• Justices, 5-4, Tell California to Cut Prisoner Population by more than 30,000
    109 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Lazor;30018569]ummmmmm no question: do you actually know anything?[/QUOTE] Question: have you ever left your house? Don't know if you've ever actually had to deal with someone trying to get money for his habit, but hint: they don't ask nicely after a while. To say a strung out addict isn't dangerous is just plain ignorant.
[QUOTE=Canesfan;30018618] I mean what's so bad about racketeering, DUI, and car theft? Just fine em and "rehabilitate" em, right? There are a couple cases here where prison is extreme, yes, but saying ALL nonviolent crimes should be punished with prison only as a last resort is probably the dumbest idea i've heard in a long time. Prison, unlike the death penalty, is undeniably a deterrent. The day America "realizes this" is the day I leave.[/QUOTE] Most of those offenses don't need more than a year of incarceration and could easily be served in jails. As for drug offenses, rehab facilities. For most of the rest, fines and/or community service are fine.
[QUOTE=Lazor;30018653]hey guess what genius boy we don't live in a world constructed of false dichotomies like the one you just presented. there's another alternative known as REHABILITATION and is far more effective than sticking someone in a fucking jail cell[/QUOTE] Name calling really got your point across there "genius boy." This is where it comes to you having an unfortunate opinion, but to me you respond to crime with PUNISHMENT, alongside rehabilitation, you don't stick em in a hotel room and tell it'll all be alright if they listen to their counselors.
[QUOTE=Canesfan;30018667]Question: have you ever left your house? Don't know if you've ever actually had to deal with someone trying to get money for his habit, but hint: they don't ask nicely after a while. To say a strung out addict isn't dangerous is just plain ignorant.[/QUOTE] to say their just as dangerous as a convicted murdered is borderline retarded
[QUOTE=Canesfan;30018618]I've disagreed with a lot of things you've said, but wow. Last resort?[/QUOTE] yes, as a last resort. there's no need to clog up the system with people who wrote bad checks and did other petty shit like that. [QUOTE=Canesfan;30018618]I mean what's so bad about racketeering, DUI, and car theft?[/QUOTE] there are far better alternatives than simply jailing everyone who commits crimes. the "let's just jail everyone" bullshit attitude is why america has the most inmates in the world, the highest incarceration rate, and a very high recidivism rate. [QUOTE=Canesfan;30018618]Just fine em and "rehabilitate" em, right? There are a couple cases here where prison is extreme, yes, but saying ALL nonviolent crimes should be punished with prison only as a last resort is probably the dumbest idea i've heard in a long time.[/QUOTE] it's not a dumb idea at all. why the fuck should you AUTOMATICALLY lock someone up for over a year for a nonviolent crime. you have to look at the circumstances of the case. [QUOTE=Canesfan;30018618]Prison, unlike the death penalty, is undeniably a deterrent.[/QUOTE] no, not really
[QUOTE=Lazor;30018688]to say their just as dangerous as a convicted murdered is borderline retarded[/QUOTE] Borderline retarded? Quick fact check there buddy and you'd see how borderline retarded it is. Almost 30% of inmates convicted of murder were under the influence of drugs at the time of their offense. [url]http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/factsht/crime/index.html[/url] Yeah obviously they're not dangerous at all.
[QUOTE=Canesfan;30018618]I've disagreed with a lot of things you've said, but wow. Last resort? So lowlives that steal cars, property, etc. or drink and drive putting the lives of EVERYONE around them at risk should just be fined and slapped on the hand? Look at a couple nonviolent crimes- I mean what's so bad about racketeering, DUI, and car theft? Just fine em and "rehabilitate" em, right? Prison, unlike the death penalty, is undeniably a deterrent. The day America "realizes this" is the day I leave.[/QUOTE] I guess just throwing people into jail where they're turned into much harder criminals and are stuck forever with the label of a criminal where life becomes almost impossible to normalize from. Yeah, that's a great deterrent and a great way to get convicts and criminals properly integrated back into society.
[QUOTE=Canesfan;30018667]Question: have you ever left your house? Don't know if you've ever actually had to deal with someone trying to get money for his habit, but hint: they don't ask nicely after a while. To say a strung out addict isn't dangerous is just plain ignorant.[/QUOTE] to say that a drug addict is just as dangerous as a convicted murder is plain ignorant
[QUOTE=Canesfan;30018743]Borderline retarded? Quick fact check there buddy and you'd see how borderline retarded it is. Almost 30% of inmates convicted of murder were under the influence of drugs at the time of their offense. [url]http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/factsht/crime/index.html[/url] Yeah obviously they're not dangerous at all.[/QUOTE] And jail is such a clear and obvious deterrent to these people....
[QUOTE=Canesfan;30018683]Name calling really got your point across there "genius boy." This is where it comes to you having an unfortunate opinion, but to me you respond to crime with PUNISHMENT, alongside rehabilitation, you don't stick em in a hotel room and tell it'll all be alright if they listen to their counselors.[/QUOTE] rehabilitation isn't a god damn hotel room and the justice system isn't about revenge and guess what, rehabilitation is a million times more effective than a god damn prison cell. Norway's justice system is a rehab based one and it's recidivist rate is far lower than the united states
[QUOTE=JDK721;30018727]yes, as a last resort. there's no need to clog up the system with people who wrote bad checks and did other petty shit like that. there are far better alternatives than simply jailing everyone who commits crimes. the "let's just jail everyone" bullshit attitude is why america has the most inmates in the world, the highest incarceration rate, and a very high recidivism rate. it's not a dumb idea at all. why the fuck should you AUTOMATICALLY lock someone up for over a year for a nonviolent crime. you have to look at the circumstances of the case. no, not really[/QUOTE] I can't argue with anything here, it's just difference of opinion. In my opinion it is a deterrent and I agree the circumstances should be examined but i'm not talking about mandatory sentencing here, just jail in general. While some things definitely should be served in other ways, it's just my opinion that anything that endangers others like DUI or damages/takes others property like burglary/grand theft should be served in jail.
[QUOTE=JDK721;30018502]or ANY nonviolent crimes for that matter.[/QUOTE] what about fraud, collusion, burglary, theft or anything else like that? criminal incarceration should be an option for even non violent crimes as the ultimate deterrence from doing wrong.
[QUOTE=Canesfan;30018743]Borderline retarded? Quick fact check there buddy and you'd see how borderline retarded it is. Almost 30% of inmates convicted of murder were under the influence of drugs at the time of their offense. [url]http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/factsht/crime/index.html[/url] Yeah obviously they're not dangerous at all.[/QUOTE] um if they're on drugs on the time then why are they looking for drugs??? also, that number includes alcohol. find me one without it please
[QUOTE=DogGunn;30018793]what about fraud, collusion, burglary, theft or anything else like that? criminal incarceration should be an option for even non violent crimes as the ultimate deterrence from doing wrong.[/QUOTE] How is it in anyway the ultimate deterrent? It's called "Con College" for fucks sakes. You go in, and you're either forced to rub elbows with some very fucked up people or join a gang to survive, when you come out of it, you're a hardened criminal compared to before. Then, you also have to suffer the stigma of that title of being a criminal and the difficulties that brings in getting back to a normal life. Yeah, much better system.
[QUOTE=Canesfan;30018784] In my opinion it is a deterrent [/QUOTE] your opinion is wrong
Why do so many people think rehabilitation for criminals involves sticking them in a "hotel room" Rehabilitation means focusing on preventing future crimes instead of just punishing for past ones. Sometimes this involves drug rehab, sometimes it involves paying restitution to the victim, sometimes it involves incarceration. There's also a focus on giving the criminal something other than crime to turn back to once released. (Vocational training, work placement, so forth) How can anyone think this is a bad idea?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;30018839]How is it in anyway the ultimate deterrent? It's called "Con College" for fucks sakes. You go in, and you're either forced to rub elbows with some very fucked up people or join a gang to survive, when you come out of it, you're a hardened criminal compared to before. Then, you also have to suffer the stigma of that title of being a criminal and the difficulties that brings in getting back to a normal life.[/QUOTE] You just described why it is the ultimate deterrence.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;30018862]You just described why it is the ultimate deterrence.[/QUOTE] No, he just described why it's the ultimate criminal making machine.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;30018862]You just described why it is the ultimate deterrence.[/QUOTE] no uh...he didn't there's really nothing more to say than that. if you think our prison system churning out hardened criminals makes it a good deterrent for crime then you are an A+ certified moron
[QUOTE=Zeke129;30018858]Why do so many people think rehabilitation for criminals involves sticking them in a "hotel room" Rehabilitation means focusing on preventing future crimes instead of just punishing for past ones. Sometimes this involves drug rehab, sometimes it involves paying restitution to the victim, sometimes it involves incarceration. There's also a focus on giving the criminal something other than crime to turn back to once released. (Vocational training, work placement, so forth) How can anyone think this is a bad idea?[/QUOTE] No one says it's a bad idea, but like I said i'm of the school of thought that the most basic action you take against criminals is punishment. While it's unfortunate that our prisons have gotten to the point of the "con college" like described, that's no excuse to take it out of the equation. After that's accomplished, though, rehabilitation is most certainly the future of the criminal justice system and an admirable thing to work towards, as long as you don't eliminate that basic concept.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;30018885]No, he just described why it's the ultimate criminal making machine.[/QUOTE] I don't doubt it's a "criminal making machine", but to suggest that it doesn't act as a deterrence is silly. It's a broken system and needs to be fixed, but even non-violent crimes need the option incarceration.
[QUOTE=Lazor;30018886]no uh...he didn't there's really nothing more to say than that. if you think our prison system churning out hardened criminals makes it a good deterrent for crime then you are an A+ certified moron[/QUOTE] You've yet to contribute anything here except name calling, and it's hurting your agument tbh
[QUOTE=Canesfan;30018912]No one says it's a bad idea, but like I said i'm of the school of thought that the most basic action you take against criminals is punishment.[/QUOTE] So if you're willing to admit that your school of thought doesn't work all that well why don't you change it
[QUOTE=DogGunn;30018862]You just described why it is the ultimate deterrence.[/QUOTE] Yeah because when you come out you're clearly deterred from doing another crime as a last resort because the system's deprived you of any other option yeah that's deterrence all right
[QUOTE=DogGunn;30018923]I don't doubt it's a "criminal making machine", but to suggest that it doesn't act as a deterrence is silly. It's a broken system and needs to be fixed, but even non-violent crimes need the option incarceration.[/QUOTE] If it was an effective deterrence we wouldn't see any recidivism at all
[QUOTE=Lazor;30018886]there's really nothing more to say than that. if you think our prison system churning out hardened criminals makes it a good deterrent for crime then you are an A+ certified moron[/QUOTE] I should've been more selective with my quote - I wasn't referring to the fact that a person who goes in may come out as a more hardened criminal, but rather the fact that the people in there are the deterrence from committing the crime.
[QUOTE=Canesfan;30018925]You've yet to contribute anything here except name calling, and it's hurting your agument tbh[/QUOTE] this post is factually incorrect. my posts contain insults but they are not entirely composed of them
[QUOTE=Zeke129;30018942]If it was an effective deterrence we wouldn't see any recidivism at all[/QUOTE] You mean if it was effective at rehabilitation? Deterrence doesn't affect recidivism.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;30018943]I should've been more selective with my quote - I wasn't referring to the fact that a person who goes in may come out as a more hardened criminal, but rather the fact that the people in there are the deterrence from committing the crime.[/QUOTE] You basically just said that prison is a deterrence because it isn't a deterrence and it's actually full of people who weren't deterred from crime
[QUOTE=DogGunn;30018943]I should've been more selective with my quote - I wasn't referring to the fact that a person who goes in may come out as a more hardened criminal, but rather the fact that the people in there are the deterrence from committing the crime.[/QUOTE] But that deters less crime in the end... How is it a deterrent if it CREATES the people that commit the most crime?
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.