Stephen Fry hits back at accusations of Islamophobia
344 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Gatsby;42048724]As an great man once said, “The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.”[/QUOTE]
As a great man once said, "jesus christ really why are you doing this"
[QUOTE=Gatsby;42048724]As an great man once said, “The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.”[/QUOTE]
yea but im not putting my money on the tooth fairy existing.
[QUOTE=supersnail11;42048693]could you please summarize i'm not going to watch a 2 hour video for this[/QUOTE]
Most Scientist's who believe in God, Turn atheist temporary once they enter the lab.
You can only have God and Science mutuality exclusive if you're either emotional or ignorant.
All you need to do is apply the same process that you do in the lab when you get out of it.
I can't really summarize, but if you want to understand I think it's worth your time.
Watch it once you have the time.
[QUOTE=Shreddinger;42048679][video=youtube;RKNd_S3iXfs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKNd_S3iXfs[/video][/QUOTE]
I have trouble believing your thoughts on the matter are so incredibly nuanced that they require a 2 hour video. Learn to summarise sheesh
[QUOTE=Gatsby;42048724]As an great man once said, “The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.”[/QUOTE]
IF SOMETHING CAN'T BE PROVEN OR DISPROVEN IT'S IDIOTIC TO ASSUME IT EXISTS AND IT'S LOGICAL TO ASSUME IT DOESN'T
[QUOTE=Shreddinger;42048736]Most Scientist's who believe in God, Turn atheist temporary once they enter the lab.
You can only have God and Science mutuality exclusive if you're either emotional or ignorant.
All you need to do is apply the same process that you do in the lab when you get out of it.
I can't really summarize, but if you want to understand I think it's worth your time.
Watch it once you have the time.[/QUOTE]
What's to say that god didn't just start the big bang and leave the rest of it up to everyone else? Claiming that science and god are incompatible based on solely christian beliefs is ignorant and close-minded.
[QUOTE=supersnail11;42048763]What's to say that god didn't just start the big bang and leave the rest of it up to everyone else? Claiming that science and god are incompatible based on solely christian beliefs is ignorant and close-minded.[/QUOTE]
That doesn't really solve anything, it makes the situation even more complicated and brings up a lot more questions.
[QUOTE=Shreddinger;42048771]That doesn't really solve anything, it makes the situation even more complicated and brings up a lot more questions.[/QUOTE]
I didn't say it would solve anything. But you're claiming that it's impossible to believe in a deity as well as accepting modern scientific research. And that's simply not the case.
[QUOTE=supersnail11;42048784]I didn't say it would solve anything. But you're claiming that it's impossible to believe in a deity as well as accepting modern scientific research. And that's simply not the case.[/QUOTE]
Of course it's possible, it's just ignorant to do so.
I can't summarize simply because I don't have the required language skills to do so, but I urge you to watch Carroll's lecture if you want to understand, he addresses this issue exclusively and in a very scientific way.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42048734]yea but im not putting my money on the tooth fairy existing.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. That's agnosticism.
[QUOTE=Shreddinger;42048792]Of course it's possible, it's just ignorant to do so.[/QUOTE]
Is it? And why is that?
[QUOTE=Gatsby;42048801]Exactly. That's agnosticism.[/QUOTE]
and atheism
[QUOTE=supersnail11;42048807]Is it? And why is that?[/QUOTE]
Because God is not a good theory.
Watch the lecture if you want to understand, I can't summarize because I don't have the skills.
I don't think I've seen a better lecture.
What I saw.
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/111996868/stephenacon.JPG[/IMG]
I wasn't that far off :v:
[QUOTE=Gatsby;42048801]Exactly. That's agnosticism.[/QUOTE]
no not really
you're misunderstanding what agnosticism is
just because I don't have an opinion founded one way or the other on the invisible unicorn that is behind me, doesn't mean it's safe to bet equally on either side. if you're siding on either side you're not an agnostic. you have to be on the fence to be one.
it's a redundant point of view.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;42047736]a culture that disenfranchises and abuses women doesn't deserve respect[/QUOTE]
iirc women in Islam are actually held in very high regards. Muhammads wife was a very important scholar, and Islam promoted equal rights for both women and men, while western countries didn't allow such things. The whole abuse women thing comes more from culture + assholes
This is what my sister tells me, and she's a Muslim so I trust what she says.
[QUOTE=supersnail11;42048807]Is it? And why is that?[/QUOTE]
well unless we're going to live under the premise that you can't know anything for sure, and evidence isn't worthwhile in the understanding of the universe
an abrahamic god is almost impossible, and entirely unneeded in the explanation of any event that we know of
other gods could be argued but some are just logically inadequate ideas that contradict themselves too heavily to exist.
[QUOTE=Shreddinger;42048824]Because God is not a good theory.
Watch the lecture if you want to understand, I can't because I don't have the skills.
I don't think I've seen a better lecture.[/QUOTE]
I'm not watching the lecture so I'll have to try to respond to what I think you're saying.
Basically, you think that it's illogical to believe that a god exists because we haven't discovered anything that proves god. And that's where you're wrong.
I don't believe that a god exists, and I don't believe that anyone has proven that god exists to me. But obviously, those who do believe in god do so because they believe that they have proof. So while it would be illogical for you or me to take up a religion, being that we have no proof that we believe in, many others feel that they have proof. That means that it's not illogical for them to do so, but they might be wrong.
tl;dr those who believe in science and are religious do so because, to them, god is proven to exist, while that may not be the case to the rest of us
It's amazing how you guys have been going at it for three pages over something utterly irrelevant to the main topic.
The existence of God isn't the issue, the existence of dogma and cultural values that stifle independent thought or oppress large portions of your population for arbitrary/nonexistent reasons is.
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;42048855]It's amazing how you guys have been going at it for three pages over something utterly irrelevant to the main topic.
The existence of God isn't the issue, the existence of dogma and cultural values that stifle independent thought or oppress large portions of your population for arbitrary/nonexistent reasons is.[/QUOTE]
what a divorced and separate issue from religi-
oh wait it's not
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;42048855]It's amazing how you guys have been going at it for three pages over something utterly irrelevant to the main topic.[/QUOTE]
you do realize you're on facepunch right
[QUOTE=Araknid;42048836]iirc women in Islam are actually held in very high regards. Muhammads wife was a very important scholar, and Islam promoted equal rights for both women and men, while western countries didn't allow such things. The whole abuse women thing comes more from culture + assholes
This is what my sister tells me, and she's a Muslim so I trust what she says.[/QUOTE]
i don't know, all the abrahamic religions are pretty awful when it comes to women. i guess in theory islam can be a bit more progressive than the other 2, but as with the other 2 it obviously has it's part's that sound good, but the beliefs and texts are so full of contradictions
[QUOTE=supersnail11;42048849]I'm not watching the lecture so I'll have to try to respond to what I think you're saying.
Basically, you think that it's illogical to believe that a god exists because we haven't discovered anything that proves god. And that's where you're wrong.
I don't believe that a god exists, and I don't believe that anyone has proven that god exists to me. But obviously, those who do believe in god do so because they believe that they have proof. So while it would be illogical for you or me to take up a religion, being that we have no proof that we believe in, many others feel that they have proof. That means that it's not illogical for them to do so, but they might be wrong.
tl;dr those who believe in science and are religious do so because, to them, god is proven to exist, while that may not be the case to the rest of us[/QUOTE]
so instead of saying the religious are illogical, you are saying that they are deluded/mentally insane?
[QUOTE=supersnail11;42048849]I'm not watching the lecture so I'll have to try to respond to what I think you're saying.
Basically, you think that it's illogical to believe that a god exists because we haven't discovered anything that proves god. And that's where you're wrong.
I don't believe that a god exists, and I don't believe that anyone has proven that god exists to me. But obviously, those who do believe in god do so because they believe that they have proof. So while it would be illogical for you or me to take up a religion, being that we have no proof that we believe in, many others feel that they have proof. That means that it's not illogical for them to do so, but they might be wrong.
tl;dr those who believe in science and are religious do so because, to them, god is proven to exist, while that may not be the case to the rest of us[/QUOTE]
A belief in a God is not rational if that what you're trying to say.
And that's not what I'm saying at all, please refrain from replying to what you think I meant if you don't actually know.
Once you watch the lecture, give your well thought out opinion here.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42048867]so instead of saying the religious are illogical, you are saying that they are deluded/mentally insane?[/QUOTE]
no? my point was that those who are religious are religious because they feel that god is proven to be real, whether that is true or not from someone else's perspective
[QUOTE=Shreddinger;42048824]Because God is not a good theory.
Watch the lecture if you want to understand, I can't summarize because I don't have the skills.
I don't think I've seen a better lecture.[/QUOTE]
In my opinion, God isn't a great theory either, nor a very healthy one, but you got to understand how ingrained religion is, even to this day, in our society and in our minds. Many of us have accepted the idea that a God exists for tens of thousands of years. Now although I believe that if something can't be proven or disproven, it probably doesn't exist, just like Lachz0r said, many people may not be happy with that answer. They may instead believe that the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. There is that nagging feeling in them that a god MIGHT exist. We have a natural tendency to go with the God theory because it's very simple and explains a lot of questions that we don't quite have the answers for yet, so I hardly think it's ignorant to believe in a god.
[QUOTE=supersnail11;42048883]no? my point was that those who are religious are religious because they feel that god is proven to be real, whether that is true or not from someone else's perspective[/QUOTE]
So you're saying that proof is subjective?
[QUOTE=Shreddinger;42048872]A belief in a God is not rational if that what you're trying to say.
And that's not what I'm saying at all, please refrain from replying to what you think I meant if you don't actually know.
Once you watch the lecture, give your well thought out opinion here.[/QUOTE]
i'm not watching the lecture, end of story
you could instead summarize what you mean and that'd work so much better
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;42047875]Yes but if you don't hold a belief in a deity you still are by definition an atheist. This includes not caring and not having an opinion.[/QUOTE]
He could be referring to Apatheism though which does straddle the line between theist, and atheist agnosticism.
[QUOTE=elevate;42048886]In my opinion, God isn't a great theory either, nor a very healthy one, but you got to understand how ingrained religion is, even to this day, in our society and in our minds. Many of us have accepted the idea that a God exists for tens of thousands of years. Now although I believe that if something can't be proven or disproven, it probably doesn't exist, just like Lachz0r said, many people may not be happy with that answer. They may instead believe that the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. There is that nagging feeling in them that a god MIGHT exist. We have a natural tendency to go with the God theory because it's very simple and explains a lot of questions that we don't quite have the answers for yet, so I hardly think it's ignorant to believe in a god.[/QUOTE]
Just because some theory is easier to accept makes the person accepting it not ignorant?
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