• Ukrainian City of Donetsk is now proclaiming itself a separate republic and declaring referendum, fo
    45 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;44477403]10 years from now, the map of Eastern Europe is going to look like someone dropped a vase at this rate.[/QUOTE] Like this?: [t]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/HRR_1789_EN.png[/t]
[QUOTE=LiquidNazgul;44479765]And yet the majority, Russian-speaking Ukrainians in the east included, do [I]not[/I] want the Russians to send in "peacekeeping" forces, nor do they want to secede and join Russia. The majority want closer ties to the West. [url=http://www.iri.org/sites/default/files/2014%20April%205%20IRI%20Public%20Opinion%20Survey%20of%20Ukraine,%20March%2014-26,%202014.pdf]proof[/url] Those policies are in line with what the intern government is trying to do, therefore they have significantly more legitimacy than a hundred dudes who have to barricade themselves in a building to make any sort of declaration.[/QUOTE] The statistics provided don't illustrate a large majority in favour or not. The only true conclusions that may be drawn form those statistics is that Ukraine is largely divided upon the issues that face it and that compromise will be the only way forward for it. In addition, the conclusions that the study draws seem to be overly ambitious for their minuscule sample size of 1200 people and should be disregarded for any real decision making.
[QUOTE=Oscar Lima Echo;44477445]This is the weirdest fucking invasion I've ever seen.[/QUOTE] which other ones have you seen?
Well another "weird" invasion would be the Russo-Georgian war, which lasted like a week and came out in Russia's favour. On the other end of the scale, the 10+ year conflict in the Middle East.
[QUOTE=Hamsteronfire;44479595][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donesk]the city was founded by a welshman of all people lmao[/url][/QUOTE] Yeah the area of nowadays ukraine was frequently roamed by celts and vikings on to do business even into the middle ages if I recall correctly.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;44482481]Well another "weird" invasion would be the Russo-Georgian war, which lasted like a week and came out in Russia's favour. On the other end of the scale, the 10+ year conflict in the Middle East.[/QUOTE] Not really weird, it was an actual invasion with significant casualties on both sides
Weird as in most wars don't last 5 days.
I think many of you, like many other Americans and westerners, are fairly unaware of whats going on in the East. Outside of the fact that the Ukraine appears to be crumbling and being overtaken by the Russian Federation. What most aren't aware of is that the Ukrainian people are fairly split. They are in favor of staying an independent country, unfortunately a fairly extremist group that are being labeled as Neo-fascists has begun to reign control over the government. So many citizens are opting to go for Russian leadership rather than a rather nasty take-over by a nastier party. There's even leaked phone calls from the US Secretary of State insisting the US push for a puppet leadership :v: (and largely why I think they're upset Russia beat them to it, more overtly even.) So it really doesn't surprise me anymore when more and more parts of the Ukraine are falling into Russian sway. Regardless of whether or not there are "Russian Rebels" or military units moving into the area. It would be full out civil war and riot if they didn't want it. (which we've seen in Kiev when anti-protest laws were instated).
[QUOTE=Keys;44484466]I think many of you, like many other Americans and westerners, are fairly unaware of whats going on in the East. Outside of the fact that the Ukraine appears to be crumbling and being overtaken by the Russian Federation. [/QUOTE] That's fairly presumptuous, arrogant, and I think you're being dramatic. [QUOTE=Keys;44484466] What most aren't aware of is that the Ukrainian people are fairly split. They are in favor of staying an independent country, unfortunately a fairly extremist group that are being labeled as Neo-fascists has begun to reign control over the government. So many citizens are opting to go for Russian leadership rather than a rather nasty take-over by a nastier party. There's even leaked phone calls from the US Secretary of State insisting the US push for a puppet leadership :v: (and largely why I think they're upset Russia beat them to it, more overtly even.) [/QUOTE] The Ukrainians aren't split. The people who are "split" are the ethnic Russians, even then the majority of people in Ukraine don't support Russia. Also of course it's no surprise the U.S wants to get heavily involved with the Pro-Western government, but it's not like they flat out caused this to happen. This all really turned when the previous government started passing ridiculous draconian laws to counter protestors. [QUOTE=Keys;44484466] So it really doesn't surprise me anymore when more and more parts of the Ukraine are falling into Russian sway. Regardless of whether or not there are "Russian Rebels" or military units moving into the area. It would be full out civil war and riot if they didn't want it. (which we've seen in Kiev when anti-protest laws were instated). [/QUOTE] I'd be amazed if Russia even tried to push further because then real economic sanctions would probably wipe out any gains.
[QUOTE=Keys;44484466] What most aren't aware of is that the Ukrainian people are fairly split. They are in favor of staying an independent country, unfortunately a fairly extremist group that are being labeled as Neo-fascists has begun to reign control over the government. So many citizens are opting to go for Russian leadership rather than a rather nasty take-over by a nastier party. [B]There's even leaked phone calls from the US Secretary of State insisting the US push for a puppet leadership[/B] :v: (and largely why I think they're upset Russia beat them to it, more overtly even.)[/QUOTE] Really? Where did you find that out, I'm curious [editline]8th April 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Tureis;44484790]The Ukrainians aren't split. The people who are "split" are the ethnic Russians, even then the majority of people in Ukraine don't support Russia.[/QUOTE] Believe me you don't have to be a part of a foreign ethnicity to support its nation. It's like how some of my peers are Yugonostalgic even though we were born after independence. People are weird.
[QUOTE=wewt!;44484835]Really? Where did you find that out, I'm curious [editline]8th April 2014[/editline] [/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure he's talking about this: [url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1360130[/url] Of course maybe there's actually another phone call. [QUOTE=wewt!;44484835] Believe me you don't have to be a part of a foreign ethnicity to support its nation. It's like how some of my peers are Yugonostalgic even though we were born after independence. People are weird.[/QUOTE] There are Ukrainians who support Russia, but the vast majority don't.
[QUOTE=wewt!;44484835]Really? Where did you find that out, I'm curious [editline]8th April 2014[/editline] Believe me you don't have to be a part of a foreign ethnicity to support its nation. It's like how some of my peers are Yugonostalgic even though we were born after independence. People are weird.[/QUOTE] This [url]https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Document:A_new_US_puppet_government_for_Ukraine[/url] Also mentions funding some of the original protest groups
[QUOTE=Keys;44484466]I think many of you, like many other Americans and westerners, are fairly unaware of whats going on in the East. Outside of the fact that the Ukraine appears to be crumbling and being overtaken by the Russian Federation. What most aren't aware of is that the Ukrainian people are fairly split. They are in favor of staying an independent country, unfortunately a fairly extremist group that are being labeled as Neo-fascists has begun to reign control over the government. So many citizens are opting to go for Russian leadership rather than a rather nasty take-over by a nastier party. There's even leaked phone calls from the US Secretary of State insisting the US push for a puppet leadership :v: (and largely why I think they're upset Russia beat them to it, more overtly even.) So it really doesn't surprise me anymore when more and more parts of the Ukraine are falling into Russian sway. Regardless of whether or not there are "Russian Rebels" or military units moving into the area. It would be full out civil war and riot if they didn't want it. (which we've seen in Kiev when anti-protest laws were instated).[/QUOTE] Thanks about the phone call, I couldn't find any proof that this was actually USA's doing, but I knew it all the time it was a race between US and RU.
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