• ‘Students have just had enough:’ Walkouts begin across the nation one month after Florida shooting
    198 replies, posted
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;53201398]Are there any stats for "average number of people killed/injured per single instance of shooting by "weapon type""? Pistol shootings might be more common because its easier for a crim to conceal a pistol "on da streets" and maybe pistol ownership is higher also? Genuine questions btw not tryna do a gotcha, the "assault weapon" thing banning guns based on their aesthetic seemssorta absurd. Tbh the whole sawed off thing seems nuts too, I can't imagine a mutilated gun short barrel thing being that much more dangerous than a pistol. But I've only ever shot shotguns[/QUOTE] The FBI splits homicides up by the weapon they were carried out with (categories eg pistols/rifles/knives/fists, not specifics) but I can't find the page. Hopefully someone else has it? Pistol shootings are more common because gang violence makes up the bulk of shootings in the US, and after that you have non-gang-affiliated robberies and so forth. Pistols are favored by criminals in general for a few reasons: because they're easier to hide and easier to ditch after using, and because people often keep handguns in their vehicles, which are often stolen by said criminals to be used in crimes. Handguns stolen from vehicles are I believe the largest source of illicit firearms.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;53201398]Are there any stats for "average number of people killed/injured per single instance of shooting by "weapon type""?[/QUOTE] [url=https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/expanded-homicide-data/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2010-2014.xls]Here[/url] Only goes from 2010 to 2014, unsure why the tables for '15 and '16 haven't shown up.
[QUOTE=sgman91;53201345]Aimless protests don't do anything but fuel emotion filled arguments. I'm certain some democratic policy maker will stand up and say something akin to, "Look at how angry our students are. How can we allow our places of learning to become a place where kids need to fear being killed by gun violence? We NEED to pass sensible gun regulations to prevent further violence," and they then proceed to propose an AWB or some other stupid policy that does nothing, but because of the emotional support of an aimless protest, they get to claim moral superiority.[/QUOTE] "Aimless protests don't do anything but fuel emotion filled Arguments..." I could've sworn i've heard something like that before...
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;53201358]They already don't have to fear attending school. It's astronomically more likely that they'll get killed by a drunk driver or something instead.[/QUOTE] Strongly disagree. The number of shootings on campuses continues to rise as this issue continues to be ignored. [url]https://www.abc15.com/news/data/school-shootings-in-u-s-when-where-each-shooting-has-occurred-in-2018[/url] 21 incidents in just the 3 months alone. That amount is not only concerning, but should be frightening. Something must be done, just not whatever both sides are proposing currently.
[QUOTE=joshuadim;53201410]Strongly disagree. The number of shootings on campuses continues to rise as this issue continues to be ignored. [url]https://www.abc15.com/news/data/school-shootings-in-u-s-when-where-each-shooting-has-occurred-in-2018[/url] 21 incidents in just the 3 months alone. That amount is not only concerning, but should be frightening. Something must be done, just not whatever both sides are proposing currently.[/QUOTE] [url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/no-there-havent-been-18-school-shooting-in-2018-that-number-is-flat-wrong/2018/02/15/65b6cf72-1264-11e8-8ea1-c1d91fcec3fe_story.html?utm_term=.de27c4f2eff1[/url]
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;53201398] Pistol shootings might be more common because its easier for a crim to conceal a pistol "on da streets" and maybe pistol ownership is higher also?[/QUOTE] It's exactly that. Handguns are incredibly easy to get as most legislation focuses on long guns. Plus, they're cheaper, it's not hard to hide one, and they take a lot less time to learn how to operate. [quote]Tbh the whole sawed off thing seems nuts too[/quote] A lot of that comes from the NFA and responses to crimes during the depression/prohibition era. There's no real benefit to shortening a barrel other than concealment and weight.
[QUOTE=Zombinie;53201417][url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/no-there-havent-been-18-school-shooting-in-2018-that-number-is-flat-wrong/2018/02/15/65b6cf72-1264-11e8-8ea1-c1d91fcec3fe_story.html?utm_term=.de27c4f2eff1[/url][/QUOTE] I said incidents of shootings on campuses, not straight up school shootings (if there's a difference in those, which I think there is: if not, feel free to explain to me). Also I found this snippet from your source: [QUOTE]On average, two dozen children are shot every day in the United States, and in 2016 more youths were killed by gunfire — 1,637 — than during any previous year this millennium.[/QUOTE] This is fucking terrifying.
[QUOTE=sgman91;53201299]That's a result of scaremongering and human's inherently bad sense of statistics. If people are actively afraid of being shot in a school shooting, then they are MASSIVELY hyper-inflating the chances of that happening in their head. It's not a justifiable fear. You should be far more afraid of a serious car accident, yet people aren't.[/QUOTE] The exact same thing could be said about terrorism, yet many nations use it as justification to infringe on people's privacy and freedoms. Heck, the Republican party itself, while doing absolutely nothing to curb school shootings or US gun violence in general for that matter, deliberately amplifies their voterbase's fear of terrorism for their own benefit. Welcome to politics, where perceived threats take precedence over the most rampant ones.
[QUOTE=_Axel;53201427]The exact same thing could be said about terrorism, yet many nations use it as justification to infringe on people's privacy and freedoms. Heck, the Republican party itself, while doing absolutely nothing to curb school shootings or US gun violence in general for that matter, deliberately amplifies their voterbase's fear of terrorism for their own benefit. Welcome to politics, where perceived threats take precedence over the most rampant ones.[/QUOTE] Whataboutisms doesn't change the fact that overhyping school shootings is still fear mongering.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;53201428]People are right to be angry, but when the "best solution" being proposed is something completely based on the idea that we should "ban scary things", and the people calling for an increase in age to 21 don't realize that the NRA/GOA/Concerned citizens are going to tear that apart in the courts, then is it any wonder that the "we should DO something, but make sure it's actively effective" crowd is rolling their eyes to the point of dizziness? I'm not even going to touch on the "arm teachers" thing, that entire thing is an entire bottle of idiot that I just don't want to deal with right now. I totally get being angry, but being angry and calling for things that are flat out going to get ripped apart by SCOTUS, or are flat out going to be ineffective against the vast majority of crime is laughable. People are openly calling for legislation that's going to get ripped up by the courts, and then we'll be back to square 1, only now the rhetoric will be "WE TRIED to fix the problem, but the COURTS said we couldn't fix it". If they'd start protesting for better social conditions, and better funding for education, and better funding for mental health, and better funding for healthcare, not only would I agree, I'D JOIN THEM. [editline]14th March 2018[/editline] Which is bullshit, now isn't it? Are you cool with continuing to let emotions and fear drive our legislation, or should we FINALLY start basing our legislation on facts? Because it seems strange that we demand our medicine be evidence based, but we're perfectly cool with letting our laws be based on emotions and opinions.[/QUOTE] Instead of criticizing a bunch of ignorant, angry high school kids on a video game forum, go and show them the way. Organize a protest at your local university using evidence based policy and be the change you want to see. [editline]14th March 2018[/editline] [QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;53201447]Whataboutisms doesn't change the fact that overhyping school shootings is still fear mongering.[/QUOTE] Well there's nothing hyperbolic about the fact that this is the only developed country where this regularly happens.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53201109]. Pushing for assault weapons bans or increased age limits doesn't really affect much when a majority of firearm crime is handguns, committed by gangs. [/QUOTE] Except it does and what you are saying here is absolutely not the case: [url]https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2582989[/url] [quote]Findings We found evidence that stronger firearm laws are associated with reductions in firearm homicide rates. The strongest evidence is for laws that strengthen background checks and that require a permit to purchase a firearm. The effect of many of the other specific types of laws is uncertain, specifically laws to curb gun trafficking, improve child safety, ban military-style assault weapons, and restrict firearms in public places.[/quote] [url]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24861430[/url] [quote]RESULTS: Media accounts of mass shootings by disturbed individuals galvanize public attention and reinforce popular belief that mental illness often results in violence. Epidemiologic studies show that the large majority of people with serious mental illnesses are never violent. However, mental illness is strongly associated with increased risk of suicide, which accounts for over half of US firearms-related fatalities.[/quote] [editline]14th March 2018[/editline] [QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;53201447]Whataboutisms doesn't change the fact that overhyping school shootings is still fear mongering.[/QUOTE] How in the fuck is pupils protesting against gun violence at schools "overhyping gun violence"`? What the fuck?
[QUOTE=joshuadim;53201426]I said incidents of shootings on campuses, not straight up school shootings (if there's a difference in those, which I think there is: if not, feel free to explain to me). Also I found this snippet from your source: This is fucking terrifying.[/QUOTE] A lot of those shootings you mentioned are negligent or suicides (which make up roughly 2/3 of all shooting in general). The rest tend to be children caught in the crossfire if gang shootings (which makes up the vast majority of the other 1/3). School shootings are an issue but the chances of you, or a kid in general, dying in one is absolutely astronomical. Youre more likely to die on your way to school by being hit by a drunk driver.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;53201474]There are no protests in my state, there was no walk out here. School administrators said "leave and get expelled, your choice".[/QUOTE] Well that's fucked up
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;53201428]Which is bullshit, now isn't it? Are you cool with continuing to let emotions and fear drive our legislation, or should we FINALLY start basing our legislation on facts? Because it seems strange that we demand our medicine be evidence based, but we're perfectly cool with letting our laws be based on emotions and opinions.[/QUOTE] Have I said any of that? Just wanted to point this out so that people could be more consistent and relativize. [editline]14th March 2018[/editline] [QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;53201447]Whataboutisms doesn't change the fact that overhyping school shootings is still fear mongering.[/QUOTE] Ditto.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53201109] doesn't really affect much when a majority of firearm crime is handguns, committed by gangs. [/QUOTE] The thought process behind this baffels me. Dude. They are pupils protesting gun violence. The thought behind your kind of "pshaw, doesn't do much, them protesting gun related violcence doesn't change gun violence by gangs" is so goddamn vile, missguided and malicious, I have no words.
[QUOTE=Jim Morrison;53201449] Well there's nothing hyperbolic about the fact that this is the only developed country where this regularly happens.[/QUOTE] I never said it wasnt an issue. Just saying that fear mongering isn't right and doesn't help anything.
[QUOTE=Killuah;53201462]Except it does and what you are saying here is absolutely not the case: [url]https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2582989[/url] [/QUOTE] Your first quote presented this: [quote]The effect of many of the other specific types of laws is uncertain, specifically laws to curb gun trafficking, improve child safety, ban military-style assault weapons, and restrict firearms in public places.[/quote] If a law's effects are "uncertain" after an extended period of time, it should be taken off the table and reworked. And I said firearm [I]crimes[/I]. Suicide is not a crime.
[QUOTE=Killuah;53201487]The thought process behind this baffels me. Dude. They are pupils protesting gun violence. The thought behind your kind of "pshaw, doesn't do much, them protesting gun related violcence doesn't change gun violence by gangs" is so goddamn vile, missguided and malicious, I have no words.[/QUOTE] "Yeah dude there's so much gun violence, the stuff killing kids looks tiny in comparison" [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Shitpost - Start putting more effort into your replies or dont bother at all" - Mezzokoko))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Killuah;53201462]Except it does and what you are saying here is absolutely not the case: [URL]https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2582989[/URL] [URL]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24861430[/URL] [/QUOTE] So did you read both what you were responding to and the studies you posted? The studies literally said they can't determine any effect of AWBs, or gun laws intended to improve child safety, only stronger background checks and permits. Most people have no issue with good background checks. Several of the recent shootings were precisely because people failed performing the background check correctly.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;53201474]There are no protests in my state, there was no walk out here. School administrators said "leave and get expelled, your choice".[/QUOTE] I find it hard to believe that your school admins said that, considering [url=https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/393/503/case.html] being a student doesn't mean you shed your constitutional rights [/url] and at the most the school could [url=https://www.aclunc.org/sites/default/files/Youth%20-%20Know%20Your%20Rights%20to%20Protest%20and%20Walk%20Out.pdf]give you an unexcused absence.[/url]
[QUOTE=Killuah;53201462]Except it does and what you are saying here is absolutely not the case: [url]https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2582989[/url] [url]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24861430[/url] [/QUOTE] None of that refutes what he just said, and even supports it. AWBs do nothing in the US, but more practical methods of gun control do.
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;53201471]A lot of those shootings you mentioned are negligent or suicides (which make up roughly 2/3 of all shooting in general). The rest tend to be children caught in the crossfire if gang shootings (which makes up the vast majority of the other 1/3). School shootings are an issue but the chances of you, or a kid in general, dying in one is absolutely astronomical. Youre more likely to die on your way to school by being hit by a drunk driver.[/QUOTE] It's still indicative of a problem that on average that [B]two dozen[/B] children are shot [B]per day[/B] in the United States.
[QUOTE=Killuah;53201487]The thought process behind this baffels me. Dude. They are pupils protesting gun violence. The thought behind your kind of "pshaw, doesn't do much, them protesting gun related violcence doesn't change gun violence by gangs" is so goddamn vile, missguided and malicious, I have no words.[/QUOTE] I understand that you're clearly trying to bait me into having an emotional argument with you, but I won't. Instead, let me explain the process that you are neatly cutting out and ignoring most of my other posts. Their protests are in good spirits and they have their hearts in the right place. However, what they are pushing for will not only have little to no effect on the vast majority of gun crimes in the United States, but it will also be an incredibly difficult, uphill battle against the courts. If it is vile to say that, then I guess I'm vile. [editline]14th March 2018[/editline] [QUOTE=SIRIUS;53201491]"Yeah dude there's so much gun violence, the stuff killing kids looks tiny in comparison"[/QUOTE] Why do you always do this.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53201489]Your first quote presented this: If a law's effects are "uncertain" after an extended period of time, it should be taken off the table and reworked. And I said firearm [I]crimes[/I]. Suicide is not a crime.[/QUOTE] Ok but the paper is talking about [quote]We found evidence that stronger firearm laws are associated with reductions in firearm homicide rates. The strongest evidence is for laws that strengthen background checks and that require a permit to purchase a firearm.[/quote] [quote]And I said firearm [I]crimes[/I]. Suicide is not a crime.[/QUOTE] [quote]reductions in firearm [B]homicide[/B][/quote] What?
[QUOTE=joshuadim;53201499]It's still indicative of a problem that on average that [B]two dozen[/B] children are shot [B]per day[/B] in the United States.[/QUOTE] Yea, and the 12 a day arent being shot in school shootings. Theyre victims of gang violence, participants of it, or finding a gun at home. Thats something that blanket bans and age restrictions wont do anything to stop.
[QUOTE=Killuah;53201506]Ok but the paper is talking about [/QUOTE] [quote]However, mental illness is strongly associated with increased risk of suicide, which accounts for over half of US firearms-related fatalities.[/quote] In your second source, I forgot to mention that.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53201501]I understand that you're clearly trying to bait me into having an emotional argument with you, but I won't. Instead, let me explain the process that you are neatly cutting out and ignoring most of my other posts. Their protests are in good spirits and they have their hearts in the right place. However, what they are pushing for will not only have little to no effect on the vast majority of gun crimes in the United States, but it will also be an incredibly difficult, uphill battle against the courts. If it is vile to say that, then I guess I'm vile. [editline]14th March 2018[/editline] [B]Why do you always do this[/B].[/QUOTE] This is a protest against school shootings, how that compares to gun violence in other forms isn't really relevant
[QUOTE=Killuah;53201506]Ok but the paper is talking about What?[/QUOTE] [B][i]The strongest evidence is for laws that strengthen background checks and that require a permit to purchase a firearm.[/b][/i] Wheres it talkin about blanket bans, awb's, or bans in general? You keep touting that quote but you dont know what it means
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;53201513]Yea, and the 12 a day arent being shot in school shootings. Theyre victims of gang violence, participants of it, or finding a gun at home. Thats something that blanket bans and age restrictions wont do anything to stop.[/QUOTE] I never said I support blanket ban/age restrictions if that's what you're implying. What I'm saying is both sides need to stop either ignoring the issue or trying to force through feel-good measures.
[QUOTE=SIRIUS;53201517]This is a protest against school shootings, how that compares to gun violence in other forms isn't really relevant[/QUOTE] Uh, yes it does. It is a protest pushing for an assault weapons ban and a restriction of sales to those under 21. It has everything to do with gun violence.
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