UK doctors call to ban the purchase of cigarettes to anyone born after 2000 - until smoking is compl
139 replies, posted
I don't smoke anymore but everyone who says my smoking affected others is dumb.
I just don't see how smoking alone on my back porch affected anyone but me...
and don't get me wrong, it affected me badly which is why I quit, but it literally had no impact on anyone else in my life
[editline]26th March 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;44365263]No, being poor is the greatest health problem of our time. Bad food is cheaper, so poor people get fat. Holy shit if you taxed that, shit would hit the fan.
Smoking is completely optional and is not in any way needed.[/QUOTE]
dude buy a fucking crock pot and after that initial purchase you'll be making dank roasts and stews for waaaaaay less than any garbage food you can get at fast food places.
buy a bag of potatoes, some carrots, fucking vegetables and some cheap ass meat from grocery outlet and chop it up idgaf. it's 1,000,000% cheaper and healthier than mcdonalds
[QUOTE=FlakAttack;44362778]
Wow it's almost like marijuana has very legitimate medical applications while tobacco is useless and harms everyone around the smoker a great deal.[/QUOTE]
Duke University actually compiled a study that showed that smoking tobacco in small amounts can help people with learning and focus disabilities. It also is a natural anti-depressant, can help people which suffer from epilepsy in the frontal lobe, aids people with certain mental disorders by easing their nerves.
Saying a substance that's highly addictive has no benefits what-so-ever would be to deny why the substance is addictive in the first place.
[QUOTE=CyberHawk;44365838]Bad food being cheaper is just a myth.
[img]http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/09/24/opinion/sunday/20110925_BITTMAN_MARSHgph/20110925_BITTMAN_MARSHgph-popup.jpg[/img]
[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/25/opinion/sunday/is-junk-food-really-cheaper.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&ref=opinion[/url][/QUOTE]
i think this is a silly comparison because most people who eat mcdonalds most of the time are doing it because they don't want to cook, so what is the use in comparing a grocery shop to a mcdonalds?
[editline]27th March 2014[/editline]
i don't think any reasonable person would justify eating mcdonanlds every day because "it's cheaper than buying groceries"
[editline]27th March 2014[/editline]
but you are correct that the "bad food is cheaper" thing is bullshit
the reason poor people might be more likely to be fat (this is debated) is because of the general instant gratification culture that exists in poor communities. poor people like to spend their money on instant joys, short-term goals, and quick fixes. it's no wonder that most poor people can't be bothered to cook properly. it also ties into free time - if you're a rich house wife or you're able to finish work at 3 to go get the kids n stuff then of course you're going to cook. if you work 9-6 every day, as poorer people will need to, then obviously wanting to cook is going to be less likely
[QUOTE=CyberHawk;44365838]Bad food being cheaper is just a myth.
[img]http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/09/24/opinion/sunday/20110925_BITTMAN_MARSHgph/20110925_BITTMAN_MARSHgph-popup.jpg[/img]
[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/25/opinion/sunday/is-junk-food-really-cheaper.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&ref=opinion[/url]
The link between obesity and income level is also questionable.
[img]http://www.pewresearch.org/files/2013/11/FT_13.11.12_Obesity_640px.png[/img]
[url]http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/11/13/obesity-and-poverty-dont-always-go-together/[/url][/QUOTE]
When people say bad food is cheaper they don't mean McDonalds. They mean things like a pack of 30 chicken nuggets for less than £1 or cheap frozen microwave meals. Cheap healthy food is definitely available but you can also buy packets of instant noodles for 30p per meal.
[QUOTE=squids_eye;44366492]When people say bad food is cheaper they don't mean McDonalds. They mean things like a pack of 30 chicken nuggets for less than £1 or cheap frozen microwave meals. Cheap healthy food is definitely available but you can also buy packets of instant noodles for 30p per meal.[/QUOTE]
cheap frozen microwave meals? i dont know if this exists when you actually stock up the costs
a ready-meal sausage and mash would be £1-2 in tesco. but you could buy a bag of potatoes for like 50p and there are some (kinda worryingly) cheap sausages too - and that would provide you with sausage and mash for a week or for friends or whatever
yeh the cheap sausages aren't going to be very healthy but they'll certainly be better than the pumped up sugar and salt contents of the ready meal
[QUOTE=Roll_Program;44362253]Yep.
Electronic cigarettes should still be banned since you can still smell them and the vapor they give off isn't 100% nicotine free.[/QUOTE]
You'd probably get more nicotine from eating some tomatoes than the second-hand vapor from an ecig.
I used to support stuff like this
When I was an 8 year old Democrat who wanted to force his ideology on everyone
While I want to see it happen, we will just see an incredible increase in illegal sales which will fund organized crime.
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;44366582]cheap frozen microwave meals? i dont know if this exists when you actually stock up the costs
a ready-meal sausage and mash would be £1-2 in tesco. but you could buy a bag of potatoes for like 50p and there are some (kinda worryingly) cheap sausages too - and that would provide you with sausage and mash for a week or for friends or whatever
yeh the cheap sausages aren't going to be very healthy but they'll certainly be better than the pumped up sugar and salt contents of the ready meal[/QUOTE]
That cheap sausage is probably the definition of bad food.
Here is the nutritional info on just some generic sausages.
[url]http://caloriecount.about.com/calories-pork-sausage-bulk-links-patties-i7901[/url]
High in sodium, cholesterol and saturated fat, and a serving size of only 1. I'd wager that most people would have more than one sausage. Certain brands like jimmy dean are even worse.
When people say bad food is cheap, they mean things like cheap sausages, or chips, or crappy breads, etc. These types of foods are either full of sugar,sodium,fat, or just plain empty calories because it is ridiculously cheap to make them. To compound this they are often sold in ways to make people eat more than they should, in order to get people to buy the food more often.
[QUOTE=CyberHawk;44365838]Bad food being cheaper is just a myth.
[img]http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/09/24/opinion/sunday/20110925_BITTMAN_MARSHgph/20110925_BITTMAN_MARSHgph-popup.jpg[/img]
[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/25/opinion/sunday/is-junk-food-really-cheaper.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&ref=opinion[/url]
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, if you prepare your food yourself from ingredients, it's much cheaper even here, where food is expensive as shit.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;44366549]Absolutely fantastic information, alcohol =/= smoking though.[/QUOTE]
its a completely fair comparison
both are used recreationally and both are harmful for the user, giving no actual life benefit
i suggest that people stop demonizing smokers and actually stand up for their rights, rather than letting the government manage every aspect of their lives
I have serious issues with people smoking around me, But as much as i wish the cancersticks would vanish from existence all banning it would do is help line the pockets of the wrong kind of people.
I'm all for stronger penalty's of exposing people to second hand smoke involuntarily though.
[QUOTE=matt.ant;44361857]I've seen a lot of places, including doctors surgeries, with this sign:
[img]http://www.mydoorsign.com/img/lg/K/No-Smoking-Electronic-Cigarettes-Sign-K-9873.gif[/img][/QUOTE]
Just how anal do you have to be to rate this winner? Are you people against vaping around your children too? It's rude if someone blows a cloud in your face, but it ain't going to harm you at all. You should be giving people the incentive to vape, not treat them like smokers. May as well ban belching with your mouth open too. Nicotine can be bad for the user but it ain't the real issue.
I wonder how feasible it would be to ban the sales of real cigarettes and limit sales to vaporizers/e-cigs. And how accepting smokers would be of having to switch. I'm fine with people ingesting whatever recreational poison they like, but smoking isn't something that affects only the smoker.
If it actually was illegal I guess people wouldn't be smoking in the open, but it seems it would be a better solution to let people smoke and just further regulate smoking in certain public locations.
[editline]27th March 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Pr0fane;44364295]Ban cars powered by combustion engines. Hybrids don't emited fumes.
[/QUOTE]
They do in some metropolitan areas. Which is entirely the right thing to do in my opinion provided the right alternative infrastructure is present.
[QUOTE=CyberHawk;44365838]Bad food being cheaper is just a myth.
[img]http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/09/24/opinion/sunday/20110925_BITTMAN_MARSHgph/20110925_BITTMAN_MARSHgph-popup.jpg[/img]
[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/25/opinion/sunday/is-junk-food-really-cheaper.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&ref=opinion[/url]
The link between obesity and income level is also questionable.
[img]http://www.pewresearch.org/files/2013/11/FT_13.11.12_Obesity_640px.png[/img]
[url]http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/11/13/obesity-and-poverty-dont-always-go-together/[/url][/QUOTE]
It isn't just money, it is preparation time. A single parent working a full-time job at minimum wage is likely to not have enough time to go out, buy healthy food, prepare it, and feed it to their child.
[QUOTE=CyberHawk;44365838]Bad food being cheaper is just a myth.[/QUOTE]
this image is a load of horseshit and doesnt justify you calling it a myth
also are you prepared to eat rice and beans the rest of your life
[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;44369477]this image is a load of horseshit and doesnt justify you calling it a myth
also are you prepared to eat rice and beans the rest of your life[/QUOTE]
buying healthy food is cheaper, in the UK at least
the people who say it isn't either live with their parents or don't want to take responsibility for their own health
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;44369566]Its like you people have never heard of the value menu.
McDonalds does not cost 27 dollars to feed 4.
You can get 25 burgers with that and free water from the dollar menu.
(I eat it almost everyday as a poor college kid, because ramen noodles arent enough)
Not to mention eating bad food doesnt mean you get obese, I live on bad food and i'm 120lbs.[/QUOTE]
£1.60 - Frozen Chips (4 servings)
£1.00 - 2 cans of peas (4 servings)
£2.00 - Frozen Chicken Breast (4 servings)
Bought these yesterday, works out at £1.15 per meal, and gives me 4 meals. Much more filling, better tasting, and more nutritional than a McDonalds burger.
I can also make different meals such as curry, fajitas etc for a similar price.
[editline]27th March 2014[/editline]
Here's another one to show you:
£2.00 - Frozen Chicken Breasts (4 servings)
£2.00 - 2 Jars of Curry Sauce (4 servings)
£2.00 - Bag of Rice (4+ servings)
Makes 4 curries, at £1.50 each.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;44369566]Its like you people have never heard of the value menu.
McDonalds does not cost 27 dollars to feed 4.
You can get 25 burgers with that and free water from the dollar menu.
(I eat it almost everyday as a poor college kid, because ramen noodles arent enough)
Not to mention eating bad food doesnt mean you get obese, I live on bad food and i'm 120lbs.[/QUOTE]
It's like you've never heard of chicken and rice before. Throw in some canned vegetables every once in a while, maybe buy some seasoning occasionally. Food can be dirt cheap if you bother to look for decent prices in a decent sized market.
Another (new post because edit isn't working):
£1.80 - 3 Bell Peppers (4+ servings)
£2.00 - Frozen Chicken Breasts (4 servings)
£1.20 - 8 Large Tortillas (4 servings)
£1.00 - 3 Large Onions (6+ servings, 4 for the sake of maths)
This gives you two large fajitas for £1.50, or £0.75 each, with extra onion left over. More filling, nutritional, and at a similar/potentially cheaper price than McDonalds.
[QUOTE=Noss;44369521]buying healthy food is cheaper, in the UK at least
the people who say it isn't either live with their parents or don't want to take responsibility for their own health[/QUOTE]
I feel like all food in the UK is expensive and the stuff that you're listing just proves it
Anyway, I've been brought away from the main argument, but this is the bottom line:
If the government decide to go with this, that means that they are deciding what is right for somebodies health, rather than the individual making that decision. Not only is this fundamentally wrong in a first world country, or any country for that matter, but it simply will not work. Prohibition has never worked, shown by alcohol prohibition in the USA, and the war on drugs.
The only reason people are supporting this is because tobacco users have been demonized constantly by the media in recent years, so suddenly its okay to strip them of their rights. However, if the same argument was used against prohibiting the sale of alcohol and marijuana people would be up in arms about this.
Prohibition does not work, education does. Yes, I smoke a couple of cigarettes a day and when I go out drinking, but because of information I've been given all my life I know not to get addicted, or I'm putting my life at serious risk. Actually, the vast majority of people I know who smoke only do it socially on nights out.
If you still hate tobacco users, fine, I can't change that. So don't be against this for the rights of tobacco users, but stand against it for our basic human rights and having the freedom to decide what is best for ourselves.
-snip snop-
this will just mean more scabby twelve year olds asking to buy fags off of me ugh
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;44370271]I wouldnt give a shit what people do to ruin their body, but when it starts to affect others via secondhand shit, thats when I'm against it.[/QUOTE]
There have been studies suggesting that second hand smoking isn't nearly as harmful as previously thought, but lets say for the sake of argument that it is harmful.
In the UK smoking in public places indoors has been banned, and so has smoking inside a car. This means that the only place somebody can feasibly smoke in public is outside. This means that the smoke dissipates almost immediately after it is exhaled, and is negligible compared to the other toxins from traffic and factories that you would be inhaling in the city anyway.
Even if somebody is smoking next to you outside, were you to ask they would probably stop or move away. Second hand smoke is pretty much a non-threat in the UK right now aside from domestic situations. At this point I partially agree with you, and think that laws should be put in place to stop parents from smoking in close proximity to their children.
[QUOTE=Topzombie;44362210]Because Facepunch likes to bandwagon on hating tobacco while other stuff (especially weed) is perfectly fine.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/pot-smoking-students-better-at-school-than-marginalized-tobacco-smoking-peers-1.1745098[/url]
yeah pot smokers do better in school than tobacco smokers, even if the tobacco smokers also smoke weed so that viewpoint is 100% justified
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;44361965]which is stupid, electronic cigarettes are less dangerous because it's vapour and not smoke, not to mention there are far fewer chemicals.
why would you treat them the same?[/QUOTE]
i didnt realize that made sitting in the asshole next to me's cloud of redbull flavored vapor not annoying
I want smoking to be truly eradicated but this is not the way to do it
[QUOTE=Noss;44371412]There have been studies suggesting that second hand smoking isn't nearly as harmful as previously thought, but lets say for the sake of argument that it is harmful.
In the UK smoking in public places indoors has been banned, and so has smoking inside a car. This means that the only place somebody can feasibly smoke in public is outside. This means that the smoke dissipates almost immediately after it is exhaled, and is negligible compared to the other toxins from traffic and factories that you would be inhaling in the city anyway.
Even if somebody is smoking next to you outside, were you to ask they would probably stop or move away. Second hand smoke is pretty much a non-threat in the UK right now aside from domestic situations. At this point I partially agree with you, and think that laws should be put in place to stop parents from smoking in close proximity to their children.[/QUOTE]
I don't smoke, but I know smokers. Almost all of them are very safe about it and only smoke outside away from their kids. Smoking is really unhealthy, but we already have enough restrictions on it. Restricting it anymore would just be dumb and pointless.
[QUOTE=W key broke;44371676][url]http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/pot-smoking-students-better-at-school-than-marginalized-tobacco-smoking-peers-1.1745098[/url]
yeah pot smokers do better in school than tobacco smokers, even if the tobacco smokers also smoke weed so that viewpoint is 100% justified[/QUOTE]
Yeah that study doesn't actually prove that smoking weed is the causation of people doing better in school, there is just a -potential- correlation. People shouldn't be citing this until there is a proven cause.
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