Marine Le Pen takes poll lead for next French presidential election
62 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45562452]Considering the FN was created by nazi sympathizers (the founder of the party resigned like 5 years ago and it's his daughter who's in charge now) I think the concern is legitimate.[/QUOTE]
Just because it was like that when it was created doesn't mean it hasn't changed since then.
[QUOTE=Nanamil;45561981]Today's France is not 1960 France, headshotter.[/QUOTE]
Explain?
Also I thought you said 1906 France for a moment :v:
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45562235]If you're not French then you probably don't understand how much of a joke supporting the FN makes you.[/QUOTE]
lol yes, it's totally better to support shit-tier PS that always caused a shitton of problems every single time they made it to presidency.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45562452]Considering the FN was created by nazi sympathizers (the founder of the party resigned like 5 years ago and it's his daughter who's in charge now) I think the concern is legitimate.[/QUOTE]
The FN was created by OAS sympathizers, not nazis (Algerian crisis, might be despicable to your terms, but still not nazis). Jean-Marie Le Pen himself was helping the resistance and was refused by a major rebel group (the FFI) because he wasn't 18 years old. On the other hand, famous French President and Socialist François Mitterand helped the nazis and Vichy. If you want a bigger picture, let's remind you the right-wing men were among the first to fight the invaders (while the left-wing voted full powers to Petain and the communists waited for Moscow).
Besides, his daughter now in charge, the FN is firing everyone who sympathize with the Nazi ideology or may have had a past with violent groups. So yeah, keep an eye on them if you wish but that's pointless and you'd have much more to look at on the various corruption and power-abuse from the PS and UMP (some cases being judged right now btw).
[editline]1st August 2014[/editline]
almost forgot the Far-Left wing (FDG, NPA) and their ties with antifascists, who get a hard-on attacking with bats anyone who is deemed too "righty" for them.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45562452]Considering the FN was created by nazi sympathizers (the founder of the party resigned like 5 years ago and it's his daughter who's in charge now) I think the concern is legitimate.[/QUOTE]
The Leftist party in Sweden used to contain the word Communist in it, but they changed that some time ago. Should we just assume they are all still communist and masturbates to Stalin?
Things change and modernize...certainly FN contains some scummy people but what political party doesn't? You know how people always criticize racists on the ground that the media just exaggerates and just shows the criminal immigrants? well its the same for political parties, they show the nazis on the TV because thats more interesting and scary than the average FN voter who is most likely just a regular, well behaved person
[quote] If you want a bigger picture, let's remind you the right-wing men were among the first to fight the invaders (while the left-wing voted full powers to Petain and the communists waited for Moscow).[/quote]
False. Communists were among the first to take up arms, just like in Greece, Spain, Yugoslavia. France in general has a very strong communist tradition, as much you might hate it.
[QUOTE=headshotter;45562014]
That's a matter of opinion, but I have a huge respect for someone who had the balls to stand up to the US and their post-WWII plans for Europe and managed to keep the country in a neutral stance. He was the one asking for an European Union built around nations (as opposed to a federal one), his fears and views on this specific subject are fascinating, I suggest you read his biography or listen to some of his speeches.
Ideology aside, the man himself was also the most honest of his times, he even paid the Elysée's bills, we're far from a Chirac or Sarkozy who used taxpayer money for their own ends. You may or may not share his views, but the man did everything he did for his country, without ever thinking about himself.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, Degaulle was the man. I mean for all we knew at the time he was "elected", he was just an army commander and this kind of scenario never ends well for the people. Usually. Instead we had a man who set a high standard for politicians of generations to come, which in turn was never met.
I'm not rooting for Marine Le Pen. I know she's not her father, but she's still a Le Pen, and I though I know how to forgive and forget, I will not vote to legitimate Jean Marie's legacy after all the terrible things he said.
I wish more people in our country knew that blank vote will be counted. Because at the moment it seems like the most viable alternative.
[QUOTE=Conscript;45562602]False. Communists were among the first to take up arms, just like in Greece, Spain, Yugoslavia. France in general has a very strong communist tradition, as much you might hate it.[/QUOTE]
I'm not debating weither or not some communists took arms, brave individuals did, just like in every political movement. Lots of communists left the party because the then called SFIC (despite being shocked) hasn't taken any strong position against the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact (that's what I meant by "communists waited for Moscow").
France doesn't have any "strong communist tradition" (the PCF used to be strong because of the rise of syndicates), it does have a socialist one though.
[editline]1st August 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=davidrb18;45562665]Yeah, Degaulle was the man. I mean for all we knew at the time he was "elected", he was just an army commander and this kind of scenario never ends well for the people. Usually. Instead we had a man who set a high standard for politicians of generations to come, which in turn was never met.
I'm not rooting for Marine Le Pen. I know she's not her father, but she's still a Le Pen, and I though I know how to forgive and forget, I will not vote to legitimate Jean Marie's legacy after all the terrible things he said.
I wish more people in our country knew that blank vote will be counted. Because at the moment it seems like the most viable alternative.[/QUOTE]
I can respect that.
Blank vote as it is serves the UMP and PS though. I'll consider voting blank when a majority of blank votes makes the voting null.
[QUOTE=toaster468;45562008]Why are you guys beating him up about his political opinions?[/QUOTE]
Democracy is only fine when my side wins, otherwise it's racist/bad/Nazi/cheating/redneck/hippie/commie/Islamist/Hitler/Stalin/*insert whatever*.
And people say that only American Politics suck :v:.
[QUOTE=acds;45562785]Democracy is only fine when my side wins, otherwise it's racist/bad/Nazi/cheating/redneck/hippie/commie/Islamist/Hitler/Stalin/*insert whatever*.[/QUOTE]
There has been quite a level-headed discussion going on in this thread though. And since politics is basically disagreement, it is quite refreshing to see what has been mostly an informative debate. I don't know shit about French politics, but this is very informative.
Damn... This might ruin my idea of moving to France if UKIP get in power next year. I don't really want to move somewhere else to get more of the same.
[QUOTE=WhollyRufus;45562009]Aren't you worried that the EU or US would employ some dirty trickery to stop her getting elected? She has promised to leave the EU and NATO, they may not like that.[/QUOTE]
good, France is a ghastly place. genuinely hated everything and everyone every time I've been there
[QUOTE=joe588;45563231]good, France is a ghastly place. genuinely hated everything and everyone every time I've been there[/QUOTE]
A true Englishman
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;45563197]Damn... This might ruin my idea of moving to France if UKIP get in power next year. I don't really want to move somewhere else to get more of the same.[/QUOTE]
This is taking it way too far. I love politics but I won't move from my country if communists suddenly gained access to power. You would probably not even notice any major difference in your day to day life.
[QUOTE=joe588;45563231]good, France is a ghastly place. genuinely hated everything and everyone every time I've been there[/QUOTE]
Where have you been in France if I might ask?
some horrible villages so dull I can't remember the names and Paris where I paid 5000 million francs for a tshirt but couldn't drink the tap water
[QUOTE=joe588;45563351]some horrible villages so dull I can't remember the names and [B]Paris[/B] where I paid 5000 million francs for a tshirt but couldn't drink the tap water[/QUOTE]
There's your problem.
Lyon or Bordeaux are much better places to visit imo. I always make sure my trips to Paris don't last more than a few days.
i guess france is about to experience interesting times.
[QUOTE=joe588;45563231]good, France is a ghastly place. genuinely hated everything and everyone every time I've been there[/QUOTE]
I went to Dunkirk and Calais a couple weeks ago, they seriously are the most depressing places I've ever been. They're both just square miles of squalid dilapidation intertwined with awful restaurants. I don't know about the rest of France though :v:
[QUOTE=The mouse;45564001]I went to Dunkirk and Calais a couple weeks ago, they seriously are the most depressing places I've ever been. They're both just square miles of squalid dilapidation intertwined with awful restaurants. I don't know about the rest of France though :v:[/QUOTE]
That's basically the worst part of France. It's known as being a pretty depressing place indeed. It's basically all docks and industrial areas.
It has bad weather as well, but I guess you're used to that :v:
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;45562990]And people say that only American Politics suck :v:.[/QUOTE]
For all the bad that a right wing president could do, I'd still rather live through five years of this bullshit and be done with it than having every single debate ever doomed to turn into a two-sided shitfest. If a non-mainstream party that isn't far-right were going to be elected, no one outside of France would give a shit.
If the shitfest our country is currently undergoing is the price we have to pay for not adopting anglosaxon bipartism then I'm okay with it.
[QUOTE=The mouse;45564001]I went to Dunkirk and Calais a couple weeks ago, they seriously are the most depressing places I've ever been. They're both just square miles of squalid dilapidation intertwined with awful restaurants. I don't know about the rest of France though :v:[/QUOTE]
They're horrible places indeed, as mentionned by Axel, aside from docks and industrial areas you won't find much. Definitly check out Bordeaux or Lyon if you're willing to give us another chance.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-0LhREx7lo[/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5VgJzUNdvU[/media]
Anything looks good on a timelapse.
Also how the city looks has nothing to do with how the people are like. There are cunts all over the place in every part of France, and xenophobia is everywhere.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45564317]Anything looks good on a timelapse.
Also how the city looks has nothing to do with how the people are like. There are cunts all over the place in every part of France, and xenophobia is everywhere.[/QUOTE]
Everything looks good on a timelapse but you can't make a proper timelapse everywhere.
I lived in both Lyon and Bordeaux, I can guarantee they're great places to visit or live in. Just street view the places if you're having doubts :
[url=https://www.google.fr/maps/place/Lyon/@45.7579555,4.8351209,14316m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x47f4ea516ae88797:0x408ab2ae4bb21f0]Lyon[/url]
[url=https://www.google.fr/maps/place/Bordeaux/@44.8637279,-0.586141,14544m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0xd5527e8f751ca81:0x796386037b397a89]Bordeaux[/url]
Cunts are everywhere but from my experience you tend to meet less of them in Bordeaux as you would in Paris. Besides I don't think tourists' biggest problem will be xenophobia.
you seem a nice frenchie but seriously I only met one nice person in France. Even speaking enough French to hold a very basic conversation they were arseholes!!
[QUOTE=headshotter;45563278]This is taking it way too far. I love politics but I won't move from my country if communists suddenly gained access to power. You would probably not even notice any major difference in your day to day life.[/QUOTE]
You don't understand. It's not about my political disagreements with UKIP- although I despise them, I wouldn't move out of the country if I just thought they were going to do things I disagreed with. But the party is basically run by a bunch of ex-businessmen and corporate shills. The UK is in a dump, and it's very slowly scraping out of recession through the sheer will of the people and complete luck. The Conservatives and Liberal Democrats (a party with which, on paper, I agree) are doing next-to-nothing to fix it, and even the things they are doing have much heavier costs than they need. A UKIP majority would most likely lead to big tax cuts for corporations and higher taxes for those in less advantaged positions; their old manifesto, for instance, had a totally flat income tax.
I am scared of what will happen should UKIP get in power because they've shown genuine interest in legitimately oppressive ideals. Again, their 2010 manifesto (disowned by the party, but hardly an ancient document) proposed banning 'An Inconvenient Truth' for no particular reason other than that it talks about climate change. As somebody who considers themselves part of the LGBT spectrum (not currently comfortable saying where), I'm worried that the things I'm looking for may no longer be possible or easy. The discussion of privatising our NHS is actually quite disturbing.
It's not just because I disagree with the party- it's because I actually fear that my life would significantly degrade should I stay in England if it happened, and I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable living there any more. I'm not going to say that the Front National is the exact same thing (although I know they're similar), but UKIP is genuinely (and disproportionately) full of terrifying people who should never be in any position of power, and I feel like they'd have a good chance of screwing up the country almost beyond repair if they came into power in their current state.
[QUOTE=headshotter;45564255]They're horrible places indeed, as mentionned by Axel, aside from docks and industrial areas you won't find much. Definitly check out Bordeaux or Lyon if you're willing to give us another chance.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-0LhREx7lo[/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5VgJzUNdvU[/media][/QUOTE]
Toulouse is pretty cool too, but I guess as someone who lived in Bordeaux you might be a bit biased against them :v:
[editline]1st August 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=joe588;45564421]you seem a nice frenchie but seriously I only met one nice person in France. Even speaking enough French to hold a very basic conversation they were arseholes!![/QUOTE]
I never understood that claim. I've met my share of assholes in my life but they're far from being the majority. Perhaps we have different standards, I don't know.
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;45564933]You don't understand. It's not about my political disagreements with UKIP- although I despise them, I wouldn't move out of the country if I just thought they were going to do things I disagreed with. But the party is basically run by a bunch of ex-businessmen and corporate shills. The UK is in a dump, and it's very slowly scraping out of recession through the sheer will of the people and complete luck. The Conservatives and Liberal Democrats (a party with which, on paper, I agree) are doing next-to-nothing to fix it, and even the things they are doing have much heavier costs than they need. A UKIP majority would most likely lead to big tax cuts for corporations and higher taxes for those in less advantaged positions; their old manifesto, for instance, had a totally flat income tax.
I am scared of what will happen should UKIP get in power because they've shown genuine interest in legitimately oppressive ideals. Again, their 2010 manifesto (disowned by the party, but hardly an ancient document) proposed banning 'An Inconvenient Truth' for no particular reason other than that it talks about climate change. As somebody who considers themselves part of the LGBT spectrum (not currently comfortable saying where), I'm worried that the things I'm looking for may no longer be possible or easy. The discussion of privatising our NHS is actually quite disturbing.
It's not just because I disagree with the party- it's because I actually fear that my life would significantly degrade should I stay in England if it happened, and I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable living there any more. I'm not going to say that the Front National is the exact same thing (although I know they're similar), but UKIP is genuinely (and disproportionately) full of terrifying people who should never be in any position of power, and I feel like they'd have a good chance of screwing up the country almost beyond repair if they came into power in their current state.[/QUOTE]
As someone who is currently studying in the UK (going on to my fourth year) I just don't like waking up and finding a bunch of UKIP flyers on my doorstep. Sure I joke about it with my friends and I know I'm not really in any danger since I'm supposed to be the 'good' kind of immigrant (i.e. white skin colour, a name that is not overtly foreign and with enough money, who possibly will leave after a while {even though I don't really think I will if I can find a job}), but at the same time I feel quite pissed off because I know I'm such a minority to feel so safe and secure. The whole ignorant anti-EU and anti-foreigner rhetoric is doing nothing but adding fuel to the fire and giving people with genuinely extremist ideas some sort of justification.
It just bugs the hell out of me and I know I'm in no position to be able to do anything about it through voting.
As an American, I'm extremely disturbed and confused by this new racist nationalism sprouting up throughout Europe.
[QUOTE=Fetret;45565598]As someone who is currently studying in the UK (going on to my fourth year) I just don't like waking up and finding a bunch of UKIP flyers on my doorstep. Sure I joke about it with my friends and I know I'm not really in any danger since I'm supposed to be the 'good' kind of immigrant (i.e. white skin colour, a name that is not overtly foreign and with enough money, who possibly will leave after a while {even though I don't really think I will if I can find a job}), but at the same time I feel quite pissed off because I know I'm such a minority to feel so safe and secure. The whole ignorant anti-EU and anti-foreigner rhetoric is doing nothing but adding fuel to the fire and giving people with genuinely extremist ideas some sort of justification.
It just bugs the hell out of me and I know I'm in no position to be able to do anything about it through voting.[/QUOTE]
You're coming with the intention of trying to get a job- the vast majority of people in the UK will admire you for that. Even most anti-immigration people tend to, by some bizarre luck, be okay with white people coming over. It's almost like they don't [I]actually[/I] have an issue with immigration, just brown people.
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