Stephen Fry hits back at accusations of Islamophobia
344 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Araknid;42049328]Explain why hundreds, if not thousands of women convert to Islam even in western countries if it is such an oppressive religion?[/QUOTE]
Are you looking for a rational explanation?
[QUOTE=Sableye;42048504]but they are not respecting OUR cultures by attacking others for not being like them and trying to force THEIR beliefs and customs on us. Islam in america has existed peacefully for decades because they respect the laws and customs of this country and are not trying to radicalize it.
still you're right hes a prick for assuming anyone who believes in religion is an idiot, especially since atheism has essentially become a religion unto itself[/QUOTE]
Atheism is a religion as long as non-smoking is a habit.
[QUOTE=barrab;42047716]he's a prick with no respect for other's cultures.[/QUOTE]
respect is earned
[QUOTE=Shreddinger;42049349]Are you looking for a rational explanation?[/QUOTE]
That not everyone follows the Quran to the word?
[QUOTE=barttool;42047772]You could accuse western culture of more or less the same.[/QUOTE]
Thats pretty funny.
[QUOTE=Araknid;42049328]Explain why hundreds, if not thousands of women convert to Islam even in western countries if it is such an oppressive religion?[/QUOTE]
same reason there are gay christians?
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42049589]same reason there are self-loathing gay christians?[/QUOTE]
Fix'd that for you.
[QUOTE=Alex_DeLarge;42047775]You're either a theist, an agnostic theist, an agnostic atheist or an atheist. There is nothing in between. Pick one.[/QUOTE]
you forgot apathiest
people who really just don't care about religious debates and think we could be doing better things in life
I'm all for his opinion. All this religious bullshit leads to maniacs having a power trip and ordering people to do things "in the name of their lord/god/leader/ruler".
I only believe in the old gods and may Cthulhu flay me alive with boiling lava if I'm not damn sure he's the only true god of gods.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42049092]
i like epicurus' trilemma:
if God is unable to prevent evil, he is not omnipotent
if God is not willing to prevent evil, he is not good
if God is willing and able to prevent evil, then why is there evil?[/QUOTE]
mmm yes let us quantify omnipotence through human perceptions of good and evil
[QUOTE=ThatSprite;42051070]you forgot apathiest
people who really just don't care about religious debates and think we could be doing better things in life[/QUOTE]
Even if you don't give the slightest shit, you still lean one way or another.
[QUOTE=Alex_DeLarge;42051237]Even if you don't give the slightest shit, you still lean one way or another.[/QUOTE]And cared enough to post in a thread about it.
[QUOTE=Gatsby;42048169]Agnostics on atheism: On the other end of the spectrum, unlike atheists, an agnostic uses a more scientific approach to their belief system. [B]An agnostic knows that just because there is no physical proof of the existence of a higher being, it dose not automatically mean that one does not exist.[/B] An agnostic views an atheist on the same plane as a religious zealot; often because the belief that human beings are the pinnacle of intelligence and there are few things that we do not or have the potential to understand.
The realization of knowing that “we cannot know everything” is the backbone of the agnostic belief.[/QUOTE]
What crap. If there is no evidence or proof to show the existence of the higher being, you reject the theory until there is. Currently there is no proof, therefore you don't just assume it's there.
We're back to the flying teapot, or great Juju up the mountain. Just because we haven't got any definitive proof they're not there doesn't mean we assume that they might be. We just continue as if there is not.
Same applies for "we cannot know everything". I know there's a lot of stuff I don't know about. I don't think the tooth fairy is actually real, however I've never seen proof that they don't, so am I a-toothfairyist? No I say they're not real.
[QUOTE=Gatsby;42048169]There is no agnostic atheism or agnostic theism. Those are outdated terms from years ago. It doesnt matter how far you lean, you are just an agnostic.
An agnostic is a person who believes that the existence of a greater power, such as a god, cannot be proven or disproved; therefore an agnostic wallows in the complexity of the existence of higher beings.
Agnostics on religion (Christianity, Islam, Buddhists, etc): Religious zealots are often viewed as ignorant by agnostics’ because of their blind following of a supreme being which may or may not exist. Agnostics will often question the existence of a supreme power because a lot of modern religious beliefs have no basis in modern logic; therefore blind following of popular religions is viewed as an easy out for people who chose not to think for themselves.
Agnostics on atheism: On the other end of the spectrum, unlike atheists, an agnostic uses a more scientific approach to their belief system. An agnostic knows that just because there is no physical proof of the existence of a higher being, it dose not automatically mean that one does not exist. An agnostic views an atheist on the same plane as a religious zealot; often because the belief that human beings are the pinnacle of intelligence and there are few things that we do not or have the potential to understand.
The realization of knowing that “we cannot know everything” is the backbone of the agnostic belief.[/QUOTE]
So youre telling me the guy who goes, "ONCE UPON A TIME THERE WERE TWO PEOPLE IN A GARDEN WITH TALKING SNAKES AND MUCH GNASHING OF TEETH HALLELUJA",
Is just as reasonable as the guy who calls him batshit insane?
[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;42047750]Agnosticism is pretty much a non-stance; you either err one way or the other.
[editline]2nd September 2013[/editline]
Culture is not an excuse for barbarism.[/QUOTE]
Try Apathetic Agnosticism then (This is in my own words but sums it up nicely.);
I believe there may be a god or multiple gods, though I am not attached to any specific one. They cannot be proven or disproven through scientific or religious research and if they do exist they seem to have no attachment to the fate of mankind and therefore do not directly affect me.
I wish people would realise the difference between criticising Islam and criticising Islamists. One is just a religion, the other is effectively a theocratic political movement that people have every right to criticise.
[QUOTE=ViralHatred;42051546]Try Apathetic Agnosticism then (This is in my own words but sums it up nicely.);
I believe there may be a god or multiple gods, though I am not attached to any specific one. They cannot be proven or disproven through scientific or religious research and if they do exist they seem to have no attachment to the fate of mankind and therefore do not directly affect me.[/QUOTE]
You have to lean one way or the other; all this is equivalent to being asked if the lights are on or off, and you responding "I don't care".
[QUOTE=Alex_DeLarge;42049758]Fix'd that for you.[/QUOTE]
what an idiotic statement. do you know many gay christians? did you know that christianity is not all the same vein?
[editline]2nd September 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;42052931]You have to lean one way or the other; all this is equivalent to being asked if the lights are on or off, and you responding "I don't care".[/QUOTE]
which is a valid response. if someone doesn't want to be involved, then don't involve them. simple as
[editline]2nd September 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42047977]i'v heard this called "apatheism". it's basically the idea that whether god exists or not is completely irrelevant to a person's life, so apatheists don't concern themselves with either belief or denial of any supernatural entity.[/QUOTE]
pretty much the same thing. but no, you absolutely have to group yourself into two specific mindsets. you can't think for yourself at all, you have to be involved!
[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;42052931]You have to lean one way or the other; all this is equivalent to being asked if the lights are on or off, and you responding "I don't care".[/QUOTE]
entirely untrue
this "there's no such thing as true agnosticism" is a load of shit perpetuated by that moron the amazing atheist
agnosticism is the lack of a belief, this leaning shit is a load of crap
[QUOTE=pfoot;42051152]mmm yes let us quantify omnipotence through human perceptions of good and evil[/QUOTE]
any god that has the power to end suffering, but doesn't, is not worthy of mine or anyone else's worship.
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;42053682]entirely untrue
this "there's no such thing as true agnosticism" is a load of shit [B][U]perpetuated by that moron the amazing atheist[/U][/B]
agnosticism is the lack of a belief, this leaning shit is a load of crap[/QUOTE]
Is your world view seriously this limited, that you credit a random youtuber for this train of thought instead of the actual originators? Stop arguing if you're going to be this unaware and loud.
[QUOTE=barrab;42047716]he's a prick with no respect for other's cultures.[/QUOTE]
How could anyone Call this guy a prick:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHxXcPC-PcM[/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_LWNHpejhM[/media]
[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;42052931]You have to lean one way or the other; all this is equivalent to being asked if the lights are on or off, and you responding "I don't care".[/QUOTE]
The world is not made up of extremes.
[QUOTE=elowin;42055838]The world is not made up of extremes.[/QUOTE]
- J.K. Rowling.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42053816]any god that has the power to end suffering, but doesn't, is not worthy of mine or anyone else's worship.[/QUOTE]
What about a god that respects free will?
[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;42058527]What about a god that respects free will?[/QUOTE]
wouldn't such a god intervene when someone is imposing their will on another, then? how could a god respect free will, and at the same time let it be destroyed constantly?
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42058611]wouldn't such a god intervene when someone is imposing their will on another, then? how could a god respect free will, and at the same time let it be destroyed constantly?[/QUOTE]
Well he's letting people act through their own free will, whether it is their will to oppress others' wills or not. Even those who are oppressed still have free will, they simply can't express it fully.
[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;42058751]Well he's letting people act through their own free will, whether it is their will to oppress others' wills or not. Even those who are oppressed still have free will, they simply can't express it fully.[/QUOTE]
What about people with mental illnesses.
[QUOTE=ThatSprite;42051070]you forgot apathiest
people who really just don't care about religious debates and think we could be doing better things in life[/QUOTE]
This is a valid point, and instead of rating dumb more people should read about [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism"]this[/URL] and [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theological_noncognitivism"]this[/URL] before making stupid assumptions about what one can/cannot believe.
Some people, like me, do find this debate truly meaningless.
If there is or isn't a "God", whatever a god may be, of what is the use for it in human life, society, or the endeavor of science?
[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;42058527]What about a god that respects free will?[/QUOTE]
well if we're still talking about the abrahamic god he didn't really seem to care about free will when he flooded the world. if we're just talking about a god in general then i don't see the point in worshiping something that will never have any effect on your life because it won't ever do anything due to respecting free will. and also, where does disease and famine factor into this? i'm sure removing that stuff doesn't mess with anyones free will at all
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