Recognition has everything to do with legitimacy. If Spain, France, the Netherlands, and other world powers started recognizing Crimea as independent then how would it not be legitimate?
[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;44131578][B]Just because a load of people decided overnight they would rather be a part of Russia doesn't mean Russia has the right to dump a load of soldiers into the region. [/B]It is Ukrainian land and the Ukrainian military shouldn't have to pull out of their own land because Russia wants to bully them out of it.
This is a totally medieval way of taking territory, just occupying a region until everyone agrees its yours now, the world shouldn't work like that anymore.
[editline]5th March 2014[/editline]
Sure hold a referendum but only after Russia withdraws its soldiers, let the people decide what they want without gangs of Russian soldiers patrolling the streets.[/QUOTE]
Prior to it all going down I cannot recall hearing [I]much[/I] call for independence or union with Russia. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people have just seen that there are a lot of Russians carrying a lot of guns so its probably best to support them.
This situation is like if Puerto Rico decided that they liked Spain more than the USA and then Spain invaded Puerto Rico with thirty thousand paratroopers and marines. What would the Crimean economy survive on, anyways?
Man this situation is bonkers. Makes you realize how fragile and ridiculous geopoltics and the entire concept of countries is.
[QUOTE=Occlusion;44140621]Man this situation is bonkers. Makes you realize how fragile and ridiculous geopoltics and the entire concept of countries is.[/QUOTE]
Reminds me of Carl Sagan's Pale Blue Dot, "The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that in glory and triumph they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner. How frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity – in all this vastness – there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves." I guess they haven't reached the point of violence yet, but it speaks to it's relative insignificance.
[QUOTE=Medevila;44143113]that and the fact that the Crimean state will be no more than a puppet nation of Russia[/QUOTE]
That already happened with Georgia.
I'm waiting for the day that the US amongst other NATO countries will apply full force military intervention with the use of most of our arsenals to straighten out some of the world's smug ass scumlords of leaders. If you think about it, we haven't even used a fourth of the power we really have in recent wars.
You know guys, that this happened days ago, right?
[url]http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-crimea-referendum-date-20140301,0,2305350.story#axzz2v9jI8Vdm[/url]
[img]https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3744/12948623155_96c5d56faf_o.jpg[/img]
They'll have to paint the 'crimean self defence force' airforce roundel over the top of the others.
Also, the Ukrainian Flagship, which the Russian said had defected, is still flying the Ukrainian flag.
[img]http://images.china.cn/attachement/jpg/site1007/20140305/001372acd6e11480bf5d29.jpg[/img]
[editline]6th March 2014[/editline]
and not everyone welcomes the Russians.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-5TakpVuXo[/media]
here is some crimean tartars giving food to a ukrainian base
Sanctions= Russia turns of gas=bad
i love how misrepresented the whole ukraine thing is in the western media
[QUOTE=lexus04;44147076]i love how misrepresented the whole ukraine thing is in the western media[/QUOTE]
The BBC's coverage seems pretty solid to me.
Let Russia turn off the gas.
Their economy will fall harder than ours.
However, this will force Russia to back down or escalate, and I do not trust them enough to think they will go for the rational first option.
Let Crimea join Russia. If they don't want to be a part of Ukraine let them have it their way. This would be the best course of action.
[QUOTE=Lurker;44155037]Let Crimea join Russia. If they don't want to be a part of Ukraine let them have it their way. This would be the best course of action.[/QUOTE]
I don't understand why there is all this bashing going on against Crimea trying to break off from the Ukraine.
I mean, literally the Russian troops who crossed over were showered with endearment. Some were met on the streets in praise, others were warm welcomed with gifts and drinks, and otherwise there was no ill-feelings towards the Russians moving in.
So what the fuck is everyone's problem? (Outside of the Ukraine/Kiev's) Yeah it was a little cut-throat and quick, but does anyone really want a LONG dragged out conflict between the two nationalities? No of course not. Let's get it over with and be done with it.
The world, especially Obama, getting their undies in a bunch need to settle down. This shit happens. The world isn't in a static state where nothing changes and we're all one big happy group.
[QUOTE=Keys;44155099]I don't understand why there is all this bashing going on against Crimea trying to break off from the Ukraine.
I mean, literally the Russian troops who crossed over were showered with endearment. Some were met on the streets in praise, others were warm welcomed with gifts and drinks, and otherwise there was no ill-feelings towards the Russians moving in.
So what the fuck is everyone's problem? (Outside of the Ukraine/Kiev's) Yeah it was a little cut-throat and quick, but does anyone really want a LONG dragged out conflict between the two nationalities? No of course not. Let's get it over with and be done with it.
The world, especially Obama, getting their undies in a bunch need to settle down. This shit happens. The world isn't in a static state where nothing changes and we're all one big happy group.[/QUOTE]
If things were that simple, yeah sure
[QUOTE=Keys;44155099]I don't understand why there is all this bashing going on against Crimea trying to break off from the Ukraine.
I mean, literally the Russian troops who crossed over were showered with endearment. Some were met on the streets in praise, others were warm welcomed with gifts and drinks, and otherwise there was no ill-feelings towards the Russians moving in.
So what the fuck is everyone's problem? (Outside of the Ukraine/Kiev's) Yeah it was a little cut-throat and quick, but does anyone really want a LONG dragged out conflict between the two nationalities? No of course not. Let's get it over with and be done with it.
The world, especially Obama, getting their undies in a bunch need to settle down. This shit happens. The world isn't in a static state where nothing changes and we're all one big happy group.[/QUOTE]
Designing states around ethnic boundaries is ridiculous and only serves to fuel further conflict, not to combat it. Crimea is part of Ukraine as a whole. Just because the local population wishes to secede does not give it the right to tear at the integrity of the entire nation.
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