• It happens again: Arab athlete withdraws from Olympics to avoid Israeli in next round
    71 replies, posted
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;50887956]The country was founded for Jews, by Jews, I'm fairly sure any Jew can get Israeli citizenship just by being Jewish, and it has the Star of David on its flag. It's a Jewish country no matter what the "official" stuff says.[/QUOTE] "Mayflower".
[QUOTE=Maadz;50888232]this is stupid this is the olympics pretty sure the people who are doing this are just doing this for attention[/QUOTE] Not justifying what they're doing, but regardless of their own personal beliefs it must be a difficult choice for athletes too. One the one hand, I wonder if they give a shit at all about such nonsense, but at the same time, have to keep up such a pretense for their handlers (as a political thing) to ensure that their loved ones don't fall victim to backlash back home. I know that politicians from the Middle East have gotten a lot of shit [URL="http://www1.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/Religion/?id=1.0.1186156934"]for such stupid things as shaking women's hands when on foreign junkets[/URL], so I imagine that this sort of nonsense is just more of the same. It flies completely against the ideals of sportsmanship. Whether it be science or sports, regardless of what patch of land we were fated to be born in, we are still humans striving for the best of all humankind.
[QUOTE=Marbalo;50888345]I cant get over what a waste of an opportunity it was when the othe Egyptian guy refused to shake his Israeli opponents hand after losing. I mean theres dirty play, theres being rude and all but this is just absurd levels of sour loser. Regardless, shaking his hand would have been so much better. It could spark discussion in his own country and around the Arab world as well, many would brand him a traitor and even maybe send him death threats or what have you, but I am confident there would be others speaking in his favor and the handshake would give them the platform to do so. But nope, best be a massive baby about it and prolong the conflict and the prejuidice and the hatred I guess. Plus no matter how justified the Israelis would be in their reaction to this insult, a lot of hotheaded idiots use the refusal to shake hands as a metaphorical summary of our conflict with our neighbors, using it and manipulating the incident in their favor to even further escalate things. And it all could have been avoided if he just shook his hand.[/QUOTE] It's important to know Israel and Egypt have had lasting peace since the 70s, and relations between the Israeli and Egyptian administration [URL="http://www.dailysabah.com/mideast/2016/07/10/egyptian-and-israeli-foreign-ministers-come-together-in-rare-visit"]have never been better[/URL]. Here's a picture of Netanyahu and the Egyptian foreign minister shaking hands on a meeting just a few weeks ago: [t]http://ia.tmgrup.com.tr/2b6915/645/344/0/73/2048/1165?u=http://i.tmgrup.com.tr/dailysabah/2016/07/10/1468181798259.jpg[/t] But for some reason pretty much everyone else in Egypt, from academics and artists to professional and sports unions hates Israel so much people are blacklisted just for any contact with Israelis. It's the kind of thing that makes even the most pro-peace Israelis worry about the prospect of ever being able to forge a sane relationship with our neighbors. In other news, for the first time since it happened 44 years ago the Olympics finally bothered [URL="http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Sports/First-official-IOC-ceremony-in-memory-of-Munich-victims-463185"]to commemorate the Munich Olympics massacre[/URL]. So, progress? I guess?
[QUOTE=Vintage Thatguy;50887413]it's different when the DPRK doesn't steal land, encourage illegal settlements and the killing of teenagers of the other country (not to mention koreans speak the same language and were united for thousands of years and hebrew and arabic are completely different seeing as jews just popped in less than 100 years ago into land that was arabic for more than a thousand+ years)[/QUOTE] I understand your grief with the israeli government but the settlers are in fact illegal and the IDF has powers to arrest them. Muslims in israeli aren't mistreated (to my knowledge). Also jews have been there for longer than any other group, when Mohammed was exiled from Mecca and took place in Medina his first group of followers (true believers) were jews, there are stories of jews and muslims living in ottoman palestine where muslims would celebrate passover and jews would celebrate ramadan with their neighbours. Israel has a ton of problems but there are bad on both sides. When there are videos telling young Palestinians to stab random jews, Hamas conduct regular attacks and religious schools teach that jews are pigs (ie unclean) the paranoid mindset of Israel is understandable. They are heavy handed but is that malice or just not knowing better? Stuff like where the IDF demolish a house because the son was a terrorist - that sort of heavy handed response is utterly stupid but they're so convinced that violence and fear are the only way to win because they've had decades of violence and fear (likewise of Palestinians which is why Hamas has support)
[QUOTE=LegndNikko;50887463]Yeah, absolutely not. To some of these people, Israel isn't a country that should even exist. [/QUOTE] Lets be honest, I am not an anti semite, but Israel should not really exist, not in the way it does exist, in any case.
I really don't know what to think of the Israel - Palestine situation (other than I want peace between both groups) but this is ridiculous and wrong, no matter how you cut it. I've never heard of a situation where Irish and British athletes refused to face each other, and Russians and Americas were at each others' throat for decades and they never refused to face each other. It's the Olympics. Be politically neutral for once, lads.
[QUOTE=Svinnik;50887449]When does Israel encourage killing of Palestinian teenagers? Hebrew and Arabic are very similar languages as well.[/QUOTE] Hebrew in its current form is a made up language. Israël does not value the lives of its arab citizens highly if at all. I believe it is fair to speak out against Israël as this country is, to me and many others, an exacerbated picture of most things that are wrong in this world. Now, does competing against a country in the olympics validate its status as a sovereign state? Should team refugee get their own micronation next? Who knows. By now you'd think the punks would have started actually taking steps towards invading israel instead of pulling this middle school type shit at worldwide sporting events. It's not like the judoka decided that he'd be born in israel.
I think some athletes would have objected if South Africa had been allowed to compete in the 70s and 80s.
[QUOTE=Vintage Thatguy;50887413]it's different when the DPRK doesn't steal land, encourage illegal settlements and the killing of teenagers of the other country (not to mention koreans speak the same language and were united for thousands of years and hebrew and arabic are completely different seeing as jews just popped in less than 100 years ago into land that was arabic for more than a thousand+ years)[/QUOTE] Oh yeah, because these Arab countries totally care about the Palestians. They only do it out of hatred for the Jews.
Let's take moral lessons from Saudi Arabia, a bankroller of terrorism.
[QUOTE=Scarabix;50888715]Hebrew in its current form is a made up language. Israël does not value the lives of its arab citizens highly if at all. I believe it is fair to speak out against Israël as this country is, to me and many others, an exacerbated picture of most things that are wrong in this world. Now, does competing against a country in the olympics validate its status as a sovereign state? Should team refugee get their own micronation next? Who knows. By now you'd think the punks would have started actually taking steps towards invading israel instead of pulling this middle school type shit at worldwide sporting events. It's not like the judoka decided that he'd be born in israel.[/QUOTE] As a modern Hebrew speaker I can read the Bible in its original form. I can read the Dead Sea Scrolls. I can read inscriptions on ossuaries from the time of Jesus. How many modern English speakers can read and understand Middle English? Regardless, Hebrew and Arabic are both Semitic languages with common roots, and are both Israel's official languages. Hebrew speaking Israelis learn Arabic at school, and vice versa.
[QUOTE=sgman91;50887472]The single most free state, for Jews and Muslims, in the entire Arab world is the same as literal theocracies who oppress women and minorities as a manner of law.[/QUOTE] Hahaha, okay buddy, please keep tell me how Israel is so much better for Muslims than all of the "theocracies" that "surround" it. [QUOTE=DogGunn;50888782]Oh yeah, because these Arab countries totally care about the Palestians. They only do it out of hatred for the Jews.[/QUOTE] You hit the nail on the head friendo, every time Israel is brought up here we all start screaming about how we fucking hate Jews and how Hitler did nothing wrong. We aren't smart enough to care for our fellow Arabs, we don't have such superior western ideals like compassion.
[QUOTE=Fayez;50888875]Hahaha, okay buddy, please keep tell me how Israel is so much better for Muslims than all of the "theocracies" that "surround" it. You hit the nail on the head friendo, every time Israel is brought up here we all start screaming about how we fucking hate Jews and how Hitler did nothing wrong. We aren't smart enough to care for our fellow Arabs, we don't have such superior western ideals like compassion.[/QUOTE] I think the point these guys are making is that countries like Iran or Saudi Arabia claim to support Palestine, but then refuse to send aid or accept citizens from Gaza as refuges. They aren't saying anything about how Lebanon deals with these situations.
[QUOTE=Fayez;50888875]You hit the nail on the head friendo, every time Israel is brought up here we all start screaming about how we fucking hate Jews and how Hitler did nothing wrong. We aren't smart enough to care for our fellow Arabs, we don't have such superior western ideals like compassion.[/QUOTE] Totally. Pretend that what I said isn't true. Why have the Palestinian refugees in Lebanon or Jordan not integrated into those countries? [editline]15th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Fayez;50888875]Hahaha, okay buddy, please keep tell me how Israel is so much better for Muslims than all of the "theocracies" that "surround" it.[/QUOTE] Well it is.
[QUOTE=Fayez;50888875]Hahaha, okay buddy, please keep tell me how Israel is so much better for Muslims than all of the "theocracies" that "surround" it. You hit the nail on the head friendo, every time Israel is brought up here we all start screaming about how we fucking hate Jews and how Hitler did nothing wrong. We aren't smart enough to care for our fellow Arabs, we don't have such superior western ideals like compassion.[/QUOTE] Really? Really guy? [QUOTE]According to Human Rights Watch, Palestinian refugees in Lebanon live in "appalling social and economic conditions." They labor under legal restrictions that bar them from employment in at least 25 professions, "including law, medicine, and engineering," a system that relegates them to the black market for labor. [B]And they are "still subject to a discriminatory law introduced in 2001 preventing them from registering property.[/B][/QUOTE] From [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinians_in_Lebanon"]here[/URL].
Oh shit we got a Hezbollah and JIDF war coming on :v:
[QUOTE=DogGunn;50889047]Totally. Pretend that what I said isn't true. Why have the Palestinian refugees in Lebanon or Jordan not integrated into those countries? [/QUOTE] Because our infrastructure literally cannot handle the influx of so many people? I don't know if you've ever looked at a map of the Middle East, but this country is very small and nearly a third of the people in our country are refugees. [QUOTE]Well it is.[/QUOTE] [URL="http://brookdale.jdc.org.il/_Uploads/dbsAttachedFiles/Facts-and-Figures-2015-Poverty-in-Israel-December-2015.pdf"]So amazing that 56% of Arabs live below the poverty line.[/URL] [QUOTE=ScumBunny;50889149]Really? Really guy? [/QUOTE] I will bring it up again, our population has increased nearly 30% because of refugees, while we are still trying to recover from the civil war and hosting a Saudi/Iranian proxy war. Nobody here [I]wants [/I]to treat Palestinians badly, we just don't have a choice.
[QUOTE=Fayez;50889173]Because our infrastructure literally cannot handle the influx of so many people? I don't know if you've ever looked at a map of the Middle East, but this country is very small and nearly a third of the people in our country are refugees? [URL="http://brookdale.jdc.org.il/_Uploads/dbsAttachedFiles/Facts-and-Figures-2015-Poverty-in-Israel-December-2015.pdf"]So amazing that 56% of Arabs live below the poverty line.[/URL][/QUOTE] [URL="http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/aub-and-unrwa-launch-survey-socioeconomic-status-palestine-refugees-lebanon"]Ahem[/URL].
[QUOTE=ScumBunny;50889185][URL="http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/aub-and-unrwa-launch-survey-socioeconomic-status-palestine-refugees-lebanon"]Ahem[/URL].[/QUOTE] It's a pretty unfair comparison to compare the status of Palestinian refugees, who aren't citizens of this country, here to the status of Israeli Arabs, who are citizens of Israel. I'm just trying to challenge the statement that "Israel is the best place for Muslims in the Middle East."
[QUOTE=Fayez;50889173]Because our infrastructure literally cannot handle the influx of so many people? I don't know if you've ever looked at a map of the Middle East, but this country is very small and nearly a third of the people in our country are refugees.[/quote] Same issue with Jordan, yet they have more land. It is as much about an influx of refugees, infrastructure and the dislike of the Palestinians. They've supposedly been refugees since Israel's Declaration of Independence. Quite clearly from the fact these people still live in refugee camps all these years on, Arabs don't care about Arabs. Saudi Arabia hasn't done shit... Iran hasn't done shit... UAE hasn't done shit for the Palestinians, but complain about those damn Jews. [QUOTE=Fayez;50889173] [URL="http://brookdale.jdc.org.il/_Uploads/dbsAttachedFiles/Facts-and-Figures-2015-Poverty-in-Israel-December-2015.pdf"]So amazing that 56% of Arabs live below the poverty line.[/URL] [/QUOTE] And yet are still supported by the government.
[QUOTE=Vintage Thatguy;50887413][...]not to mention koreans speak the same language [...][/QUOTE] This isn't quite true anymore. The separation has been long enough for a lot of words to diverge, [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ym3HnjBxPsw"]so it even makes sense to make a translation app at this point[/URL].
[QUOTE=DogGunn;50889333]Same issue with Jordan, yet they have more land. It is as much about an influx of refugees, infrastructure and the dislike of the Palestinians. They've supposedly been refugees since Israel's Declaration of Independence. Quite clearly from the fact these people still live in refugee camps all these years on, Arabs don't care about Arabs.[/QUOTE] It's not about size, most of Jordan is desert and a lot of Lebanon is mountainous. I'm obviously not going to be able to convince you that, yes, Arabs do care for other Arabs, so there's no point in wasting my breath.[QUOTE] Saudi Arabia hasn't done shit... Iran hasn't done shit... UAE hasn't done shit for the Palestinians, but complain about those damn Jews.[/QUOTE] Who would've thunk that the theocracies that have been fanning proxy wars throughout the Middle East would care for the people affected by it? Truly amazing deduction there man. And whenever a ME country says something about Israel, it's not because they have legitimate problems with it, it's because they hate Jews.
This reminds me, there was an Egyptian that refused to shake an Israeli's hand after losing to him in judo and then gave a weak ass bow to "make up" for it. Petty fuckin pathetic [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXkT8viICOc[/media]
[QUOTE=Fayez;50889211] I'm just trying to challenge the statement that "Israel is the best place for Muslims in the Middle East."[/QUOTE] What is?
[QUOTE=Scarabix;50888715]Hebrew in its current form is a made up language. Israël does not value the lives of its arab citizens highly if at all. I believe it is fair to speak out against Israël as this country is, to me and many others, an exacerbated picture of most things that are wrong in this world. Now, does competing against a country in the olympics validate its status as a sovereign state? Should team refugee get their own micronation next? Who knows. By now you'd think the punks would have started actually taking steps towards invading israel instead of pulling this middle school type shit at worldwide sporting events. It's not like the judoka decided that he'd be born in israel.[/QUOTE] Oh look, it's one of the most anti-semitic users on Facepunch who peddled conspiracies about Jews and Freemasons unironically. [editline]15th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Dougz;50889677]This reminds me, there was an Egyptian that refused to shake an Israeli's hand after losing to him in judo and then gave a weak ass bow to "make up" for it. Petty fuckin pathetic[/QUOTE] He did the bow because the sport absolutely requires it (like most martial arts, honour is very important), not because he wanted to. He ignored the handshake because it was optional.
I just watched a North Korean vaulter hug his Japanese competitor after beating his first-place score, and those countries despise each other. If they can set things aside in the name of sportsmanship, then the Arabs need to grow the fuck up and do the same.
[QUOTE=Scarabix;50888715]Hebrew in its current form is a made up language.[/QUOTE] what
[QUOTE=Fayez;50889609]It's not about size, most of Jordan is desert and a lot of Lebanon is mountainous. I'm obviously not going to be able to convince you that, yes, Arabs do care for other Arabs, so there's no point in wasting my breath. Who would've thunk that the theocracies that have been fanning proxy wars throughout the Middle East would care for the people affected by it? Truly amazing deduction there man. And whenever a ME country says something about Israel, it's not because they have legitimate problems with it, it's because they hate Jews.[/QUOTE] You make valid points and I wanted to address them, but that would derail the thread even more away from what we should be taking away from this story. Look, I'm Israeli and you're (according to your flagdog anyway) Lebanese. Unlike Israel and Egypt or Israel and Saudi Arabia our countries are openly hostile to each other. Shit, just a few years ago we were actively flinging missiles at each other. And yet here we are, talking with each other like sane human beings. We can disagree with each other or with others in the thread and we can argue over everything. But at the very least we acknowledge each other and each other's points of view. That's where dialogue starts. If one of us were, like the asshats of the Olympics or the nations who sent them, just declare FUCK NO NOT TALKING WITH THAT GUY and leave the thread he would just end up looking like an asshole. And you know why that is? Because other than being generally rude, that's doesn't actually do anything. Not acknowledging Israel or Israelis doesn't solve the Middle East. Nor does declaring Israel shouldn't exist, listing its many faults and wrongs or for the billionth times arguing that it's the worst country ever. None of that shit helps a single fucking Palestinian. The only way anyone is ever going to make anything better here is if people stop with this goddamn childish inane petty shit and start talking with each other like sane people. Fayez, less than 10 years ago your guys tried their best to murder me with flying exploding shit. My guys did their best to do it to you. And you know what? I don't hate you. I don't hate your country. I just hope one day we can get to the point we are with Jordan and Egypt, where they still hate our guts but at least we stopped trying to kill each other all the time and can actually visit each other without being shot. I think we can do that. With you, with the Palestinians, shit I'm sure even most Iranians would prefer that to what we have now. I don't know. I guess I just want you to know I would shake your hand. That's more important than any of this Israel thread of the week bullshit.
Suddenly the arabs / muslims lose every game from pulling out of them. Good job you bunch of children.
[QUOTE=OvB;50887524]American althetes would probably love to beat athletes from IS. It would be no contest anyway.[/QUOTE] Why say that with such certainty? I'm sure there are a few IS athletes who, with all glory to Allah, could win gold in some sport.
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