• NSW bill to ban unvaccinated kids from preschools and childcare centres.
    144 replies, posted
[QUOTE=TheDon;40697824]Yes. But the vaccine itself doesn't kill the disease, your body does. The vaccine just allows for your body to be prepared for the chance of infection.[/QUOTE] Well, we're arguing semantics at this point, but the vaccine does kind of kill the disease. If it wasn't for the vaccine, the disease wouldn't die out. Point we both seem to have is, vaccines helps diseases go extinct; if you don't vaccinate everyone, the disease won't go extinct because it'll still have breeding-ground.
[QUOTE=TheDon;40697799]But they don't make you immune. They make your immune system aware of the potential threat so that it can be fought off before it becomes a legitimate threat to your health. And since it allows your body to fight it off before it becomes anything major it wont be able to spread. So both of us are correct, just in different ways.[/QUOTE] What's your definition of immune? because I think "stops your from catching the disease" is a pretty good fit.
[QUOTE=TheDecryptor;40697897]What's your definition of immune? because I think "stops your from catching the disease" is a pretty good fit.[/QUOTE] Vaccines don't stop you from catching the disease, it stops you from dying from it.
So wait. Everyone in this thread gets flu shots every year? Never had a flu shot in my life. And no my parents aren't idiots. I've never had the flu. My brother had it once and was immediately taken to the doctors where they said he was fine. I didn't think it was such a big issue.
[QUOTE=darcy010;40697921]So wait. Everyone in this thread gets flu shots every year? Never had a flu shot in my life. And no my parents aren't idiots. I've never had the flu. My brother had it once and was immediately taken to the doctors where they said he was fine. I didn't think it was such a big issue.[/QUOTE] We're talking about the shots kids get in the first 10 or so years after they're born. Seasonal flu vaccinating is really not the issue, almost no one takes those as the disease isn't all that deadly usually.
[QUOTE=darcy010;40697921]So wait. Everyone in this thread gets flu shots every year? Never had a flu shot in my life. And no my parents aren't idiots. I've never had the flu. My brother had it once and was immediately taken to the doctors where they said he was fine. I didn't think it was such a big issue.[/QUOTE] Flu strains change from year to year and even during the year. And there are multiple strains going around at the same time so it is so far impossible to vaccinate against all possible cases of flu. The shots contain virus parts from the strains most likely to spread around that year. Since it is not a total immunity flu shots are not very useful in providing herd immunity. Getting a flu shot might be a good idea, but unless you are immunosuppressed or very weak (age extremes, additional illnesses etc...) or a healthcare worker a flu shot is not as necessary as the childhood vaccines.
[QUOTE=Cruma;40696937]Maybe I'm confused but, if everyone is vaccinated, why would an unvaccinated person be an issue? Isn't the vaccination supposed to defend you to a degree or what?[/QUOTE] With the measles outbreak among un-vaccinated kids in Wales this year, one of the worries was that kids who had been vaccinated but had weak immune systems due to leukemia or something were being put at risk. [editline]19th May 2013[/editline] Oops didn't see there were 3 pages.
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;40697900]Vaccines don't stop you from catching the disease, it stops you from dying from it.[/QUOTE] Again, semantics, but I think it prevents the disease from even getting a foothold in your body, so you don't really get sick at all with diseases you're vaccinated against; they get curbstomped at the door. So you [I]do[/I] technically get the disease, yes, but you don't get sick from it. It basically goes into your body, goes "Hey guys, what's going on in here?", then gets instabanned by your white bloodcells or whatever.
[QUOTE=Riller;40698074]Again, semantics, but I think it prevents the disease from even getting a foothold in your body, so you don't really get sick at all with diseases you're vaccinated against; they get curbstomped at the door. So you [I]do[/I] technically get the disease, yes, but you don't get sick from it. It basically goes into your body, goes "Hey guys, what's going on in here?", then gets instabanned by your white bloodcells or whatever.[/QUOTE] No it's not semantics because not getting sick or not getting terribly sick from the disease doesn't mean you don't carry the disease and could potentially spread it. Some people in this thread had trouble understanding this so it is important to make this distinction. Immunity does not mean the disease bounces off your skin or something like that.
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;40698175]No it's not semantics because not getting sick or not getting terribly sick from the disease doesn't mean you don't carry the disease and could potentially spread it. Some people in this thread had trouble understanding this so it is important to make this distinction. Immunity does not mean the disease bounces off your skin or something like that.[/QUOTE] Ah, true, true. Of course, if everyone would just get the vaccination, we could all go get the disease and have a big ol' disease-carrier-party and drink infected punch and grind our infected butts together; and all that'd happen would be a hangover the day after. So everyone, get god damn vaccinated, this party's gonna be-... [I]Sick.[/I]
[QUOTE=TheDon;40697824]Yes. But the vaccine itself doesn't kill the disease, your body does. The vaccine just allows for your body to be prepared for the chance of infection.[/QUOTE] I think he is referring to the eradication of the smallpox
It is depressing to think that while humanity has found an ingenious way of eradicating horrible diseases that main and kill, which we can all basically agree is a good thing, there are still those who refuse such treatment for them, and more criminally, [B]their children[/B]. Why, oh why, are people so ignorant.
[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;40697480]fyi there's a difference between attacking a viewpoint and defending the opposing viewpoint[/QUOTE] So you're being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian?
[QUOTE=Cakebatyr;40698618]So you're being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian?[/QUOTE] Considering all the studies that claimed vaccines causes mental disabilities were debunked, I call trolling.
[QUOTE=Van-man;40698753]Considering all the studies that claimed vaccines causes mental disabilities were debunked, I call trolling.[/QUOTE] Or maybe the fact that you just can't force everything upon people, putting people in jail for not vaccinating their children is a little bit tyrannic don't you think?
[QUOTE=kaven;40698776]Or maybe the fact that you just can't force everything upon people, putting people in jail for not vaccinating their children is a little bit tyrannic don't you think?[/QUOTE] Maybe not jail time for a first time offence, but lack of vaccination is a serious public health problem that puts anyone refusing it or, more importantly, unable to get vaccinated because of health issues or immunocompromised at risk. People get jail time for risking the health of themselves and others, why shouldn't they get jail time for risking the health of their child and other people?
[QUOTE=kaven;40698776]Or maybe the fact that you just can't force everything upon people, putting people in jail for not vaccinating their children is a little bit tyrannic don't you think?[/QUOTE] Considering they don't even put their own children's health at great risk, but possibly also others that [B]COULDN'T[/B] for various reasons be vaccinated, I'd honestly say that parents that flat-out refuse to have their children vaccinated for no good reason other than [I]"BUT AUTISM!!"[/I] should have them taken away and placed in foster care. Personal beliefs and/or religion [I]should [B]not[/B][/I] be valued higher than your child's overall well being. That's the essence of parental responsibility after all.
As someone who went through a great deal of bullshit thanks to programs like this in the latter years, I'm on a fence. I agree that kids need to get vaccines, but a very, very fucking fine line is drawn from the point you start cutting their education.
[QUOTE=Rents;40698841]Maybe not jail time for a first time offence, but lack of vaccination is a serious public health problem that puts anyone refusing it or, more importantly, unable to get vaccinated because of health issues or immunocompromised at risk. People get jail time for risking the health of themselves and others, why shouldn't they get jail time for risking the health of their child and other people?[/QUOTE] While I agree that the health of children should outweigh personal opinions, punishment is in my opinion not the right way to deal with it. Fines or preferably a tax that helps to pay for vaccinations would be better. Jailtime should be reserved to when someone actually suffers because of it. I'm on the fence for punishments for risking other peoples safety, as the action has not resulted in anyone actually suffering. I suppose though that it is necessary in for the same reasons as attempted murder is a crime.
Good. It's basically the same concept as when you need to put your dogs in a kennel for a few nights if you're going away (I've got 4 dogs so it'd be difficult for a relative to look after them all), - they refuse to accept dogs if they haven't been vaccinated against kennel cough and such. It just makes sense, this is a great idea
[QUOTE=kaven;40698927]While I agree that the health of children should outweigh personal opinions, punishment is in my opinion not the right way to deal with it. Fines or preferably a tax that helps to pay for vaccinations would be better. Jailtime should be reserved to when someone actually suffers because of it. I'm on the fence for punishments for risking other peoples safety, as the action has not resulted in anyone actually suffering. I suppose though that it is necessary in for the same reasons as attempted murder is a crime.[/QUOTE] Or driving without a drivers license. You're a danger to public health.
My mom still thinks vaccines cause people to become stupid and be autistic. Goddammit Mom. Which is why I don't have a lot of my vaccinations right now, which I'm trying to get.
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;40699431]Or driving without a drivers license. You're a danger to public health.[/QUOTE] Fair enough.
maybe its just the tinfoiler in me but, something about [B]requiring[/B] your children to have these vaccinations is not quite right to me
[QUOTE=More Ragtime;40699689]maybe its just the tinfoiler in me but, something about [B]requiring[/B] your children to have these vaccinations is not quite right to me[/QUOTE] And that's why such diseases still exist in the US.
I'm fine with this. Debilitating or deadly illness, or the statistically insignificant chance of side effects from a vaccine. It's a fucking no-brainer, assholes, get your kids their shots.
[QUOTE=More Ragtime;40699689]maybe its just the tinfoiler in me but, something about [B]requiring[/B] your children to have these vaccinations is not quite right to me[/QUOTE] Well... there is that. But there's also the health of others possibly depending on your/who ever it is misinformed opinion. I wouldn't want to get some resistant strain of measles because Mr and Mrs EverythingNaturalIsGood down the road didn't vaccinate their child in the name of "free choice".
Not vaccinating your children is stupid. I think everybody here agrees on this for the most part. Unvaccinated children put everybody else at risk. This bill is fair.
[QUOTE=Zeneros;40696969]"But i dont want my kid to have autism!!!!!"[/QUOTE] Which is amusing and somewhat tragic, because one of the few known causes of autism is congenital rubella syndrome, which can be prevented.... with a vaccine. It's rather vicious.
I've never, ever, had a Flu vaccine. I haven't caught it in my 16 years so far. I was supposed to get H1N1 because I didn't rush out to get that vaccine. I didn't get that. Some people are better at fighting stuff like that I guess, if they refuse you for not getting a Flu vaccine, I might see an issue. But for stuff like Polio, yeah don't let 'em in.
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