Donald Trump Presidency would be a top 10 world threat
322 replies, posted
Since when have politicians been trustworthy?
[QUOTE=Ridge;49956183]Since when have politicians been trustworthy?[/QUOTE]
I'm sick of this equivocation bullshit.
Yes, all politicians are untrustworthy. That doesn't mean all politicians are equally untrustworthy.
[QUOTE=Jordax;49954573]
They are just lining up to get those shots?
Well chap, I guess that one of those two parties isn't exactly showing the truth here.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Shitposting" - Pascall))[/highlight][/QUOTE]
american facepunchers
if anyone ever gives you shit for being american because you have posters like fisher, just remember that european FP has posters like jordaxx - who unlike johnfisher who has popped into existence because of trump, jordaxx has never stopped making posts like this
we'll trade you Jordax the """"refugee"""" exposer for john "pulled myself up by my own cockroach infested bootstraps" fisher
[editline]18th March 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=RichyZ;49957258]""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""refugees""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""[/QUOTE]
hahahahah hivemind
At least Johnfisher is funny with his unironic use of 'make america great again
[QUOTE=J!NX;49954009]I agree, what we really need though is a slight depression just like the one in the 30's
[IMG]http://history105.libraries.wsu.edu/fall2014/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2014/08/great-depression-food-line.jpg[/IMG]
make america great again[/QUOTE]
That looks more like a Sanders thing
[QUOTE=Tsyolin;49956083]To be honest it's happening everyone, not just on Facepunch. I see it a lot on Facebook. All the huge amount of anti-Trump shit that pops up everywhere doesn't really change much because anyone that already hated Trump is still gonna be hating Trump where as "on the fence" voters might be swayed towards Trump simply out of how childish and annoying some of those anti-Trump posts are.
The problem in regards to Facepunch is that everyone is constantly giving Trump attention and it only really helps his cause at this point. Every day there's a new post or two about how shitty he is that I imagine some people are impressed by the amount of vitriol the guy can induce.[/QUOTE]
Okay but for every uninformed or inane protestor comparing trump to Hitler, there are more people who have legitimate grievances with Trumps platform, his rhetoric, and what little he's told us about his policies. The loudest people shouldn't be taken as a representative of a whole, and that's true with Trumps supporters as well as his detractors.
[QUOTE=Protocol7;49953946]haha yet another comparison to hitler, take that donald!!!![/QUOTE]
there there
Because he wants to deport illegal immigrants and strengthen our economy by encouraging Americans to become a competitive, self-sufficient, and skilled workforce?
[QUOTE=BenJammin';49957962]Because he wants to deport illegal immigrants and strengthen our economy by encouraging Americans to become a competitive, self-sufficient, and skilled workforce?[/QUOTE]
No need to ask a rhetorical question, they explain why he's on the list:
[quote]Introduction
The businessman and political novice, Donald Trump, has built a strong lead in the Republican party primary, and looks the firm favourite to be the party's candidate in the US presidential election in November.
Analysis
Thus far Mr Trump has given very few details of his policies - and these tend to be prone to constant revision - but a few themes have become apparent. First, he has been exceptionally hostile towards free trade, including notably NAFTA, and has repeatedly labelled China as a "currency manipulator". He has also taken an exceptionally right-wing stance on the Middle East and jihadi terrorism, including, among other things, advocating the killing of families of terrorists and launching a land incursion into Syria to wipe out IS (and acquire its oil). In the event of a Trump victory, his hostile attitude to free trade, and alienation of Mexico and China in particular, could escalate rapidly into a trade war - and at the least scupper the Trans-Pacific Partnership between the US and 11 other American and Asian states signed in February 2016. His militaristic tendencies towards the Middle East (and ban on all Muslim travel to the US) would be a potent recruitment tool for jihadi groups, increasing their threat both within the region and beyond.
Conclusion
Although we do not expect Mr Trump to defeat his most likely Democratic contender, Hillary Clinton, there are risks to this forecast, especially in the event of a terrorist attack on US soil or a sudden economic downturn. It is worth noting that the innate hostility within the Republican hierarchy towards Mr Trump, combined with the inevitable virulent Democratic opposition, will see many of his more radical policies blocked in Congress - albeit such internal bickering will also undermine the coherence of domestic and foreign policymaking.[/quote]
[url]https://gfs.eiu.com/Article.aspx?articleType=gr&articleId=2876[/url]
No mention of encouraging Americans to become anything and illegal immigration isn't directly referenced, just his antagonistic attitude towards Mexico. Which is hard to deny.
When I see a trump supporter post or speak i automatically assume they have no idea what politics is.
You supporters like him for his personality, not his stances on political topics. I know this because his stances on political topics are vague at best. "How are we going to create jobs?? WELL WE'RE GOING TO CREATE JOBS AND IF YOU TRY TO STOP ME ILL PUNCH YOU RIGHT IN THE FACE!!!"
He has no stances on political topics. He has no comprehensive political agenda. He treats this whole thing like a reality TV show.
This election is literally an IQ test for america and man those of you voting for trump are failing miserably.
Make america dumb again.
Regardless of my rhetoric, the good news is that while trump holds the majority for the republicans, he holds the minority as an electorate in the country as a whole.
All I can say for trump supporters is educate yourselves, see people like this for who they are and for the love of god stop watching reality TV, It's melting your brains!!!
I know jack shit about U.S politics, but the president could be forced to resign right?
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;49954045]Yeah, it will benefit us by giving a wake up call to the millennials and other non-voters TO GET UP AND FUCKING VOTE before we let someone in office who ruins our global relationships and trashes our economy.[/QUOTE]
As a non-voter, give me a candidate that's actually worth the time and effort of casting a ballot in the first place. If both nominees are the same flavor of bullshit with different food dye, which has been the case for the past 20 or 30 years now, I have no incentive to choose. They'll both do the same shit in office, it's not even really a choice. We're screwed to an equal degree if we get Hilary or Trump, so if it comes down to those two I'm probably not wasting my time.
[QUOTE=The bird Man;49958382]I know jack shit about U.S politics, but the president could be forced to resign right?[/QUOTE]
The President can be impeached by Congress - an article of impeachment must be passed by the House of Representatives, then a trial is held by the Senate. On conviction, he would be removed from office.
Introducing articles of impeachment can cause the President to resign, as happened with Nixon, but I doubt Trump will be smart enough to do that.
Do you think Clinton would be smart enough to do so? Or would she just say she deserves this office and ignore Congress?
Ok If Trump got into power, majority of Americas will think his racism and xenophobia is an acceptable norm. A racist President will raise a racist citizens.
[QUOTE=Ridge;49958511]Do you think Clinton would be smart enough to do so? Or would she just say she deserves this office and ignore Congress?[/QUOTE]
She would be smart enough to resign if she thought she would lose in both the Senate, and in the court of public opinion. If she thought she would not be removed from office, she would fight it out in the Senate (like Bill did), and if she thought she would lose from what is clearly partisan bias (ie. most Americans would not think she was actually guilty), she would fight it out to save face. But if she thought both the Senate and the people would find her guilty, she would be smart enough to cut and run, just like Nixon did.
[QUOTE=gman003-main;49958415]The President can be impeached by Congress - an article of impeachment must be passed by the House of Representatives, then a trial is held by the Senate. On conviction, he would be removed from office.
Introducing articles of impeachment can cause the President to resign, as happened with Nixon, but I doubt Trump will be smart enough to do that.[/QUOTE]
It's important to note that this can't/won't happen unless the president is charged with a crime or severe misconduct. You can't just impeach the president for any old damn reason.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;49959289]It's important to note that this can't/won't happen unless the president is charged with a crime or severe misconduct. You can't just impeach the president for any old damn reason.[/QUOTE]
The Constitution says impeachment may occur for "Treason, Bribery, or other High Crimes and Misdemeanors". While this is not defined in the Constitution, in English law this covers crimes that can only be committed by government officials - abuse of authority, misuse of government property, refusal to obey lawful order, perjury, negligence, and so on.
Successful impeachments (including resignations before trial) in the United States include aiding the enemy, drunkenness and unlawful rulings, treason, drunkenness, corruption, bribery, abuse of power, corruption and tax evasion, tax evasion, bribery and perjury, perjury, sexual assault and obstruction of justice, false financial statements, and whatever the hell the actual charge would have been for Richard Nixon.
So while you're correct in that you can't just impeach the president for any old damn reason, the bar is not quite so high as it might ought to be.
There's also the question of, if the House does decide to just impeach the President for shits and giggles, who can take action? I do not know of any precedent for this. The obvious candidate is the Supreme Court to declare the impeachment improper, but there are no established means for that. The only check on the power of impeachment is that the House must indict, and the Senate must convict. If you can get both halves of Congress in on it, you could depose the President for a parking ticket.
[QUOTE=gman003-main;49959512]If you can get both halves of Congress in on it, you could depose the President for a parking ticket.[/QUOTE]
jeremy, quick, we've got everyone in on this, now all you gotta do is forge a document that incriminates the president ASAP
jeremy
no
this is a blockbuster receipt, this won't do jere- oh fuck it whatever works
I'm a pretty left-leaning individual, but I do not understand why everybody thinks that Trump being elected president would be the worst thing in the world. I'd like to hear some peoples' opinions on why that is. My thought process is that Trump seems like a guy who cares about himself and his image, and I really don't think he would want to be remembered as a bad president. Because of that, I think he would utilize all of the resources at his disposal - namely a decent cabinet of ordinary politicians - and end up as a fairly average (maybe slightly below average, maybe slightly above average) conservative president. I think he would tone down his rhetoric to an acceptable level after winning the republican nomination, and would end up saying and doing the kinds of things you would expect from a republican candidate.
I mean, I could be dead wrong, but I just find it really hard to believe that Trump would blunder his way through four years as president, making horrible decisions at every turn. I think he would just be a pretty average republican president, which, though not desirable in my opinion, would certainly not be a huge international threat or a disaster for our country
[editline]18th March 2016[/editline]
Then again I also don't believe for a second that Trump would ever actually try to authorize some of the plans he has claimed during debates that he would instate, like a border wall or mandatory registration of Muslims with the government. I suppose if he actually ended up trying to do some of those things, that would be a different story
[QUOTE=OrkO;49960094]I'm a pretty left-leaning individual, but I do not understand why everybody thinks that Trump being elected president would be the worst thing in the world. I'd like to hear some peoples' opinions on why that is. My thought process is that Trump seems like a guy who cares about himself and his image, and I really don't think he would want to be remembered as a bad president. Because of that, I think he would utilize all of the resources at his disposal - namely a decent cabinet of ordinary politicians - and end up as a fairly average (maybe slightly below average, maybe slightly above average) conservative president. I think he would tone down his rhetoric to an acceptable level after winning the republican nomination, and would end up saying and doing the kinds of things you would expect from a republican candidate.
I mean, I could be dead wrong, but I just find it really hard to believe that Trump would blunder his way through four years as president, making horrible decisions at every turn. I think he would just be a pretty average republican president, which, though not desirable in my opinion, would certainly not be a huge international threat or a disaster for our country
[editline]18th March 2016[/editline]
Then again I also don't believe for a second that Trump would ever actually try to authorize some of the plans he has claimed during debates that he would instate, like a border wall or mandatory registration of Muslims with the government. I suppose if he actually ended up trying to do some of those things, that would be a different story[/QUOTE]
So your reason why you don't think Trump being elected would be a catastrophe is that you think he's a serial liar and that he won't actually do what he says he will?
Seriously, think about that for a moment.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;49960158]So your reason why you don't think Trump being elected would be a catastrophe is that you think he's a serial liar and that he won't actually do what he says he will?
Seriously, think about that for a moment.[/QUOTE]
What universe do you live in where people actually fulfill (or even try to fulfill) all of their campaign promises? Or where politicians don't lie about things?
[editline]18th March 2016[/editline]
And the alternative is what, Clinton? Who has actually been proven to have lied about many, many things? Why aren't people proclaiming that Hillary being elected would also be a disaster, why just Trump?
[QUOTE=OrkO;49960186]What universe do you live in where people actually fulfill (or even try to fulfill) all of their campaign promises? Or where politicians don't lie about things?[/QUOTE]
that's the thing, Trump isn't a politician
he's a populist demagogue riding a wave of nationalist zealotry
In the real world, you have to compromise on your ideals and principles to make things work. Otherwise things go to shit. Trump has demonstrated a complete disregard for reason and rationality.
There is nothing more terrifying than someone who buys into their own marketing. I think Trump actually, sincerely believes that he is an unparalleled genius, and that even if his plans are clearly and demonstrably suicidal, he'd still follow through on them purely out of faith in his own brilliance.
[editline]18th March 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=OrkO;49960186]And the alternative is what, Clinton? Who has actually been proven to have lied about many, many things? Why aren't people proclaiming that Hillary being elected would also be a disaster, why just Trump?[/QUOTE]
It's a matter of scale. Hillary may be a shill, but Trump is a pathological liar. He lies fucking constantly, even when he doesn't have to, about fucking everything. He lies about things he's seen, he lies about what other people say, he lies about his past accomplishments, he lies about his financial status and business exploits and wealth. He's a confidence man.
Hillary may be a weasel, but Trump is a fucking con man.
[I]And on top of that[/I], even when he's being honest, the things he says are [I]still[/I] fucking insane.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;49960252]that's the thing, Trump isn't a politician
he's a populist demagogue riding a wave of nationalist zealotry
In the real world, you have to compromise on your ideals and principles to make things work. Otherwise things go to shit. Trump has demonstrated a complete disregard for reason and rationality.
There is nothing more terrifying than someone who buys into their own marketing. I think Trump actually, sincerely believes that he is an unparalleled genius, and that even if his plans are clearly and demonstrably suicidal, he'd still follow through on them purely out of faith in his own brilliance.
[/QUOTE]
I think this is a much more well-reasoned argument. Still, I think that sounds a bit idealistic. I don't think politics in general is composed only of politicians who simply have to "compromise on their ideals to make things work," and that Trump is some horribly dishonest outlier. I think, simply put, that a lot of politicians lie to get ahead. Especially during something like a primary election, where you have to appeal to party extremists. I think Trump is no different in that regard.
[quote]
[editline]18th March 2016[/editline]
It's a matter of scale. Hillary may be a shill, but Trump is a pathological liar. He lies fucking constantly, even when he doesn't have to, about fucking everything. He lies about things he's seen, he lies about what other people say, he lies about his past accomplishments, he lies about his financial status and business exploits and wealth.
Hillary may be a weasel, but Trump is a fucking con man.
[I]And on top of that[/I], even when he's being honest, the things he says are [I]still[/I] fucking insane.[/QUOTE]
I don't know if I could call the lies Trump has told any worse than those Hillary has told. They have both lied, and across her entire career I'd wager Hillary has done a fair share more of it.
I just find it difficult to believe extreme opinions about the man. Some people say he would be the greatest thing to happen to this country, and I definitely don't believe that. But then others, such as yourself, seem to think he would be the worst, and I don't really believe that either. I don't think he would be all that great, and there are others I would much prefer in office, but I don't think it would be a catastrophe. It seems like everyone is so split, I don't know why there are so few people who occupy the middle ground
[QUOTE=OrkO;49960186]What universe do you live in where people actually fulfill (or even try to fulfill) all of their campaign promises? Or where politicians don't lie about things?[/QUOTE]
To be fair to all honest politicians out there, I think many promises are not fulfilled because the reality within the governmental machine, which is kept hidden from everyone [B]not[/B] working for it, is that it'd be nigh-impossible to achieve said goals.
I think that many politicians fail many of their promises because once they get in the government, they discover that implementing said measures isn't easy, or feasible.
[QUOTE=T553412;49960321]To be fair to all honest politicians out there, I think many promises are not fulfilled because the reality within the governmental machine, which is kept hidden from everyone [B]not[/B] working for it, is that it'd be nigh-impossible to achieve said goals.
I think that many politicians fail many of their promises because once they get in the government, they discover that implementing said measures isn't easy, or feasible.[/QUOTE]
I understand and believe that as well. But for the sake of my argument, I was only trying to say that there are many politicians as well who do mislead voters about their real intentions just to get into office. I think both are true though
[QUOTE=OrkO;49960300]I think this is a much more well-reasoned argument. Still, I think that sounds a bit idealistic. I don't think a lot of politicians simply have to "compromise on their ideals to make things work." I think, simply put, that a lot of politicians lie to get ahead. Especially during something like a primary election, where you have to appeal to party extremists. I think Trump is no different in that regard.
I don't know if I could call the lies Trump has told any worse than those Hillary has told. They have both lied, and across her entire career I'd wager Hillary has done a fair share more of it.
I just find it difficult to believe extreme opinions about the man. Some people say he would be the greatest thing to happen to this country, and I definitely don't believe that. But then others, such as yourself, seem to think he would be the worst, and I don't really believe that either. I don't think he would be all that great, and there are others I would much prefer in office, but I don't think it would be a catastrophe. It seems like everyone is so split, I don't know why there are so few people who occupy the middle ground[/QUOTE]
I'm just explaining why Trump wouldn't compromise on his promises. He has no reason to.
For any other candidate, I would agree with you. But this is different. It isn't just one side of the political spectrum that's saying a Trump presidency would be a disaster. He's been roundly condemned by people from all sides.
The only somewhat reasonable argument that his election wouldn't be disastrous is "maybe he's just pretending to be an insane authoritarian?"
what does that tell you?
[editline]18th March 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=T553412;49960321]To be fair to all honest politicians out there, I think many promises are not fulfilled because the reality within the governmental machine, which is kept hidden from everyone [B]not[/B] working for it, is that it'd be nigh-impossible to achieve said goals.
I think that many politicians fail many of their promises because once they get in the government, they discover that implementing said measures isn't easy, or feasible.[/QUOTE]
Many of the promises Trump has made, like deporting all illegal immigrants and bringing back torture, are impossible. They're illegal.
His argument why they are possible? "I don't think they're illegal".
This is the kind of deluded egomaniac you're dealing with.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;49960349]I'm just explaining why Trump wouldn't compromise on his promises. He has no reason to.
For any other candidate, I would agree with you. But this is different. It isn't just one side of the political spectrum that's saying a Trump presidency would be a disaster. He's been roundly condemned by people from all sides.
The only somewhat reasonable argument that his election wouldn't be disastrous is "maybe he's just pretending to be an insane authoritarian?"
what does that tell you?[/QUOTE]
But I don't think that's the only reason. I also think that his plans wouldn't work and couldn't possibly be authorized, because so few would support such extreme measures (which may not even be constitutional). But I think Trump is a smart guy and I think he probably knows that. Also I think the reason he has been so condemned by Republicans is because he has a history of holding liberal views and supporting Democrats, and even now has some pretty moderate views for a Republican.
[QUOTE=OrkO;49960387]But I don't think that's the only reason. I also think that his plans wouldn't work and couldn't possibly be authorized, because so few would support such extreme measures (which may not even be constitutional). But I think Trump is a smart guy and I think he probably knows that. Also I think the reason he has been so condemned by Republicans is because he has a history of holding liberal views and supporting Democrats, and even now has some pretty moderate views for a Republican.[/QUOTE]
What makes you think Trump is a smart guy? His childish theatrics and tantrums? His continual demonstration of his complete and total ignorance of the government, the role of the president, and the laws of the country? His gullibility, his inability to directly address questions of policy, his history as a charlatan?
Seriously, do you actually have a reason to believe he knows what he's doing?
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