• Dawkins: "Being raised Catholic is worse than child abuse"
    355 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Daniel M;38942360]Stop with the "I'm so tired of atheists being dicks". They have to be. They need to point out how absolutely fucking insane their beliefs are.[/QUOTE] Just to clarify, you think atheism is insane, while religions are totally normal?
[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;38942400]Just to clarify, you think atheism is insane, while religions are totally normal?[/QUOTE] Really fucked that one up. I'll rewrite it.
[QUOTE=Swilly;38941754]What?[/QUOTE] Since this is the internet there's a large atheist population, but the "trendy" thing to do in these parts is whenever there's a thread where an atheist says/does anything that remotely challenges religion, people feel compelled to shout "WOW THOSE ATHEISTS ARE BEING ASSHOLES" without really saying why.
[QUOTE=Kasuga Ayumu;38942259]he's an athiest [B]and he thinks everyone who isn't is stupid[/B]. he dislikes a specific group (theists), therefore he is bigoted against that specific group you don't have to hate black people or whatever to be a bigot.[/QUOTE] well you do kind of need to convince yourself of some radical and unfounded notions in order to be a theist, having faith in something you have no reason to follow is a prerequisite of most religions [editline]23rd December 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;38942560]Since this is the internet there's a large atheist population, but the "trendy" thing to do in these parts is whenever there's a thread where an atheist says/does anything that remotely challenges religion, people feel compelled to shout "WOW THOSE ATHEISTS ARE BEING ASSHOLES" without really saying why.[/QUOTE] nah man they're [I][B]telling it[/B][/I] like it [B]IS[/B]
[QUOTE=Kasuga Ayumu;38942259]he's an athiest and he thinks everyone who isn't is stupid. he dislikes a specific group (theists), therefore he is bigoted against that specific group you don't have to hate black people or whatever to be a bigot.[/QUOTE] You're wrong. He claims theists are deluded (a verifiable claim). This does not mean he's calling them unintelligent across the board, only on that specific issue.
[QUOTE=Cone;38942568]well you do kind of need to convince yourself of some radical and unfounded notions in order to be a theist, having faith in something you have no reason to follow is a prerequisite of most religions [editline]23rd December 2012[/editline] nah man they're [I][B]telling it[/B][/I] like it [B]IS[/B][/QUOTE] See the thing is, no one even has faith, or it's at least rare, most people are born into their religion and told "there [i]is[/i] a God." There's no point where faith comes into it because you're told as a kid and you generally trust the people who are telling you this shit so you just believe them.
[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;38942586]See the thing is, no one even has faith, or it's at least rare, most people are born into their religion and told "there [i]is[/i] a God." There's no point where faith comes into it because you're told as a kid and you generally trust the people who are telling you this shit so you just believe them.[/QUOTE] So it basically revolves around doing what you're told and not really questioning your orders, even as it may go against your better judgement? So you'd either choose not to question, or be an obedient drone.
[QUOTE=Cone;38942628]So it basically revolves around doing what you're told and not really questioning your orders, even as it may go against your better judgement? So you'd either choose not to question, or be an obedient drone.[/QUOTE] Again you're assuming that there's any thought to it, it's something that has a minimal effect on most peoples lives so there's no need for people to pay attention to it, people need to care before they will form an actual opinion on the situation.
[QUOTE=Cone;38942628]So it basically revolves around doing what you're told and not really questioning your orders, even as it may go against your better judgement? So you'd either choose not to question, or be an obedient drone.[/QUOTE] He's saying since religious people are usually taught from a very young age about religion and god, it's something that is accepted with little question or critical examination. I'm not saying that's [I]good[/I], but that's how it often works.
[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;38942641]Again you're assuming that there's any thought to it, it's something that has a minimal effect on most peoples lives so there's no need for people to pay attention to it, people need to care before they will form an actual opinion on the situation.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;38942643]He's saying since religious people are usually taught from a very young age about religion and god, it's something that is accepted with little question or critical examination. I'm not saying that's [I]good[/I], but that's how it often works.[/QUOTE] oh right I get ya
[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;38942586]See the thing is, no one even has faith, or it's at least rare, most people are born into their religion and told "there [i]is[/i] a God." There's no point where faith comes into it because you're told as a kid and you generally trust the people who are telling you this shit so you just believe them.[/QUOTE] This is one of my biggest problems with people who are raised to be religious. (Mind you, I was too) You are essentially told to accept something as truth without any proof or freedom to make up your own mind. Sure, a toddler isn't going to be able to grasp these concepts, but it does hinder how they think as they develop. Teaching kids to accept things without proof intellectually stunts them as they grow up. Children need to be curious, they need to question the world around them, they need to experiment and find out how things work. The problem is that parents in religious households teach them values of unwavering faith, that you must simply accept basic explanations without searching for deeper answers and factual evidence. Of course religious people ask, "Well if you're all about facts and science then why can't you prove how the universe came into existence?" Of course we can't explain those facts now; we may never be able to, but simply accepting the God of the Gaps explanation is part of that subconscious indoctrination taught since birth. Parents need to raise their children to be inquisitive, to ask questions, to ask for proof, and of course be treated with some humility and respect for their own individual minds. This is a major problem with society; we are taught to sit down and shut up, accept what our parents have to say as pure gospel, and have an unquestionable faith in an omnipotent being. There is something wrong with that picture.
[QUOTE=coldroll5;38941126]Hell is only psychologically damaging if you explain it wrong or give a stupid reason as to why the person is going to hell. such as masturbating or having sex for instance. When I was a kid my parents would tell me if you kill someone or do evil acts you will go to hell for all eternity. And that kept me from doing bad things when I was kid and turned out fine. When I got older my parents told me hell wasn't real and I'm agnostic now but that is beside the point basically it teaches young kids not to do bad things.[/QUOTE] I was told only told something is bad only if I did something that bad. I turned out to be a good kid. They didn't need to tell me hurting someone is bad, such simple morals and empathy are probably hardwired to children. You probably didn't really believe in the actual christian hell exists. If you actually did, you'd probably be freaking the fuck out when you realized half of your friends are burning in hell, and you'd be thinking that you're not good enough, and or you don't believe enough to get to the heaven. That could be really traumatizing.
[QUOTE=matt.ant;38934044][b]No sane person would believe that being brought up in a force for good[/b], in the Ten Commandments, in the Beatitudes, and in the Gospels can be worse than child abuse.'[/QUOTE] Religion = Good ? Meh :/
I have a friend who seriously fears she is going to Hell, even as she approaches adulthood. She's not even all that strongly religious. I agree with Dawkins in that Hell is one of the biggest issues with religion, and I also think that teaching it to children borders on child abuse.
[QUOTE=Kasuga Ayumu;38942259]he's an athiest and he thinks everyone who isn't is stupid. he dislikes a specific group (theists), therefore he is bigoted against that specific group you don't have to hate black people or whatever to be a bigot.[/QUOTE] A bigot hates a certain group. Dawkins does not hate theists, he hates theism.
in any case, there's a fine line between athiesm and antitheism and he crossed it a long time ago. I personally don't care that he doesn't believe in any gods, but shoving his (lack of) beliefs down everyone's throats isn't any better than what Christians do.
[QUOTE=Kasuga Ayumu;38945333]in any case, there's a fine line between athiesm and antitheism and he crossed it a long time ago. I personally don't care that he doesn't believe in any gods, but shoving his (lack of) beliefs down everyone's throats isn't any better than what Christians do.[/QUOTE] He finds irrational ideas in the world and debunks them. I see no problem.
[QUOTE=Kasuga Ayumu;38945333]in any case, there's a fine line between athiesm and antitheism and he crossed it a long time ago. I personally don't care that he doesn't believe in any gods, but shoving his (lack of) beliefs down everyone's throats isn't any better than what Christians do.[/QUOTE] Lack of ideology is not an ideology. It can't be shoved down someone's throat.
Well my mum was brought up Catholic and imo she's a pretty classy lady. Me and my brothers were also brought up Catholic and while I certainly didn't think much of our church services it was in no way traumatising. Same with the other two, though neither of them consider themselves as such and one is almost as bad as Dawkins in terms of his attitude towards religion in general.
He doesn't just debunk them though; there's plenty of great philosophers who debunk religion very effectively and compellingly without managing to piss of people who agree with you in the first place. I don't know why everyone thinks Dawkins is some kind of revolutionary or something; he's not doing anything intellectually compelling or original. He's only garnered so much support in the media because his tone goes down well with people with some personal dispute with religion. He polarizes the debate a great deal more than it needs to be.
[QUOTE=Robbobin;38946901]He doesn't just debunk them though; there's plenty of great philosophers who debunk religion very effectively and compellingly without managing to piss of people who agree with you in the first place. I don't know why everyone thinks Dawkins is some kind of revolutionary or something; he's not doing anything intellectually compelling or original. He's only garnered so much support in the media because his tone goes down well with people with some personal dispute with religion. He polarizes the debate a great deal more than it needs to be.[/QUOTE] Do you really need to be original when your primary tenets are logic and humanism? I don't think how unique his arguments may or may not be really has to come into it when what he says is basically designed to be as understandable and rational as possible. As far as I know, it's less that he's thought of as a revolutionary of atheism, and more that he was one of the few atheists lucky enough to really gain steam and bring the concept of atheism to the theistic man's mind.
While I am an atheist, Richard Dawkins is a total asshole that makes us look bad. He [B]NEVER[/B] seems to know when to draw the line of how far he'll take his views, and because of that, he's sealed the idea into people's minds that all atheists are intolerant jackasses.
[QUOTE=CAPT Opp4;38947615]While I am an atheist, Richard Dawkins is a total asshole that makes us look bad. He [B]NEVER[/B] seems to know when to draw the line of how far he'll take his views, and because of that, he's sealed the idea into people's minds that all atheists are intolerant jackasses.[/QUOTE] I really don't get why Dawkins is seen as an asshole. He has a lot of negative things to say about religion, but he never insults religious people just for being religious (though people may get that impression if they just read article titles).
[QUOTE=Bean Shoot;38947686]I really don't get why Dawkins is seen as an asshole. He has a lot of negative things to say about religion, but he never insults religious people just for being religious (though people may get that impression if they just read article titles).[/QUOTE] He's what most people refer to as a "militant atheist". In place of the acceptance and tolerance that good atheists (as well as good theists) try to show, he bashes religion time and time again, to the point of insensitive nature.
[QUOTE=CAPT Opp4;38947727]He's what most people refer to as a "militant atheist". In place of the acceptance and tolerance that good atheists (as well as good theists) try to show, he bashes religion time and time again, to the point of insensitive nature.[/QUOTE] Can you give some examples of insensitive bashing? Most of the stuff I see about him tend be about things that need bashing in the first place since he focuses on religion interfering with education. I don't see why religion has this special status where saying negative things about it is insensitive. Insulting people for being religious is definitely insensitive, but like i said, Dawkins doesn't do that.
[QUOTE=Bean Shoot;38947794]Can you give some examples of insensitive bashing? Most of the stuff I see about him tend be about things that need bashing in the first place since he focuses on religion interfering with education. I don't see why religion has this special status where saying negative things about it is insensitive. Insulting people for being religious is definitely insensitive, but like i said, Dawkins doesn't do that.[/QUOTE] He has on several occasions spoken about theism being the "Root Of All Evil". While, once again, I am an atheist, I don't agree with his ideas of an America where theism itself is shunned, but rather an America where religion isn't the primary priority.
[QUOTE=CAPT Opp4;38947948]He has on several occasions spoken about theism being the "Root Of All Evil". While, once again, I am an atheist, I don't agree with his ideas of an America where theism itself is shunned, but rather an America where religion isn't the primary priority.[/QUOTE] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Root_of_All_Evil%3F[/url] [quote]Dawkins has said that the title The Root of All Evil? was not his preferred choice, but that Channel 4 had insisted on it to create controversy. The sole concession from the producers on the title was the addition of the question mark. Dawkins has stated that the notion of anything being the root of all evil is ridiculous.[/quote] This is exactly what I'm talking about with people reading titles only.
[QUOTE=CAPT Opp4;38947727]He's what most people refer to as a "militant atheist". In place of the acceptance and tolerance that good atheists (as well as good theists) try to show, he bashes religion time and time again, to the point of insensitive nature.[/QUOTE] Except that in cases like these, the idea of 'acceptance and tolerance' in a debate about what is true or at least 'what is closest to the truth' is preposterous. If it were anything else, the same logic just wouldn't fly. When someone proposes to you an idea that they claim is true, what is the first thing you want to ask? Probably something along the lines of "how do you know that?" or "is there any evidence for that?", and yet somehow the only 'acceptable' course of action when applied to religion is to just leave it alone, despite the fact that it claims to explain [I]quite a lot.[/I] How does that make any sense?
[QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;38937488]It's a telling sign of a weak-ass atheist when someone acts like fundamentalism is the only form of Christianity that exists. Fundamentalism is easy to argue against, so if you're arguing against a Christian, just pretend they think that the world is 6000 years old. Now you can declare that they're undeniably wrong without having to actually think about anything.[/QUOTE] are you fucking inbred or what? if you think that the bible is wrong about a multitude of things and yet you still think the religion based on the bible is real, *YOU'RE A FUCKING IDIOT*. I think categorizing these people as christians is an insult to their superiors who actually believe in the religion and aren't just cowards that can't face mortality. bottom line is, if I tell you 10 things and 8 of them turn out to be false, and then you base your life on the other 2 things I said, you're not intelligent enough to be considered human. this is simple shit, man. wake up. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Flaming" - Megafan))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;38949733]are you fucking inbred or what? if you think that the bible is wrong about a multitude of things and yet you still think the religion based on the bible is real, *YOU'RE A FUCKING IDIOT*. I think categorizing these people as christians is an insult to their superiors who actually believe in the religion and aren't just cowards that can't face mortality. bottom line is, if I tell you 10 things and 8 of them turn out to be false, and then you base your life on the other 2 things I said, you're not intelligent enough to be considered human. this is simple shit, man. wake up. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Flaming" - Megafan))[/highlight][/QUOTE] You are rude.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.