‘Students have just had enough:’ Walkouts begin across the nation one month after Florida shooting
198 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53201694]But what bearing on the conversation does it have[/QUOTE]
It paints a picture of who I am talking to and what motivates him/her.
We are humans talking to each other, not writing papers .
[QUOTE=Raidyr;53201704]The blame is on lawmakers on both sides for letting it get this far. Even if you think the AWB or any gun control proposal is stupid policy you can't blame the kids being upset the adults not doing their jobs.[/QUOTE]
If someone is going to enter into the political discussion, then they should be held at the same level as anyone else, whether kids or not. So when these kids come out and do almost literally nothing but give emotional force to people looking to put horrible policies into place, then I'm going to hold them to that. They don't get a pass because they're kids.
Being angry doesn't suddenly make you respectable. If you go out into the political sphere with aimless anger, and cause bad policy because of it, then that's on you. I would say the same thing about the republican idiots trying to pass these tariff in the name of being angry at losing jobs.
[QUOTE=Killuah;53201721]It paints a picture of who I am talking to and what motivates him/her.
We are humans talking to each other, not writing papers .[/QUOTE]
No, not really. It seems like a thinly veiled attempt to try and get a rise out of me/put yourself on a high ground. You already know who I am so don’t make shit up
Walkout at my school was a success. Well over 1000 kids walked out and I had the chance to speak to the crowd. Was very empowering. If anyone wants any photos, I could share them.
[QUOTE=LJG;53201742]Walkout at my school was a success. Well over 1000 kids walked out and I had the chance to speak to the crowd. Was very empowering. If anyone wants any photos, I could share them.[/QUOTE]
Good job on being politically active.
Be mindful of sharing pictures of ur friends with strangers though, especially since this is politically charged and some protesters are being targeted (excluded)
[QUOTE=LJG;53201742]Walkout at my school was a success. Well over 1000 kids walked out and I had the chance to speak to the crowd. Was very empowering. If anyone wants any photos, I could share them.[/QUOTE]
How was the mood? Did you have the impression that you reached people or was it more isolated?
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;53201745]Good job on being politically active.
Be mindful of sharing pictures of ur friends with strangers though, especially since this is politically charged and some protesters are being targeted (excluded)[/QUOTE]
With this, try not to show signs of where the school is since nutcases use that to pinpoint protestors and dox them. Rare but I’d rather people not take the risk
[QUOTE=ThatSwordGuy;53201028]"Haha, these kids are just trying to skip school!"[/QUOTE]
[URL="https://www.pressherald.com/2018/03/14/portland-students-join-national-walkout-in-downtown-protest/"]Despite storm, hundreds of Maine students join national walkout in downtown protest[/URL]
[QUOTE]Even though near-blizzard conditions forced most Maine schools to close on Wednesday, hundreds of Maine students held walkouts at open schools and some demonstrations continued even though it was a snow day.
“If we do nothing, more students will die,” said Greta Holmes, one of about two dozen King Middle School students in Portland who gathered in Monument Square because their school was closed.[/QUOTE]
my school district planned around the protests so the kids decided to go on longer than 17 minutes lol
Can we stop for a moment and ponder whether this is the left-wing equivalent of a moral panic, and is as post-factual and feelings based as any anti-immigrant claims and fears about terrorism? Similar to that debate, it's literally just culture war. It's also similarly best pitched as 'it might not be correct on this incident that sparked it, but it's just expression of rage against politicians doing nothing about a wider issue'
The only difference is we've never seen our culture give a platform to an Islamophobe, it's not a virtue. It's 'ignorance-signaling'. In fact, the only thing we heard about the 'Muslim ban' upstart-president was how impossible his election was and how against our values it'd be, and subsequently how much of a threat to liberal-democracy his momentum was. As Hillary will herself tell you, he only won because of the backwardness of America and that, presumably, there are sides of history at work here.
We see no such claims here about the doomed nature of irrationalism as something on the wrong side of history. We see no such equivalent treatment of anti-gun irrationalism, it's either portrayed as frustration towards sociopath gun owners or bought out politicians rather than the blatant contradiction of liberal rationalism and skepticism. The latter is constantly used as a wedge against anti-immigrant irrationalism to portray who the better person is, so I can't help but notice the dissonance of this gun non-debate.
[url]https://news.northeastern.edu/2018/02/schools-are-still-one-of-the-safest-places-for-children-researcher-says/[/url]
Gun ownership rates have risen while violent crime in general has declined, school shootings are not a statistical epidemic and mass shootings at large have declined. Yet this has never been more of an issue during a time of cultural conflict, is this an argument for blind reactionary-ism and cultural tribalism being a feature of both sides of the political aisle?
[QUOTE=Conscript;53201831]
Gun ownership rates have risen while violent crime in general has declined[/QUOTE]
How many of these crimes are gun related crimes and have they risen or fallen? In absolutes and relative to overall crime.
If you’re young and you missed this, or missed the opportunity because of work etc., on March 24th the “March for our Lives” protest will take place across more than 700 locations in the US and world. The main March will be down Pennsylvania Avenue and most locations in America will be having sister marches. “March for our Lives” has been pledged or received millions in donations for the event so it’s going to be pretty nuts. If you’re young and an activist make sure to look up any local events on Saturday, March 24th.
[QUOTE=Conscript;53201831]Can we stop for a moment and ponder whether this is the left-wing equivalent of a moral panic, and is as post-factual and feelings based as any claim about anti-immigrant ideas and fears about terrorism? Similar to that debate, it's literally just culture war. It's also similarly best pitched as 'rage against politicians doing nothing about the issue'.
The only difference is we've never seen our culture give a platform to an Islamophobe, it's not a virtue. It's 'ignorance-signaling'. In fact, the only thing we heard about the 'Muslim ban' upstart-president was how impossible his election was and how against our values it'd be, and subsequently how much of a threat to liberal-democracy his momentum was. As Hillary will herself tell you, he only won because of the backwardsness of America and that, presumably, there are sides of history at work here. We see no such claims here about the doomed nature of irrationalism as something on the wrong side of history.
We see no such equivalent treatment of anti-gun irrationalism, it's either portrayed as frustration towards sociopath gun owners or bought out politicians rather than the blatant contradiction of liberal rationalism and skepticism. The latter is constantly used as a wedge against anti-immigrant irrationalism to portray who the better person is, so I can't help but notice the dissonance of this gun non-debate.
[url]https://news.northeastern.edu/2018/02/schools-are-still-one-of-the-safest-places-for-children-researcher-says/[/url]
Gun ownership rates have risen while violent crime in general has declined, school shootings are not a statistical epidemic and mass shootings at large have declined. Yet this has never been more of an issue during a time of cultural conflict, is this an argument for blind reactionary-ism and cultural tribalism being a feature of both sides of the political aisle?[/QUOTE]
"Its dem lefties again..."
I swear you think the USA is going to be taken over by Neo-Marxists.
If everyone keeps fighting back against these protests because theyre misguided, youre going to kill the spirit of the protests. You need momentum to make change, and regardless of how misdirected you feel these cries are they are gaining more momentum than ever. You can sit here thumb up your ass whining about how these protests arent the right way to go about it or you can help shape the message. Its really sad how thinly veiled some of the anti protest rhetoric is here when protests by students have been key to major societal overhaul in our history.
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;53201923]If everyone keeps fighting back against these protests because theyre misguided, youre going to kill the spirit of the protests. You need momentum to make change, and regardless of how misdirected you feel these cries are they are gaining more momentum than ever. You can sit here thumb up your ass whining about how these protests arent the right way to go about it or you can help shape the message. Its really sad how thinly veiled some of the anti protest rhetoric is here when protests by students have been key to major societal overhaul in our history.[/QUOTE]
I encourage these kids to protest, but what theyre protesting for is not going to bring any sort of societal change. What they want done is not sensical, rational, reasonable, or effective. I want school shootings to stop, and gun violence in general. But I'm smart enough to know that blanket bans and getting rid of this and that isnt going to solve either of these problems.
I get that these kids are frustrated but what they want wont solve what theyre frustrated about.
Its can be easy to change the message of a protest, ala what happened to BLM, but its impossible to make it take a 180 degree turn on its purpose.
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;53201923]If everyone keeps fighting back against these protests because theyre misguided, youre going to kill the spirit of the protests. You need momentum to make change, and regardless of how misdirected you feel these cries are they are gaining more momentum than ever. You can sit here thumb up your ass whining about how these protests arent the right way to go about it or you can help shape the message. Its really sad how thinly veiled some of the anti protest rhetoric is here when protests by students have been key to major societal overhaul in our history.[/QUOTE]
No one is criticizing protesting as an activity. There's nothing "anti-protest" about saying that protesting in such a way as to encourage bad policy isn't helpful.
[QUOTE=Uber22;53201883]"Its dem lefties again..."
I swear you think the USA is going to be taken over by Neo-Marxists.[/QUOTE]
A marxist takeover would be preferable to any amount of modern conservatism these days.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;53201553]I dunno, its in my best interest to have healthcare, mental healthcare, better education, and better social safety nets. So are those "not real solutions"? If so, then Europe's entire society is built around a bunch of nothing, and we shouldn't bother advocating for those things anymore, right?
I guess that means that we don't need single payer, or mental health institutes, or education funding, or wealthfare reform. Guess all we needed was to ban the scary guns and all of societies problems magically went away.
Huh, funny how that doesn't work, now isn't it?[/QUOTE]
This is what always gets me in these arguments. Like, it reminds me of that one cheeky comic about climate change deniers- '[url=https://i.imgur.com/DpqiV4s.jpg]What if it's a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?[/url]' Arguably left-wing goals shouldn't become laughable because people want to support them in defense of something from another camp. 'The GOP/NRA wouldn't support those things' is irrelevant- if you tell someone that political desires don't match up with an idiot politician's actions, well, no shit. It'd be as much of a non-argument as telling someone that their desire for socialized healthcare is dumb because even dems won't seriously vote for it.
[QUOTE=Blackavar;53201963]A marxist takeover would be preferable to any amount of modern conservatism these days.[/QUOTE]
I don't think you actually believe that, or at least I sure hope not.
[QUOTE=sgman91;53202057]I don't think you actually believe that, or at least I sure hope not.[/QUOTE]
If your only idea of Marxism is from the red scare, then yeah, of course you'd be surprised someone thinks Marxism is better for humanity than oligarchal corporatism
[QUOTE=sgman91;53202057]I don't think you actually believe that, or at least I sure hope not.[/QUOTE]
It is within the deepest of my convictions, values, and principles to want a good life for every person. And it's not some "works on paper, doesn't work in practice" pipe dream that so many people think it is.
[QUOTE=Blackavar;53202092]It is within the deepest of my convictions, values, and principles to want a good life for every person. And it's not some "works on paper, doesn't work in practice" pipe dream that so many people think it is.[/QUOTE]
I mean even if Marxism didn't work, let's say, the ideal for corporate oligarchy (modern conservatism) is literally a hellscape in comparison to Marxism's clear attempt to make life better for everyone. Even if Marxism is corrupted, corporate oligarchy is ALWAYS corrupted.
[QUOTE=sgman91;53202057]I don't think you actually believe that, or at least I sure hope not.[/QUOTE]
If you actually read the concept of Marxism instead of thinking its some Stalinist concept, its not that bad. Downside its never been executed correctly.
[QUOTE=SIRIUS;53201491]"Yeah dude there's so much gun violence, the stuff killing kids looks tiny in comparison"
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Shitpost - Start putting more effort into your replies or dont bother at all" - Mezzokoko))[/highlight][/QUOTE]
Its infuriating seeing how many people feel the need to stop behaving like normal, civilized people in these threads and refuse to actually listen to what they're saying purely to be passive aggressively insulting.
You clearly dont care about listening to anything anyone has to say in these threads, so why do you keep doing this? To have some smug sense of superiority?
Why do people feel the need to be like this.
[QUOTE=Uber22;53201883]"Its dem lefties again..."
I swear you think the USA is going to be taken over by Neo-Marxists.[/QUOTE]
That's not what I said at all. I said this is evidence that irrationalism, authoritarianism, or tribalism is not limited to the right at all or even overrepresented in it. This moral panic suggests that the 'right side of history' sense of momentum is not as portrayed, meaning enlightened, factually correct, and revolutionary. Here it just means these protests are just heavy on aesthetics, they're not tired of 'the old'. They aren't above it any more than the right is here. They're not only lacking in factual substance, their form is no different from a youthful nationalist rally in Europe. It's all optics, culture, and feels. In substance, I see no reason to separate the left weaponizing children from the right doing so with terrorist victims, the claim that the latter cherrypicks data and uses imagery to push an ignorant, tribalistic narrative applies to the former with an incredible overlap.
I'm suggesting there is equivalence here in that the pro-gun and anti-gun positions are sides in a cultural conflict. There is no policy debate here, the gun debate is post-factual and into feelings territory. Just like the issue of immigration. You'd have to have an ideological blindspot to not notice the dissonance required in separating the two, so it's ironic you're accusing me of having kneejerk opposition to the left.
I'm actually just being pessimistic because I'm saying, unlike the past, rationalism is no longer the right side of history. You can no longer say the left is just the rational or empirical position. Opposing sides of history have degenerated into culture war. This is our 'information' age
[QUOTE=Tetracycline;53202080]If your only idea of Marxism is from the red scare, then yeah, of course you'd be surprised someone thinks Marxism is better for humanity than oligarchal corporatism[/QUOTE]
I'm a liberal.
I do not want marxism.
Your rhetoric, and manner of talking about issues would easily push people to the "right".
I find Marxism to be fine but it's never in history been applied in a way I find even close to acceptable.
Anyway, this discussion is way the hell off topic.
[QUOTE=Conscript;53202221]That's not what I said at all. I said this is evidence that irrationalism, authoritarianism, or tribalism is not limited to the right at all or even overrepresented in it. This moral panic suggests that the 'right side of history' sense of momentum is not as portrayed, meaning enlightened, factually correct, and revolutionary. Here it just means these protests are just heavy on aesthetics, they're not tired of 'the old'. They aren't above it any more than the right is here. They're not only lacking in factual substance, their form is no different from a youthful nationalist rally in Europe. It's all optics, culture, and feels. In substance, I see no reason to separate the left weaponizing children from the right doing so with terrorist victims, the claim that the latter cherrypicks data and uses imagery to push an ignorant, tribalistic narrative applies to the former with an incredible overlap.
I'm suggesting there is equivalence here in that the pro-gun and anti-gun positions are sides in a cultural conflict. There is no policy debate here, the gun debate is post-factual and into feelings territory. Just like the issue of immigration. You'd have to have an ideological blindspot to not notice the dissonance required in separating the two, so it's ironic you're accusing me of having kneejerk opposition to the left.
I'm actually just being pessimistic because I'm saying, unlike the past, rationalism is no longer the right side of history. You can no longer say the left is just the rational or empirical position. Opposing sides of history have degenerated into culture war. This is our 'information' age[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Can we stop for a moment and ponder whether this is the left-wing equivalent of a moral panic[/QUOTE]
idk mate. First line of your post set it up to blame the left.
[QUOTE=Uber22;53202277]idk mate. First line of your post set it up to blame the left.[/QUOTE]
Blaming the left for what?
I was saying the left either was degenerating or always was like this, meaning at best I see them as at one point better than the right or at worst they both have issues with irrationalism and contribute to the post-factual, culture war-oriented political reality of the information age
[QUOTE=UnidentifiedFlyingTard;53201198]So far I haven't seen a decent argument from you or any other pro gun peeps on FP.[/QUOTE]
You must be willfully ignorant if you haven't seen the multitude of well-reasoned arguments made by pro-gun posters. For someone who accuses others of not making good arguments, this is definitely not a good look for you.
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