• Donald Trump Presidency would be a top 10 world threat
    322 replies, posted
[url]http://gawker.com/a-complete-list-of-donald-trump-s-business-disasters-1764151188#_ga=1.219244441.1821191624.1453747274[/url] Just do yourself a favour and look at the mans past. He's narcassitic to a fault. His name goes on everything, and he constantly fucks it up, doesn't even think about it, or doesn't even take the time to ask advisors if it's a good or bad idea. He's a moderately successful businessman who's sold himself as the fucking messiah of business. You have clearly bought it. When you recall arguments of Obama, are you recalling facts of his life before presidential duties? Because I can throw at you so much info about who Trump is down to the very nature of his personality that he wears so proudly on his sleeve. I think you'd be hard pressed to [B]seriously[/B] compare the two.
Since when is Gawker a trustworthy source for anything at all. I don't think Trump is a messiah of business; I, too, think he is a successful businessman who is selling himself as the messiah of business, but doing so to gain support during the primaries. That is actually the exact thing I am trying to say
[QUOTE=OrkO;49962568]Since when is Gawker a trustworthy source for anything at all. I don't think Trump is a messiah of business; I, too, think he is a successful businessman who is selling himself as the messiah of business, but doing so to gain support during the primaries. That is actually the exact thing I am trying to say[/QUOTE] Since Fisher used it to support his love of Trump And since saying "gawkers not a source here" doesn't actually invalidate those business ventures very shady past, what are you actually going to say in relation to his history as a failed business man Based on the timing of your post You didn't even fucking glance. [editline]18th March 2016[/editline] Those are all publicly viewable failures. To say that it's gawker bullshit is actually stupid. You can find those through independent sources, no one else bothered to compile all of his various failures so neatly.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49962574]Since Fisher used it to support his love of Trump And since saying "gawkers not a source here" doesn't actually invalidate those business ventures very shady past, what are you actually going to say in relation to his history as a failed business man Based on the timing of your post You didn't even fucking glance.[/QUOTE] I did glance, I noticed it was a gawker article, quickly looked through the individual ventures, and had heard of all of them, so there were no surprises there. He's not a failed businessman. He's made more money and had more business success than either of us will in our entire lives. He has had some failed business ventures for sure, but I don't know what that is meant to prove. That article also says nothing about neglecting the advice of his advisers.
[QUOTE=OrkO;49962601]I did glance, I noticed it was a gawker article, quickly looked through the individual ventures, and had heard of all of them, so there were no surprises there. He's not a failed businessman. He's made more money and had more business success than either of us will in our entire lives. He has had some failed business ventures for sure, but I don't know what that is meant to prove. That article also says nothing about neglecting the advice of his advisers.[/QUOTE] You skimmed it, but you know it says nothing about anything like that see this is a non answer None of that, not even Trump Mortgage, makes you think "Fuck this guy sure makes dumb decisions"
[QUOTE=OrkO;49962523]I have never said this, ever. My point throughout the more recent replies in this discussion has been that he is rich, successful, and well-liked, and those are often traits of people who know what they are doing. I have never said that [I]everyone[/I] with those traits would make a good leader, or that [I]everyone[/I] with those traits knows what they are doing, but I think very often they do. That being said, some people who are successful and well liked are frauds, incompetent, or generally horrible people! But I think those people are the exception rather than the norm. Furthermore, I have said that I think Trump has plenty of motivation to do well as a leader if he ever found himself in that position, because I think he would want to be remembered in a good way and cement a good legacy. This is far from fact, this is my own personal speculation. I have also said that in spite of Trump's failed business ventures or lies, I don't consider him a fraud or a con artist. Everybody lies, and all politicians sell themselves. Whether you want to argue that Trump has lied on a much greater scale than anyone else is your choice, go ahead if you like. But every politician lies, and Trump has acted no differently so far. Ultimately, my argument has not been that Trump would be a good leader, or is even a good person. My argument is only that there is not a lot of definite proof that he [I]wouldn't[/I] be - there's not really any good way to know. So, it is my personal opinion that, if he became the President, he would end up as a fairly average republican president, just like a Bush or a Reagan. I definitely don't think he would finish his presidency as the consensus worst president in US history, though. And I honestly believe it would be his full intention to do as well as he possibly could. And I don't think his presidency would be a huge international threat, or a disaster for this country. I actually think on the basis of political platforms that I'd rather see a Trump presidency than a Cruz presidency. But if you believe that a Trump presidency would be the worst thing ever to happen to this country because he is utterly a liar, a fraud, deceitful, and worthless, and that he has known no success or competency in his life, then that is your prerogative. When I read your arguments, I recall arguments much more intelligent and well-reasoned than yours about why Obama would be one of the worst things to happen to this country, full of facts and sources cherry picked to fit what they were arguing. And now, 8 years later, we know that to be totally untrue. And then I recall arguments made about why a Bush beating Gore was the death knell for this country. Again, obviously not true at all. I am just of the opinion that it's never quite as bad or as good as people predict. A lot of people seem to have extremely sensationalist views of the people they support or don't support, and it just seems ridiculous to me. I think Donald Trump is no exception to any of this. That is the only argument I have tried to make.[/QUOTE] We agree that if Trump believes what he says, his being elected president would be disastrous. Your belief that it wouldn't be is staked on the idea that he doesn't, and so far the only evidence you've presented to support that conclusion is "it's statistically unlikely that a successful businessman like him would be crazy". Statistical information cannot be applied to individual instances. It doesn't matter what the majority of people in some specific group he's a part of [I]tend[/I] to do, what matters are his individual circumstances and what he has demonstrated himself to be, through his actions and through words. The vast majority of [I]all[/I] people aren't criminal, but that doesn't mean "well, he's a human being, so statistically speaking he's likely to be innocent" is a counterargument to evidence of someone's guilt. If you can't separate individuals from groups, I don't know what to tell you. If you're going to ignore everything that you know about someone in favor of what you know about the arbitrary category you believe they're a part of, you're going to make some really fucking warped judgements. Yes. People argued that Obama being elected would be a disaster. They were wrong. That doesn't mean everyone who ever argues that any person being elected would be a disaster is wrong. If you're going to look at everything in general terms, there's nothing I can say that will change your mind. Every claim that can be made about anyone or anything has already been made and been wrong at some point. If you think that means no one can ever be right about anything or ever know anything, then so be it. and for fuck's sake, stop bringing up hillary. Even if you're right in the assumption that she's just as bad as Trump, all that means is that it'd be disastrous if either were elected. It's totally irrelevant to the question of whether or not Trump is incompetent.
[url]http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2016/03/04/3756135/trump-steaks-a-definitive-history/[/url] Trump Steaks, not Gawker article, maybe selling less than 50,000$ worth of steaks should be some indiciation? No? [url]http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2068227_2068229_2068223,00.html[/url] What about Trump Airlines, a fucking fantastic failure, an example of doing literally everything wrong in appealing to a captive market base. [url]http://money.cnn.com/2016/03/14/pf/trump-mortgage/[/url] What about this? This screams "Competent business man", right? “I’ve been hearing about this bubble for so many years from you and everybody else in your world, but I haven’t seen it. I will let you know when I see it.” That's his own words about it. You seriously have got to be kidding me if you read that and don't change your mind.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49962610]You skimmed it, but you know it says nothing about anything like that see this is a non answer None of that, not even Trump Mortgage, makes you think "Fuck this guy sure makes dumb decisions"[/QUOTE] That is not a non answer. If it said anything about that, I challenge you to point it out for me since I have not read the article with a scrutiny befitting of your standards. Second of all, I would not exactly be surprised, if I were you, that I didn't read that article. [url]http://gawker.com/will-this-truly-disgusting-fact-about-donald-trump-be-t-1764981903[/url] There is another fantastic article by gawker. Great. Just because it is gawker does not necessitate that the information in it is wrong per se, but it seems to carry a bit of bias, and the writing looks exactly what you would expect a celebrity gossip website's news articles to look like. And no, none of that really makes me think he is all that incompetent. He has made business ventures, some of which were failures, yes. But obviously he has had net success if he is worth between 4 and 5 billion dollars.
[QUOTE=OrkO;49962601]I did glance, I noticed it was a gawker article, quickly looked through the individual ventures, and had heard of all of them, so there were no surprises there. He's not a failed businessman. He's made more money and had more business success than either of us will in our entire lives. He has had some failed business ventures for sure, but I don't know what that is meant to prove. That article also says nothing about neglecting the advice of his advisers.[/QUOTE] If Trump had just invested his money instead of playing with it, he'd be richer than he is now. He was fucking born wealthy. This idea that he's a genius businessman is patently false.
I believe BDA broke down how getting 1 million in the 70s would allow you to invest in real estate making returns without doing any effort Trump instead has lost tons of money and tried to use his name as a sign of quality If that's not narcissism then literally nothing is
I suppose we should agree to disagree then. In spite of the accusations you make about Trump's character, I just don't see him being elected president as the downfall of this country, as long as he is confined by what is constitutionally allowed, what congress does, and what he personally thinks is reasonable (even if he isn't a messiah of business or a genius decisionmaker). I just don't see how any of this equates to Trump being a disastrous or catastrophic president [editline]19th March 2016[/editline] I easily accept that he wouldn't be a great, or even a good president, I simply argue that he wouldn't be a bad or terrible president. Again though, agree to disagree I guess
[QUOTE=OrkO;49962789]I suppose we should agree to disagree then. In spite of the accusations you make about Trump's character, I just don't see him being elected president as the downfall of this country, as long as he is confined by what is constitutionally allowed, what congress does, and what he personally thinks is reasonable (even if he isn't a messiah of business or a genius decisionmaker). I just don't see how any of this equates to Trump being a disastrous or catastrophic president [editline]19th March 2016[/editline] I easily accept that he wouldn't be a great, or even a good president, I simply argue that he wouldn't be a bad or terrible president. Again though, agree to disagree I guess[/QUOTE] what would be a terrible president, if you don't mind my asking what exactly would someone have to do to make you think "man that guy would be a terrible president"
[QUOTE=OrkO;49962789]I suppose we should agree to disagree then. In spite of the accusations you make about Trump's character, I just don't see him being elected president as the downfall of this country, as long as he is confined by what is constitutionally allowed, what congress does, and what he personally thinks is reasonable (even if he isn't a messiah of business or a genius decisionmaker). I just don't see how any of this equates to Trump being a disastrous or catastrophic president [editline]19th March 2016[/editline] I easily accept that he wouldn't be a great, or even a good president, I simply argue that he wouldn't be a bad or terrible president. Again though, agree to disagree I guess[/QUOTE] There is considerable damage that can be done within the bounds of the constitution, particularly given recent precedent. For instance, the War Powers Resolution allows the President to deploy military forces in armed conflict without any Congressional action for up to 90 days.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;49962801]what would be a terrible president, if you don't mind my asking what exactly would someone have to do to make you think "man that guy would be a terrible president"[/QUOTE] Look at the last 9 or 10 we've had. There's your answer.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49962737]I believe BDA broke down how getting 1 million in the 70s would allow you to invest in real estate making returns without doing any effort Trump instead has lost tons of money and tried to use his name as a sign of quality If that's not narcissism then literally nothing is[/QUOTE] Sounds more like confirmation bias.
[QUOTE=wystan;49963285]Sounds more like confirmation bias.[/QUOTE] Hardly. You could take that million and invest in real estate opportunities at that level, a level that is typically very hard to get to without that kind of loan, that would net you profit over time without having to do anything. Then you take the considerable profits of that, and move up a tier, and continue onwards. It's not hard math to figure out nor is it "confirmation bias".
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49962737]I believe BDA broke down how getting 1 million in the 70s would allow you to invest in real estate making returns without doing any effort Trump instead has lost tons of money and tried to use his name as a sign of quality If that's not narcissism then literally nothing is[/QUOTE] That's not all he got from his father and the government though. He got more loans and more government/bank bailouts. The total amount he loaned im sure adds up to like 100 million dollars.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49963359]Hardly. You could take that million and invest in real estate opportunities at that level, a level that is typically very hard to get to without that kind of loan, that would net you profit over time without having to do anything. Then you take the considerable profits of that, and move up a tier, and continue onwards. It's not hard math to figure out nor is it "confirmation bias".[/QUOTE] It literally is confirmation bias though
Trump is in no way a successful "businessman". He's an almost perfect example of a marketer though. With all the sleaze and untruths included in that field. His only ventures that aren't causing consistent problems are his real estate ones, and to be honest if you can fuck up real estate, just get yourself lobotomised. It's one of the few markets that will always have demand, that can always turn a profit. Especially when your introduction to the market was a "small loan of a million dollars" from a [I]family member[/I] in the 70s. Buy up some land, get some cheapo labour to build on it, boom massive return. Buy up some shitty apartments, do the minimum required work to make them presentable, boom constant return in the form of rent. Almost every thing else he's tried has been a travesty. His casinos and resorts have filed for bankruptcy multiple times, these are ventures that print money. If that's not a severe amount of managerial failure then I don't know what is. His entire "net worth" (which fluctuates based on his feelings, he's admitted this several times now), is based on his name and nothing else. He's a marketer, not a businessman. He's a narcissist, not someone who should be in charge of a country of hundreds of millions. And so god help your international relations as he will get totally fixated on the smallest insult from the smallest member of any government ever as he's a petulant child who cannot understand that people dislike him. This happens quite regularly on Twitter for fucks sake, [B]Twitter[/B]. (And before anyone tries to call me out on sucking John Oliver off, I knew all of this before his segment because I'm not a total imbecile incapable of researching candidates running for powerful governmental positions)
[QUOTE=hexpunK;49965204]*drops mic*[/QUOTE] This guy gets it.
You would have to be extremely incompetent if you couldn't take a million dollars, invest it and return profit, especially with real estate which is really the only thing that he's actually been "successful" with. The reason that all of his businesses fail and will continue to fail is because they all have the same thing in common, greed. He's never owned a business that was created to do anything other than put money in his pocket. He's not an innovator and will never create anything that would actually benefit anybody other than himself. He tries to take shit that people have already done and slaps his ugly ass pompous name on it hoping that it'll become a "success" which has failed pretty much every time, and we can't let him do that to America. There might be no coming back from the damage that this fascist is capable of doing. A lot of people define success by the amount of money you make which is why they think so highly of him. I see success very differently. For me it's not really about how much you make, it's the amount of value that you give back to the world. I could have all the money in the world and it would mean nothing to me if I didn't make it honestly while providing as much value to the world as I possibly could. This clown isn't adding any value to the world, he's actually removing it while he destroys all the progress we've made as civilized human beings by promoting more intolerance and ignorance. I feel like every Trump supporter I've ever talked to is just as arrogant and ignorant as the asshole himself. I really don't see how he could possibly make this country great again when it's people just like him that are destroying it. It's these people that make me ashamed to call myself an American. You want an intelligent business man to save us? Then you elect someone who's actually doing great things for this planet like Elon Musk or Bill Gates who've made more money then Trump ever will and it's because they brought real value into the world with what they created. You shouldn't settle for a con artist like Donald Trump. You could also vote for the other guy who's been fighting for equality and human rights almost his entire life and is actually running for president. The first truly honest politician in history who can't be bought by anyone is running for president and everyone's scared of him because he's a "socialist" and they've been trained to associate socialism with communism so they automatically dismiss him without actually looking into what he's proposing which is such an ignorant thing to do. In this day and age I believe we need a government that's a little more social with the people they're governing. We all live on this rock together and it's about time that people start treating each other like equals so we can stop fighting over stupid shit like greed and do what's best for our future generations and humanity as a whole. Everyone deserves to be healthy and educated regardless of income and I don't care how unrealistic it may sound to you, it's possible and we shouldn't accept anything less for human beings. Bottom line is this is a very important election. It's pretty much the battle between good and evil. If anybody is the false prophet / antichrist that's been prophesied, it's Donald Trump. He's hands down the most terrible person who's ever ran for president and if he actually succeeds then god help us. Hilary wouldn't be much better because she's a sellout and you can't trust anything she says, but at least we'd have a much better chance at avoiding another world war that we don't need. I really don't want to have to choose between a giant douche and a turd sandwhich this time, not when we have someone who's so genuine and is doing everything he can to help fix our corrupt system that Trump or Hilary would only strengthen and add more corruption too. I'm not a religious person and I don't usually do this very often but I'm praying that good has a chance to trump evil this election.
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