Swat team throw stun grenade into toddler’s crib during drug bust
266 replies, posted
they didn't KNOW there were weapons on the premises considering the guy they thought was there wasn't even there. rather than go in expecting (or in my opinion SEEKING) armed confrontation, as has been said again and again, why not just wait until the jackass leaves the house and arrest him? 'accidents happen' is not at all appropriate when these accidents have resulted in innocents being killed and maimed and having their property and pets destroyed
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;44956162]they didn't KNOW there were weapons on the premises considering the guy they thought was there wasn't even there. rather than go in expecting (or in my opinion SEEKING) armed confrontation, as has been said again and again, why not just wait until the jackass leaves the house and arrest him? 'accidents happen' is not at all appropriate when these accidents have resulted in innocents being killed and maimed and having their property and pets destroyed[/QUOTE]
Ban cars then since car accidents result in innocents being killed and maimed and destroying property.
[quote] a man suspected of having drugs and weapons stashed at the residence.[/quote]
No, they don't know, thats why they go in expecting there to be even if its just suspect, because the worst thing you can do is go in there and assume there isn't when there could be. Because that can and will get you and your team mates killed.
With the drugs and suspected weapons, if they tried arresting him while he was out of the house, for all they know, he could pull a gun on them. Wheras 3am in his residence (as far as they knew) it gives the swat team the best advantage to pull off the raid without fatalities.
Man, you guys really need to fucking read up on swat procedure and understand why they do what they do.
So instead of flash banging rooms, the cops should just go in guns blazing and not try to neutralize suspects without shooting them.
[QUOTE=AJisAwesome15;44955671]man this thread brought out all the fuckin weirdos[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I never expect my thread to come to this. :(
Well personally I don't know why they don't just jump the suspects when they go out for groceries or something.
[QUOTE=Mingebox;44956337]Well personally I don't know why they don't just jump the suspects when they go out for groceries or something.[/QUOTE]
That's really the question that should have been asked. Instead of all this "all cops are bad" non sense
But from what I can guess its because its a controlled enviorment
[QUOTE=Mingebox;44956337]Well personally I don't know why they don't just jump the suspects when they go out for groceries or something.[/QUOTE]
Way harder to make an unnoticed approach and higher chance of civilian casualties.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;44952120]i can see where he's coming from. if you take money to do evil things then how does that not make you at least somewhat evil?[/QUOTE]
have you ever played the game papers please? it demonstrates this moral conflict in such a brilliantly eloquent way.
doing something morally questionable is the difference between starvation and feeding their family, paying rent, paying bills, paying off loans, putting their kids through college.
which do you think someone is going to prioritize: their spouse and children, or someone they've never met, someone that they've been led to believe is a bad person anyway?
it's not malicious, it's unfortunate. cops don't try to cover their asses because they don't care or don't feel guilty - they do it because they're afraid of going to jail just like anyone else.
[QUOTE=AJisAwesome15;44955671]man this thread brought out all the fuckin weirdos[/QUOTE]
This thread has honestly made me concerned about this forum's community.
[QUOTE=Perfumly;44953376]I quit my job, I do pretty much just do whatever to stay afloat. I own a house so I collect about 1400 a month straight cash in rent and just kinda do whatever else. I live very well and I don't really have to work, which is dope as heck. Unfortunately no way to get around property tax though.
[editline]30th May 2014[/editline]
Maybe you should read the rest of my posts and take note of the fact that I agree with you boo bear[/QUOTE]
Should I be surprised the jobless fellow is the cop hater.
[QUOTE=RustledJimmys;44958055]Should I be surprised the jobless fellow is the cop hater.[/QUOTE]
wasn't yawmwen also jobless
I don't understand the hate for cops here, the father was suspected of having illegal drugs and weapons in the house, what do you want the SWAT team to do? Knock on the door and ask them politely to be arrested? No. The SWAT team is going to do what they are meant to do, raid the house that has potentially armed individuals in it, and of course they're going to use a Flashbang to incapacitate any said individuals. If anything this is 100% entirely the mother and fathers fault, why keep your child in the same house with illegal weapons and drugs and expect nothing to happen when a SWAT team comes busting in your door? This is entirely a case of bad parenting and just general stupidity to the max.
[QUOTE=RustledJimmys;44958055]Should I be surprised the jobless fellow is the cop hater.[/QUOTE]
Should I be surprised that when you run out of valid points you use weak insults?
[QUOTE=zakedodead;44958429]Should I be surprised that when you run out of valid points you use weak insults?[/QUOTE]
nice ie avatar, NERD!
5 kill killstreak
flashbang ready
press ↑ to deploy
[QUOTE=zakedodead;44958429]Should I be surprised that when you run out of valid points you use weak insults?[/QUOTE]
I've stated in the thread that I'm not trying to argue or come up with points. I'm just laughing at people.
[QUOTE=Mingebox;44956337]Well personally I don't know why they don't just jump the suspects when they go out for groceries or something.[/QUOTE]
Is it really that easy, though? In a lot of urban neighborhoods, cops lying in wait for a guy stand out like a sore thumb, and plainclothes officers and unmarked vehicles are in short supply. Unless they're after someone very important, it's probably a lot more time efficient to go around kicking doors on your own schedule instead of waiting around outside for someone to leave the house.
Not saying that no-knock warrants served at night are a good idea, but there are reasons the police do less stakeouts the old-school way. The over-reliance on SWAT raids is sort of a "if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" problem. With SWAT teams intended to minimize police casualties when responding to dangerous situations, it becomes natural to treat every potentially armed suspect as if they merit the full SWAT treatment. After all, for a police chief, it's hard to justify sending regular officers to serve a warrant, especially if any of them happen to be hurt or killed.
In the end, SWAT teams still serve a purpose, it's just that our modern overuse of them and the nature of the threats they face now also predisposes them towards harming innocents by accident. Calling for SWAT officers to quit their jobs because they might accidentally hurt a civilian is missing the forest for the trees.
[QUOTE=Perfumly;44951954]guilty until proven innocent.
I'm tired of the argument that not all cops are bad. All cops are bad, whether they know it or not. All cops work for a completely corrupt entity. No respek.[/QUOTE]
Man, that line goes on my wall. No wonder you were demodded.
[QUOTE=Perfumly;44954288]No you don't understand what I'm saying at all if that's your response. Sorry.
I don't know where you're getting the idea that I think all officers should just up and quit, but I do think they should either protest or quit when they are directly asked to commit injustices.[/QUOTE]
Every post this guy makes makes me feel like he's involved in some sort of crime, hell maybe even running a crime business.
[QUOTE=RustledJimmys;44958055]Should I be surprised the jobless fellow is the cop hater.[/QUOTE]
Mate what's your net worth?
Because being jobless at 20 and almost 200k in the positive isn't a bad way to live
[editline]31st May 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Crazy;44959391]Man, that line goes on my wall. No wonder you were demodded.[/QUOTE]
Yeah that was probably my worst post ITT, doesn't convey my actual thoughts on the subject well at all. I would suggest reading my later posts, they're less inflammatory.
Also I was demodded only because I hadn't modded actively for like over a year. I was a wonderful moderator :)
[editline]31st May 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=CuppethCake;44958419]I don't understand the hate for cops here, the father was suspected of having illegal drugs and weapons in the house, what do you want the SWAT team to do? Knock on the door and ask them politely to be arrested? No. The SWAT team is going to do what they are meant to do, raid the house that has potentially armed individuals in it, and of course they're going to use a Flashbang to incapacitate any said individuals. If anything this is 100% entirely the mother and fathers fault, why keep your child in the same house with illegal weapons and drugs and expect nothing to happen when a SWAT team comes busting in your door? This is entirely a case of bad parenting and just general stupidity to the max.[/QUOTE]
Oh facepunch
[editline]31st May 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=gk99;44955770]k I'm going to steal your tv now
so who you gonna call to stop that[/QUOTE]
I honestly don't believe you could get my huge television off my wall without my help.
And if you stole it when I wasn't home I would call my homeowners insurance agency, not the police
Basically what I'm saying is there's no conceivable situation where someone from facepunch breaking into my house would warrant emergency response.
[QUOTE=Perfumly;44960328]
Basically what I'm saying is there's no conceivable situation where someone from facepunch breaking into my house would warrant emergency response.[/QUOTE]
I have broken into your home and tied you to a bed using metal chains. You have a phone in your hand. It is only able to dial 911. A saw is slowly heading for your balls. (p.s paramedics and firefighters will be shot.)
[QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;44960472]I have broken into your home and tied you to a bed using metal chains.[/QUOTE]
Don't threaten me with a good time.
Police brutality is a big & serious problem in the US. I wouldn't be so mad if they didn't always get away with it...
[QUOTE=Talvy;44960650]Police brutality is a big & serious problem in the US. I wouldn't be so mad if they didn't always get away with it...[/QUOTE]
This isn't really a case of police brutality though.
[QUOTE=RayvenQ;44960689]This isn't really a case of police brutality though.[/QUOTE]
Meh, I think this is debatable simply for the fact that they entered with excessive force right off the bat. You don't need a SWAT Team to bring down a family man who sells some dope. They didn't do any research on this guy at all, and instead of just making a clean arrest when he leaves the house they bust down his door at 3am.
If something like that happened to me at 3am (Or a lot of people that I know) I would probably be dead because I would be disoriented and my house just got broken into and it's a lot quicker for me to reach for a gun than it is for me to dial a phone and speak with a 911 operator.
No, but this thread has switched subjects.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;44955962]so basically you're not allowed to criticize people that provide a service? are we not allowed to criticize any health services since we have to call them up when we're sick? are we not allowed to criticize fireservices since we call them up when our shits on fire?[/QUOTE]
oh but fire and health services are good people
but all police officers are bad people worse than hitler, even our resident facepunch cop
[QUOTE=Perfumly;44960714]Meh, I think this is debatable simply for the fact that they entered with excessive force right off the bat. You don't need a SWAT Team to bring down a family man who sells some dope. They didn't do any research on this guy at all, and instead of just making a clean arrest when he leaves the house they bust down his door at 3am.
If something like that happened to me at 3am (Or a lot of people that I know) I would probably be dead because I would be disoriented and my house just got broken into and it's a lot quicker for me to reach for a gun than it is for me to dial a phone and speak with a 911 operator.[/QUOTE]
Excessive force would be shooting everything that moves.
Again you're going "muh weed" when the drugs were unspecified and you seem to be ignoring the suspicion of weapons being present.
The reason they go in at 3am is so that you ARE disoriented, having just been quite rudely awoken, and the flashbangs are used to stun you if you're reaching for a weapon or have one ready, or are in the room, so that lethal force doesn't have to be used.
Swat teams don't play around, they go in and go in hard and fast, to limit the number of possible police and civilian casualites.
I don't see how many more times I have to explain it to get it through to you people why they do what they do, if you just aren't getting it.
Surveillence in a neighbourhood can be hard, especially in a close knit neighbourhood, where you run the risk of tipping off the offenders and potentially giving them warning and time to arm up. Same reason as to why you can't just roll up and arrest them, because not only is it obvious, but it also puts civilians at risk if you suspect that they may be armed.
You go in at the residence so that the people are contained and its a lot easier to take them down non lethally than it is in the open.
It is a tragic accident, but an accident nontheless. If the baby hadn't been in the room, this woldnt have been newsworthy whatsoever.
[QUOTE=RayvenQ;44960788]Excessive force would be shooting everything that moves.
Again you're going "muh weed" when the drugs were unspecified and you seem to be ignoring the suspicion of weapons being present.
The reason they go in at 3am is so that you ARE disoriented, having just been quite rudely awoken, and the flashbangs are used to stun you if you're reaching for a weapon or have one ready, or are in the room, so that lethal force doesn't have to be used.
Swat teams don't play around, they go in and go in hard and fast, to limit the number of possible police and civilian casualites.
I don't see how many more times I have to explain it to get it through to you people why they do what they do, if you just aren't getting it.
Surveillence in a neighbourhood can be hard, especially in a close knit neighbourhood, where you run the risk of tipping off the offenders and potentially giving them warning and time to arm up. Same reason as to why you can't just roll up and arrest them, because not only is it obvious, but it also puts civilians at risk if you suspect that they may be armed.[/QUOTE]
When I said dope I meant any recreational drug.
While your post sheds some light on the subject, I still disagree with assuming any fellow citizen who sells drugs and owns guns is going to be flat out willing to murder people.
Not to mention cases like this happen far too often, where the objective is to stop someone from selling drugs, and what ends up happening is they've potentially ruined someone's life who hasn't even got to live yet. My main argument is simply that the war on drugs is not worth it.
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