• NRA calls for more regulation of bump stock devices used by shooter.
    276 replies, posted
I won't lose any sleep over bumpfire stocks being banned, they've never been anything more than a useless, unreliable novelty toy. Same with gatcranks. I'd just like to point out though, there's nothing anybody will be able to do to prevent someone from 3-d printing one if they really want one. Just as long as they don't pass a batshit stupid regulation that says replacing the trigger pack on my AR with a better one is illegal, I really don't give a damn.
[QUOTE=mcharest;52750659]Are you fucking serious right now? The NRA makes one tiny concession, not even endorsing a ban on bump stocks but merely suggesting additional regulation, more for the sake of PR than anything, and suddenly they're a gaggle of sunshine patriots abandoning the Second Amendment? The same NRA that's kept a stranglehold on gun control legislation for decades by pumping millions of dollars into politicians' campaign funds? The same NRA that churns out [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtGOQFf9VCE]literal propaganda[/url] to whip gun owners into a panic? That NRA? Amazing. Someone so much as breathes a whisper of banning bump stocks, and you're whining about how you have no rights anymore. You have a seriously warped view of your own rights my man.[/QUOTE] The NRA is notorious for fucking us over in things. They did not put a fight against the Hughes Amendment, and almost all of the recent big-box legislation has been mostly done by the Gun Owners of America with help from the Heller Foundation. When the NRA goes after New York and California for their Assault Weapon Bans, and actually tries to muscle a defense of getting suppressors finally unregulated alongside short barreled weapons, let me know. Until then, they are constantly giving ground too people who are [I]never[/I] satisfied.
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;52750870]The NRA is notorious for fucking us over in things. They did not put a fight against the Hughes Amendment, and almost all of the recent big-box legislation has been mostly done by the Gun Owners of America with help from the Heller Foundation. When the NRA goes after New York and California for their Assault Weapon Bans, and actually tries to muscle a defense of getting suppressors finally unregulated alongside short barreled weapons, let me know. Until then, they are constantly giving ground too people who are [I]never[/I] satisfied.[/QUOTE] The firearms lobby will never be satisfied until all weapons are legal. The gun control lobby will never be satisfied until all guns are banned. [i]That's why compromise is a thing that happens sometimes.[/i]
[QUOTE=TraderRager;52750863]There was no reason bump-stocks should have been legal in the first place. They have no practical application bar mass homicide. In a hunting or gun-range environment all they do is completely throw off your aim and make recentering your rifle impossible. They are a huge safety hazard to anyone who uses them and exist only to circumvent automatic weapon bans in the most braindead way possible. The NRA is fucked in the head, but they aren't stupid enough to make this the sword they fall on.[/QUOTE] I mostly agree with what you're saying in principle, but [QUOTE]They are a huge safety hazard to anyone who uses them[/QUOTE] Nah. So long as you keep it pointed downrange, it's no more a safety hazard than an actual full-auto. Not like it can go runaway either, unless you're dumping thousands of rounds through it in one go.
[QUOTE=TraderRager;52750876]The firearms lobby will never be satisfied until all weapons are legal. The gun control lobby will never be satisfied until all guns are banned. [i]That's why compromise is a thing that happens sometimes.[/i][/QUOTE] What compromise? We have yet to get anything of any considerable value for the last decade. I want my damn suppressor and short barreled weapons, and I want them now!
[QUOTE=Psychokitten;52750865]I won't lose any sleep over bumpfire stocks being banned, they've never been anything more than a useless, unreliable novelty toy. Same with gatcranks. I'd just like to point out though, there's nothing anybody will be able to do to prevent someone from 3-d printing one if they really want one. [B]Just as long as they don't pass a batshit stupid regulation that says replacing the trigger pack on my AR with a better one is illegal, I really don't give a damn.[/B][/QUOTE] That's literally what they're going to do though if the bill keeps its vague wording. Any combination of parts which can "accelerate the rate of fire" sounds more than vague enough to eliminate half of the firearms accessory market if they can successfully argue that having a lightweight trigger increases fire rate. I'd really rather not give them the chance to make that argument and send people straight to jail.
[QUOTE=TraderRager;52750876]The firearms lobby will never be satisfied until all weapons are legal. The gun control lobby will never be satisfied until all guns are banned. [i]That's why compromise is a thing that happens sometimes.[/i][/QUOTE] Then they need to give us something. Whether it be passing SHARE or repealing the Hughes Amendment. Don't come trying to take our fucking shit and then cry that we don't compromise when they won't offer anything up.
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;52750884]What compromise? We have yet to get anything of any considerable value for the last decade. I want my damn suppressor and short barreled weapons, and I want them now![/QUOTE] And damn any consequences that those devices being on the market have! The shooters in Tucson, Newtown, Orlando, and Vegas all had legally acquired firearms that fell within federal guidelines. Imagine how much worse the devastation in Orlando could have been if Omar Mateen had 100% legal QCB optimized silenced rifle that would have been barely audible under the thumping bass of the club. There are GOOD FUCKING REASONS those things are illegal, as much as it annoys you that you can't use them in your hobby. [editline]6th October 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=darkrei9n;52750900]Then they need to give us something. Whether it be passing SHARE or repealing the Hughes Amendment. Don't come trying to take our fucking shit and then cry that we don't compromise when they won't offer anything up.[/QUOTE] I definitely agree many of gun laws our stupid. I'm just saying if a chemical plant explosion kills 50 people and injures 400 more they wouldn't be arguing for tax breaks in exchange for tighter regulations.
[QUOTE=TraderRager;52750916]And damn any consequences that those devices being on the market have! The shooters in Tucson, Newtown, Orlando, and Vegas all had legally acquired firearms that fell within federal guidelines. Imagine how much worse the devastation in Orlando could have been if Omar Mateen had 100% legal QCB optimized silenced rifle that would have been barely audible under the thumping bass of the club. There are GOOD FUCKING REASONS those things are illegal, as much as it annoys you that you can't use them in your hobby. [editline]6th October 2017[/editline] I definitely agree many of gun laws our stupid. I'm just saying if a chemical plant explosion kills 50 people and injures 400 more they wouldn't be arguing for tax breaks in exchange for tighter regulations.[/QUOTE] Once again, a suppressor does not make a gun silent. It would have still been louder than the music.
[QUOTE=TraderRager;52750916]And damn any consequences that those devices being on the market have! The shooters in Tucson, Newtown, Orlando, and Vegas all had legally acquired firearms that fell within federal guidelines. Imagine how much worse the devastation in Orlando could have been if Omar Mateen had 100% legal QCB optimized silenced rifle that would have been barely audible under the thumping bass of the club. There are GOOD FUCKING REASONS those things are illegal, as much as it annoys you that you can't use them in your hobby. [editline]6th October 2017[/editline] I definitely agree many of gun laws our stupid. I'm just saying if a chemical plant explosion kills 50 people and injures 400 more they wouldn't be arguing for tax breaks in exchange for tighter regulations.[/QUOTE] A silencer typically lowers the sound of a gunshot to about the same as a jackhammer. If a jackhammer was going off in a club I imagine you would hear it. There are not good reasons they are illegal. I'm not even arguing for more tax breaks. I'll happily pay a 300 dollar tax stamp if it let me register more automatics. Give something up in return or shutup when you come to compromise cause it ain't compromising if both parties won't give something up.
[QUOTE=Boaraes;52750929]Once again, a suppressor does not make a gun silent. It would have still been louder than the music.[/QUOTE] Nightclubs tend to range between 98db and 115db. A silenced .223 rifle clocks in a 134 db vs. 165 db unsilenced. 30 db is a big fucking deal, especially since the report of a silenced rifle is much lower and less immediately apparent then that of a naked one.
[QUOTE=TraderRager;52750950]Nightclubs tend to range between 98db and 115db. A silenced .223 rifle clocks in a 134 db vs. 165 db unsilenced. 30 db is a big fucking deal, especially since the report of a silenced rifle is much lower and less immediately apparent then that of a naked one.[/QUOTE] Just 3 dB is almost twice the power. 10 dB is twice the loudness. dB are an exponential scale.
[QUOTE=TraderRager;52750950]Nightclubs tend to range between 98db and 115db. A silenced .223 rifle clocks in a 134 db vs. 165 db unsilenced[/QUOTE] You just proved his point...
[QUOTE=AlbertWesker;52750285]I'm not ok with a flat ban. If we're allowed to have fully automatic drop in triggers (for an extortionate amount of money) then why can't we have a piece of plastic which enhances the controlability of a rapid fire shooting technique?[/QUOTE] Because said piece of plastic is clearly and explicitly a way to achieve full auto fire without being subject to the rules normally associated with it. It's a product explicitly created to abuse a loophole in the law, and I think it's worthy of a ban. Regardless, it should be just as hard to get approval to have a bumpfire stock as it is to have a real fully automatic weapon, even if they aren't outright banned.
[QUOTE=TraderRager;52750950]Nightclubs tend to range between 98db and 115db. A silenced .223 rifle clocks in a 134 db vs. 165 db unsilenced. 30 db is a big fucking deal, especially since the report of a silenced rifle is much lower and less immediately apparent then that of a naked one.[/QUOTE] Thats still 20db louder than a nightclub going full blast. And that means its a fucking [i]lot[/i] louder than a nightclub. Also they're not silencers, they're suppressors, they dont silence the sound, they suppress it.
[QUOTE=darkrei9n;52750957]Just 3 dB is almost twice the power. 10 dB is twice the loudness. dB are an exponential scale.[/QUOTE] So your saying that unsilenced rifle is roughly 12 times as loud as your average nightclub, but if it was 2.5 times as loud instead it would be the exact same risk? That doesn't pass any sort of fucking sniff test.
[QUOTE=TraderRager;52750969]So your saying that unsilenced rifle is roughly 12 times as loud as your average nightclub, but if it was 2.5 times as loud instead it would be the exact same risk? That doesn't pass any sort of fucking sniff test.[/QUOTE] What?
[QUOTE=AaronM202;52750967]Also [b]they're not silencers, they're suppressors,[/b] they dont silence the sound, they suppress it.[/QUOTE] That's just pure semantics and you know it. It still makes the gun much quieter. It's still placing human lives as an unnecessary risk. [editline]6th October 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Talon 733;52750962]You just proved his point...[/QUOTE] No, I proved that that is a substantial fucking margin of difference. [editline]6th October 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=AaronM202;52750971]What?[/QUOTE] Somewhat louder =/= deafeningly loud. I don't know why that's a hard concept to grasp.
[QUOTE=TraderRager;52750975]That's just pure semantics and you know it. It still makes the gun much quieter. It's still placing human lives as an unnecessary risk. [/QUOTE] No its not, a silencer is something that silences, as in it removes sound absolutely, a suppressor is something that suppresses, it dampens and lessens something. That "semantic" talk is exactly why people think "silencers" make guns quiet and do "fwip fwip" noises.
[QUOTE=cis.joshb;52750966]Because said piece of plastic is clearly and explicitly a way to achieve full auto fire without being subject to the rules normally associated with it. It's a product explicitly created to abuse a loophole in the law, and I think it's worthy of a ban. Regardless, it should be just as hard to get approval to have a bumpfire stock as it is to have a real fully automatic weapon, even if they aren't outright banned.[/QUOTE] Except you can do this with nothing. You don't need a stock, you don't need a belt loop, you just need to let the recoil push the gun back while pulling it forward slightly.
[QUOTE=AlbertWesker;52750851]They're mistaking arm braces for bumpfire stocks... welp we're screwed. 90% of firearm accessories are going to be banned now. GG[/QUOTE] No they aren't. Read the article they link. [url]https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/susan-jones/bump-stock-device-received-atf-green-light-during-obama-administration?mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiTnpNMU56bG1OVEUzTkRsaSIsInQiOiJmNWkzbkNzSVp6dnVXZlNxU1ZVQUZXNkhTZW5xUjFhbEVnMGVnYjlQQzlNamlFVkRlNnJlM1E2K1wvZXBMR1lGMzhKRTF2VU5ZRklhajduRVJWNlF6cEhkaFVIOTZSdGZFSUV4Z3kzSU0rYU53UlJJV2pGUE15emlvTWROTnJMZTAifQ%3D%3D[/url] [quote]The ATF, in reply, wrote: “Your letter advises that the stock (referenced in this reply as a ‘bump stock’) is intended to assist persons whose hands have limited mobility to ‘bump fire’ an AR-15 type rifle.”[/quote]
[QUOTE=TraderRager;52750975] No, I proved that that is a substantial fucking margin of difference.[/QUOTE] That its still louder than a nightclub? [QUOTE=TraderRager;52750975]Somewhat louder =/= deafeningly loud. I don't know why that's a hard concept to grasp.[/QUOTE] Firstly, yes that is indeed the purpose of suppressors. Secondly, are you aware that bullets are pieces of metal moving at supersonic speed? As in breaking the sound barrier?
[img]http://precisionrifleblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/rifle-suppressor1.png[/img] [img]https://i1.wp.com/fmshooter.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/DB-chart.png?resize=550%2C520[/img] [img]https://crimefictionbook.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/silencer-noise-levels.jpg[/img] Again, people ask why do gun owners fight back so hard. Its because people don't know what they're talking about.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;52750989]That its still louder than a nightclub? Firstly, yes that is indeed the purpose of suppressors. Secondly, are you aware that bullets are pieces of metal moving at hypersonic speed? As in breaking the sound barrier?[/QUOTE] A sound crack still isn't as fucking deafeningly obvious as unsuppressed rifle. The quieter a weapon is, the less likely someone is to be able to identify it quickly. It's the difference between light rain and a torrential down pour.
[QUOTE=TraderRager;52750876]The firearms lobby will never be satisfied until all weapons are legal. The gun control lobby will never be satisfied until all guns are banned. [i]That's why compromise is a thing that happens sometimes.[/i][/QUOTE] "Compromise" is not "we're taking [i]just [/i]this away, be glad we're not taking more". Compromise is give and take. Taking something away and giving nothing in return is not a compromise lol.
[QUOTE=TraderRager;52750998]A sound crack still isn't as fucking deafeningly obvious as unsuppressed rifle. The quieter a weapon is, the less likely someone is to be able to identify it quickly. It's the difference between light rain and a torrential down pour.[/QUOTE] If you're in a night club and you can't hear the thing that is literally almost as loud as a jet engine, you should really go get your hearing checked unless of course, you're already deaf.
[QUOTE=TraderRager;52750998]A sound crack still isn't as fucking deafeningly obvious as unsuppressed rifle. The quieter a weapon is, the less likely someone is to be able to identify it quickly. It's the difference between light rain and a torrential down pour.[/QUOTE] What is it exactly that you're trying to say? This thing is ungodly stupid loud, vs. this thing being (literally) deafeningly loud, they're both extremely loud.
[QUOTE=TraderRager;52750916]And damn any consequences that those devices being on the market have! The shooters in Tucson, Newtown, Orlando, and Vegas all had legally acquired firearms that fell within federal guidelines. Imagine how much worse the devastation in Orlando could have been if Omar Mateen had 100% legal QCB optimized silenced rifle that would have been barely audible under the thumping bass of the club. There are GOOD FUCKING REASONS those things are illegal, as much as it annoys you that you can't use them in your hobby. [editline]6th October 2017[/editline] I definitely agree many of gun laws our stupid. I'm just saying if a chemical plant explosion kills 50 people and injures 400 more they wouldn't be arguing for tax breaks in exchange for tighter regulations.[/QUOTE] Yea and Columbine occured during the 1994 AWB with AWB compliant weaponry and illegally procured ones. But yea, gunbans certainly work.
[QUOTE=MR-X;52750996][img]http://precisionrifleblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/rifle-suppressor1.png[/img] [img]https://i1.wp.com/fmshooter.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/DB-chart.png?resize=550%2C520[/img] Again, people ask why do gun owners fight back so hard. Its because people don't know what they're talking about.[/QUOTE] I know exactly what I'm talking about. If you want to go fire your gun on the range, great. Buy hearing protection. Your goddamn hobby isn't worth needlessly endangering lives by making suppressors widely available on the market. A lot more innocent people would be alive right now if someone had the sense to ban bumpstocks before Vegas. A lot more people will die probably die the next time someone shoots up a nightclub or concert if suppressors are legalized. I'm not ignorant about your plight, I honestly just don't give a shit about it.
[QUOTE=TraderRager;52750998]A sound crack still isn't as fucking deafeningly obvious as unsuppressed rifle. The quieter a weapon is, the less likely someone is to be able to identify it quickly. It's the difference between light rain and a torrential down pour.[/QUOTE] Have you ever actually been around a suppressed rifle? They're so loud that it will still damage your hearing without earpro. Youre talking directly out of your ass and the statistics you provided completely disprove your point.
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