Law Graduate found Guilty of Falsely Accusing Former Boyfriend of Rape: Feminist Organization claims
150 replies, posted
can you please stop making so many threads about rape and feminists when you've said yourself you're just in it to argue for 10+ pages ranger thanks
as sad as this case is it has nothing to do with anything other than the people involved. don't try to turn it into "feminists are going to do this" or "women are going to do that". stupid people will do stupid things and even more stupid people will defend them.
[QUOTE=gerbe1;45056692]I bet most of them didn't know that kissing someone cute you met at a party who they thought was batting their eyes at them without asking can easily be sexual assault. Especially if the person turns out to be off their face drunk and the kisser didn't realise. Yet it's something they put in movies all the time (usually they aren't drunk in the movies, but they really have no way of knowing).[/QUOTE]
imagine suing someone for kissing you while you're drunk
i love the backwards ass logic of defending this person
like do the members of WAR have any idea how damaging supporting this is to their own cause
the demonstration of how easily it is for a woman to falsely accuse rape isn't enough to deter these people's support for this woman apparently
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;45056233] who has an eight-month-old child[/quote]
[quote]She also claimed Fensome had punched her in the ribs when she was pregnant, causing her to lose the baby.[/quote]
so is the baby pickled in a jar or what's going on
[QUOTE=Paige;45056825][B]can you please stop making so many threads about rape and feminists when you've said yourself you're just in it to argue for 10+ pages ranger thanks[/B]
as sad as this case is it has nothing to do with anything other than the people involved. don't try to turn it into "feminists are going to do this" or "women are going to do that". stupid people will do stupid things and even more stupid people will defend them.[/QUOTE]
you dont have to come into the thread
[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;45056794]Can you link that particular study?
Also, wording is a huge thing in studies and if you fail to word it correctly then the entire community pretty much dismisses it because of how wording effects the way we think about it. I'd bet money that if you asked that same group of kids using the word 'rape' those numbers would be completely different.
[editline]10th June 2014[/editline]
When we're talking about a particular action, you can't skirt around what it actually is or you won't be getting real results.
Plus a dozen other factors which [i]you cannot ignore[/i], especially considering that particular group of kids in that age group. A true comprehensive study of culture and people's thoughts can't be handled with a few asinine questions like that, it runs much deeper and isn't so black and white.[/QUOTE]
[url]https://www.ncjrs.gov/app/abstractdb/AbstractDBDetails.aspx?id=132831[/url] there is a link to the study but I can't find a publicly available online copy. I did find a picture that has the page with the question they asked on a hard copy:
[QUOTE][IMG_thumb]http://www.thescoopng.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/When-is-rape-okay.jpg[/IMG_thumb][/QUOTE]
And I certainly don't think that if you did a comprehensive study across generations with hundreds of questions you'd get anything other than worse results, since the study would cover cases that are a lot more ambiguous than this.
To pull from Zizek, he identifies evil people as not people who operate outside of the societal norms, but rather people who identify too strongly with the societal norms and don't acquire the distance and insecurity necessary to be a normal functioning person.
For example violent videogames and movies are enjoyed by people who understand that it is not realistic and not acceptable real-life behavior. They might identify with the violence in some way, but they have an acceptable distance which allows them to separate their emotions from the rational Real; ie just because there's a bad guy in the movie who I don't want alive via the main good guy who serves as the rational stand-in doesn't mean I want to kill anyone who is the real-life equivalent to the bad guy.
Same exact thing with rape.
In our culture we have these certain funny or vulgar things which are quite harmless and are just part of the normal romantic or dating "world". You know, you get drunk and get a little loose, you maybe have sex with someone as just a one-off thing and you have conversation in a way that is sexually aggressive. Normally people can approach that kind of stuff with a distant attitude as in yes she's being sexually forward or he's being sexually forward but it's just a thing of the moment and that's not really what they feel and we're just engaging in a kind of performance or "game".
A rapist is in the same situation, but instead of having the required distant attitude to understand that it is fictional and a woman who dresses in a sexually provocative way isn't asking to be sexualised or assaulted, the rapist identifies too strongly with the situation and interprets the sexually aggressive conversation and the drug usage for what it appears completely on the surface through his cultural lens, i.e. the rapist believes that the performance, whether it's in a club or random women on the street is Real. The rapist might even identify with this in a way where he would project it onto random women or men who aren't participating in the performance but are useful stand-in's for the fantasy.
To really solve the problem of rape in the United States, you have to either eliminate these vulgar or funny performances (what some might call rape culture), but I also think that people, especially teenagers who are dealing with developing emotions unfamiliar to them, need to be taught to have the proper distance. Any person, even if they sexually arouse you, even if know they are doing it, are participating in a performance that isn't supposed to lead to sex. It's a fantasmatic performance of expression, not an incitement for sexual contact.
[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;45056794]Can you link that particular study?
Also, wording is a huge thing in studies and if you fail to word it correctly then the entire community pretty much dismisses it because of how wording effects the way we think about it. I'd bet money that if you asked that same group of kids using the word 'rape' those numbers would be completely different.
[editline]10th June 2014[/editline]
When we're talking about a particular action, you can't skirt around what it actually is or you won't be getting real results.
Plus a dozen other factors which [i]you cannot ignore[/i], especially considering that particular group of kids in that age group. A true comprehensive study of culture and people's thoughts can't be handled with a few asinine questions like that, it runs much deeper and isn't so black and white.[/QUOTE]
But the entire point is that not everyone knows exactly what rape really is. Of course the answers would be different if you put the word rape in there. Most everyone thinks rape is wrong, but their definition of rape is more akin to emerging from a dark alley and abducting some random woman and forcing them to have sex.
There are still people who think that they are entitled to sex and can force someone into it just because they spent money on the other person, or that it's okay to try to booze someone up to guarantee sex. What we should be doing is teaching people that these are forms of rape, and they are not okay in the slightest.
[QUOTE=WillerinV1.02;45056868]you dont have to come into the thread[/QUOTE]
nope, i don't. but that doesn't change the fact that ranger's making bait threads that serve no purpose but a banme more or less.
[QUOTE=Bazsil;45056649]
this tumblr "teach men not to rape" shit is fucking retarded, the vast majority of society, men included, view rapists as scumbags and freaks[/QUOTE]
The problem of that is linguistics. We view the word rape with the appropriate revulsion but each individual person's definition of rape can vary and will vary depending on what they themselves consider rape.
A woman working in the pornography industry will have a very different definition from a man in a traditional patriarchal society.
[QUOTE=niel12_5D;45056893]To pull from Zizek, he identifies evil people as not people who operate outside of the societal norms, but rather people who identify too strongly with the societal norms and don't acquire the distance and insecurity necessary to be a normal functioning person.
For example violent videogames and movies are enjoyed by people who understand that it is not realistic and not acceptable real-life behavior. They might identify with the violence in some way, but they have an acceptable distance which allows them to separate their emotions from the rational Real; ie just because there's a bad guy in the movie who I don't want alive via the main good guy who serves as the rational stand-in doesn't mean I want to kill anyone who is the real-life equivalent to the bad guy.
Same exact thing with rape.
In our culture we have these certain funny or vulgar things which are quite harmless and are just part of the normal romantic or dating "world". You know, you get drunk and get a little loose, you maybe have sex with someone as just a one-off thing and you have conversation in a way that is sexually aggressive. Normally people can approach that kind of stuff with a distant attitude as in yes she's being sexually forward or he's being sexually forward but it's just a thing of the moment and that's not really what they feel and we're just engaging in a kind of performance or "game".
A rapist is in the same situation, but instead of having the required distant attitude to understand that it is fictional and a woman who dresses in a sexually provocative way isn't asking to be sexualised or assaulted, the rapist identifies too strongly with the situation and interprets the sexually aggressive conversation and the drug usage for what it appears completely on the surface through his cultural lens, i.e. the rapist believes that the performance, whether it's in a club or random women on the street is Real. The rapist might even identify with this in a way where he would project it onto random women or men who aren't participating in the performance but are useful stand-in's for the fantasy.
To really solve the problem of rape in the United States, you have to either eliminate these vulgar or funny performances (what some might call rape culture), but I also think that people, especially teenagers who are dealing with developing emotions unfamiliar to them, need to be taught to have the proper distance. Any person, even if they sexually arouse you, even if know they are doing it, are participating in a performance that isn't supposed to lead to sex. It's a fantasmatic performance of expression, not an incitement for sexual contact.[/QUOTE]
This is probably one of the most genuinely interesting posts made in months.
Step up your game, FP.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;45056989]This is probably one of the most genuinely interesting posts made in months.
Step up your game, FP.[/QUOTE]
Just to add to what I said; I'd like to pull an example from Columbine's massacre.
A lot of the hysterical conservatives were decrying games like Doom and music like KMFDM because they said, like, it's violent and children don't understand the difference between it and real-life.
When you look at the writings of the two people who shot up the school you'll find that they were very much aware that they were games and not real, but they still identified with the violent themes in the game and the music because just like the bullying they were subject to, the fact that it wasn't real meant they could identify with it and project the themes into their existence which meant that the abstractions of Doom seemed as real to them as the abstractions of our everyday morality like don't kill people, don't harm people, be a good America etc.
I'd claim that rapists operate in the same way where they take the themes in everyday society i.e. fantasy abstractions and I'll take one that is painful to my own heart, the frat parties.
A frat party isn't supposed to result in rape and drunken orgies because the fantasy about the frat party is one where barriers are dropped down and you can safely drink and be sexually active and find sexually attractive people to do it with. You're supposed to take that fantasy and acquire a kind of distance to it like "yes I'm going to this frat party and yes I'm supposed to indulge myself in this catharsis but I'm gonna be rational because I have school and I don't want to hurt myself and fuck the party up for everyone else and etc".
However what happens when you take that fantasy and identify with it where you lose your insecurity and now you have to fulfill the fantasy or, you know, else the people at the frat think you're a faggot or you're a square or you won't get accepted as a junior member. Now you lose your distance and the fantasy of the frat party becomes reality.
When a woman gets raped at a frat party the people never think they are raping her at all, rather they think that this is what is expected of them, this is the fantasy I am supposed to enact, this is the reason why these women are here.
The woman in an act of rape functions in the same way a woman depicted in a pornographic magazine functions. She exists as a prop to enact a fantasy, a fantasy which has gotten out of control and people have lost their sense of Self and identity. The important difference is that the woman in the pornographic magazine is a prop, but the woman in an act of rape is not.
[QUOTE=gerbe1;45056878][url]https://www.ncjrs.gov/app/abstractdb/AbstractDBDetails.aspx?id=132831[/url] there is a link to the study but I can't find a publicly available online copy. I did find a picture that has the page with the question they asked on a hard copy:
And I certainly don't think that if you did a comprehensive study across generations with hundreds of questions you'd get anything other than worse results, since the study would cover cases that are a lot more ambiguous than this.[/QUOTE]
These are highschoolers, a bunch probably lie about their answers for shits and giggles.
[QUOTE=niel12_5D;45057050]Just to add to what I said; I'd like to pull an example from Columbine's massacre.
A lot of the hysterical conservatives were decrying games like Doom and music like KMFDM because they said, like, it's violent and children don't understand the difference between it and real-life.
When you look at the writings of the two people who shot up the school you'll find that they were very much aware that they were games and not real, but they still identified with the violent themes in the game and the music because just like the bullying they were subject to, the fact that it wasn't real meant they could identify with it and project the themes into their existence which meant that the abstractions of Doom seemed as real to them as the abstractions of our everyday morality like don't kill people, don't harm people, be a good America etc.
I'd claim that rapists operate in the same way where they take the themes in everyday society i.e. fantasy abstractions and I'll take one that is painful to my own heart, the frat parties.
A frat party isn't supposed to result in rape and drunken orgies because the fantasy about the frat party is one where barriers are dropped down and you can safely drink and be sexually active and find sexually attractive people to do it with. You're supposed to take that fantasy and acquire a kind of distance to it like "yes I'm going to this frat party and yes I'm supposed to indulge myself in this catharsis but I'm gonna be rational because I have school and I don't want to hurt myself and fuck the party up for everyone else and etc".
However what happens when you take that fantasy and identify with it where you lose your insecurity and now you have to fulfill the fantasy or, you know, else the people at the frat think you're a faggot or you're a square or you won't get accepted as a junior member. Now you lose your distance and the fantasy of the frat party becomes reality.
When a woman gets raped at a frat party the people never think they are raping her at all, rather they think that this is what is expected of them, this is the fantasy I am supposed to enact, this is the reason why these women are here.
The woman in an act of rape functions in the same way a woman depicted in a pornographic magazine functions. She exists as a prop to enact a fantasy, a fantasy which has gotten out of control and people have lost their sense of Self and identity. The important difference is that the woman in the pornographic magazine is a prop, but the woman in an act of rape is not.[/QUOTE]
columbine dudes were not bullied excessively or anything like that
This is a real fear of mine man. Imagine if someone hates you so much they actually go to the police and tell them you raped them. How can you prove that you didn't? Hell, what if I happened to look like someone who did rape a person, how can I prove that I wasn't him. I'd have to record my entire day or some shit.
And then on the other side, what if I did rape someone in the middle of nowhere, no cameras and no witnesses and covered in all latex. How could the victim ever prove that I did it?
[QUOTE=MisterSjeiks;45058211]This is a real fear of mine man. Imagine if someone hates you so much they actually go to the police and tell them you raped them. How can you prove that you didn't? Hell, what if I happened to look like someone who did rape a person, how can I prove that I wasn't him. I'd have to record my entire day or some shit.
And then on the other side, what if I did rape someone in the middle of nowhere, no cameras and no witnesses and covered in all latex. How could the victim ever prove that I did it?[/QUOTE]
Better always wear google glasses. Russians are always worried about insurance fraud, so they simply have a dash cam installed in their cars.
[QUOTE=innerfire34;45057793]columbine dudes were not bullied excessively or anything like that[/QUOTE]
why would you even rate this dumb instead of looking it up?
[editline]10th June 2014[/editline]
like, is there some personal connection you've made with the columbine kids that wouldn't be legitimate if they weren't the 'victims' of bullying?
[QUOTE=MisterSjeiks;45058211]This is a real fear of mine man. Imagine if someone hates you so much they actually go to the police and tell them you raped them. How can you prove that you didn't? Hell, what if I happened to look like someone who did rape a person, how can I prove that I wasn't him. I'd have to record my entire day or some shit.[/QUOTE]
Install a black box in your pants
I don't see what the feminist group is talking about.
This just means the police actually did investigate the thing and didn't just go one way or the other and call it a day.
[QUOTE=Oizen;45056391]What do you do to prevent rape then? Im genuinely curious what people think should be done to prevent it.
The only thing that comes into my mind, is teach women how to defend themselves from it.[/QUOTE]
Just compare occiental to oriental societies. Not too long ago, the rape numbers would probably be fairly similar (though in a lot of cases some of it wasn't considered rape) but essentially from a cultural change you started moving to a situation where people who would have formerly been perpetrators and wouldn't consider it such a serious crime, started considering the whole thing am uch bigger crime as well.
Another important bit is that society starting going after the perpetrators a lot more and did not stygmatise victims as much as it did.
Overall a huge cultural shift started happening and is still going on, at least in the western world.
[QUOTE=MisterSjeiks;45058211]This is a real fear of mine man. Imagine if someone hates you so much they actually go to the police and tell them you raped them. How can you prove that you didn't? Hell, what if I happened to look like someone who did rape a person, how can I prove that I wasn't him. I'd have to record my entire day or some shit.
And then on the other side, what if I did rape someone in the middle of nowhere, no cameras and no witnesses and covered in all latex. How could the victim ever prove that I did it?[/QUOTE]
Generally speaking, it's kinda hard to prove that a rape happened when they can't actually find any physical evidence. It's harder to disprove when you have a couple though of course on these grounds.
The main problem though isn't with the government. It's with private institutions who only take the allegation into account. A school can suspend you, an employer can fire you, a private sex offender list can list you, even though the allegation was dismissed in the end. Public opinion can also be pretty nasty.
As to your full latex cover - there's still quite a lot of clues about rape actually. There are certain bruisings which are fairly typical for rapes. On top of that there might be other signs of struggle on the woman, or even you.
[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;45058441]I don't see what the feminist group is talking about.
This just means the police actually did investigate the thing and didn't just go one way or the other and call it a day.[/QUOTE]
She was a figurehead for the group and an "inspiration" to rape victims that rape wasn't the end
Turns out she was making a completely false rape claim, which now puts the group under fire for funding and supporting women who make false rape claims. They inadvertently gave MRAs "proof" that false rape claims happen and that feminists don't care.
[QUOTE=Oizen;45056391]What do you do to prevent rape then? Im genuinely curious what people think should be done to prevent it.
The only thing that comes into my mind, is teach women how to defend themselves from it.[/QUOTE]
oh my god. i cannot believe i just saw someone post this seriously. this is literally horrifying.
[QUOTE=postmanX3;45058954]oh my god. i cannot believe i just saw someone post this seriously. this is literally horrifying.[/QUOTE]
You could just say horrifying, the literally was unnecessary.
[quote] "completely disproportionate", adding: "Time and again we see police resources diverted from rape and put into prosecuting women instead."[/quote]
Sooo let's not bother with evidence, fuck equal proceedings, and lets ignore the fact that men are prosecuted and found guilty or rape in court [B]WAY[/B] more often than women. This is some mightly low quality backpedaling she's doing here.
[QUOTE=wraithcat;45058794]There are certain bruisings which are fairly typical for rapes. On top of that there might be other signs of struggle on the woman, or even you.[/QUOTE]
I guess engaging in BDSM really is all about trust.
[QUOTE=RustledJimmys;45058967]You could just say horrifying, the literally was unnecessary.[/QUOTE]
ok thanks? it's true either way.
[QUOTE=postmanX3;45058954]oh my god. i cannot believe i just saw someone post this seriously. this is literally horrifying.[/QUOTE]
Care to elaborate? Self-defense is a good thing.
[QUOTE=innerfire34;45058257]why would you even rate this dumb instead of looking it up?
[editline]10th June 2014[/editline]
like, is there some personal connection you've made with the columbine kids that wouldn't be legitimate if they weren't the 'victims' of bullying?[/QUOTE]
Snipping, because I genuinely thought you were being sarcastic there. Sorry.
[QUOTE=Katska;45059112]Well, it's not what you think, really. It's just that the post did mention the fact that they were bullied, and the fact that you missed that kind of makes it seem like you didn't read it.
It's just times like these I kinda wish we had Bad Reading back.[/QUOTE]
and i did in fact say in response to that false information that no, they were not
times like this i wish people would read a fucking book
like what the fuck are you even saying, how would i have known to mention that if i didn't read that exact sentence you fucking dolt?
[QUOTE=itisjuly;45059068]Care to elaborate? Self-defense is a good thing.[/QUOTE]
the implication is that women are somehow responsible for rape since apparently the only way to prevent it is to 'teach women to defend themselves.' have u ever considered maybe teaching men... to not rape? like is that not the most obvious solution?
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