Senator Al Franken Kissed and Groped Me Without My Consent, And There’s Nothing Funny About It
120 replies, posted
[QUOTE=patq911;52896365]his press office response:
[media]https://twitter.com/kleinstar/status/931188974793711616[/media][/QUOTE]
I always bothers me when people say "I shouldn't have done it"
But you did shut up and fuck off
[QUOTE=BrickInHead;52896443]It most certainly is not. Read the full account of what happened. Honestly it should be in the OP because it's context that shifts the photo from "oh haha what a goof he's making a joke, don't be so sensitive!" to "oh he's straight up unabashedly harrassing this woman."[/QUOTE]
thanks for the clarification, that's really way worse than what it seems
[QUOTE=Potus;52896552][media]https://twitter.com/seungminkim/status/931199345600466947[/media][/QUOTE]
Now he cares about ethics
[QUOTE=Potus;52896552][media]https://twitter.com/seungminkim/status/931199345600466947[/media][/QUOTE]
It's very telling that McConnell does this so fast compared to how long his condemnation of Moore took.
[QUOTE=AnnieOakley;52896388]It's still nonconsensual groping regardless of what one's wearing.[/QUOTE]
Doesn't look like he's actually touching her in the photo tho' - the context seems worse.
[QUOTE=AnnieOakley;52896388]It's still non consensual groping regardless of what one's wearing.[/QUOTE]
it doesn't even look like he's touching her though so is it even really groping or just sexual harassment
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;52896634]It's very telling that McConnell does this so fast compared to how long his condemnation of Moore took.[/QUOTE]
because moore's accusations happened decades ago, weren't reported at the time, only resurfaced right before his election, and had no evidence other than hearsay?
I mean, say what you want about the Moore shit, this woman reported it immediately, gave a detailed account, and had a picture of him groping her, that's more evidence then I've seen than most other rape / whatever accusations
[QUOTE=remnar;52896691]because moore's accusations happened decades ago, weren't reported at the time, only resurfaced right before his election, and had no evidence other than hearsay?
I mean, say what you want about the Moore shit, this woman reported it immediately, gave a detailed account, and had a picture of him groping her, that's more evidence then I've seen than most other rape / whatever accusations[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure "clear evidence of close association with said teenagers" through yearbook signings which get pretty creepy etc counts as "Hearsay"
[QUOTE=Cone;52896497]seeking out political power i understand, but what compels an abuser like this to also be a competent and likeable representative? some twisted desire to be loved that just happened to work out in his constituents' favor? an inscrutable sense of responsibility?
it's like someone only half-explained to him what makes a decent human being[/QUOTE]
I think you're making an unfair separation between abusers and 'normal' people. Obviously many abusers really are psychopaths and the like but I don't think we should act like all abusers are hidden psychopaths waiting to show their real colors. Many acts of abuse happen because we live in a culture that implicitly or even explicitly supports attitudes and beliefs that allow otherwise normal people to abuse others without recognizing themselves as morally repugnant. Franken and countless others probably don't think of themselves as 'abusers', but that doesn't mean what they're doing isn't abuse; it also doesn't mean they are inconceivable monsters either. They ARE otherwise 'normal' people, but we live in a society where abuse is rather normal. The more we recognize how 'regular' abuse is, the better we'll become at eradicating the behaviors that support it.
[QUOTE=Craigewan;52896696]I'm not sure "clear evidence of close association with said teenagers" through yearbook signings which get pretty creepy etc counts as "Hearsay"[/QUOTE]
That came out later, and McConnell did condemn him.
[QUOTE=remnar;52896691]because moore's accusations happened decades ago, weren't reported at the time, only resurfaced right before his election, and had no evidence other than hearsay?
I mean, say what you want about the Moore shit, this woman reported it immediately, gave a detailed account, and had a picture of him groping her, that's more evidence then I've seen than most other rape / whatever accusations[/QUOTE]
i doubt it has anything to do with mcconnell's integrity or care for evidence. he's quick about it to save face for the republican party, which is in heavy damage control mode after electing a president who brags about sexual assault, and now this moore scandal. the democrats will want to save face too, and this statement lets mcconnell tout whatever measures they would've already taken as victories.
[QUOTE=Talvy;52896675]Doesn't look like he's actually touching her in the photo tho' - the context seems worse.[/QUOTE]
actually if you look closely it's clear that the ring finger of his left hand is touching the vest.
[QUOTE=luverofJ!93;52896719]I think you're making an unfair separation between abusers and 'normal' people. Obviously many abusers really are psychopaths and the like but I don't think we should act like all abusers are hidden psychopaths waiting to show their real colors. Many acts of abuse happen because we live in a culture that implicitly or even explicitly supports attitudes and beliefs that allow otherwise normal people to abuse others without recognizing themselves as morally repugnant. Franken and countless others probably don't think of themselves as 'abusers', but that doesn't mean what they're doing isn't abuse; it also doesn't mean they are inconceivable monsters either. They ARE otherwise 'normal' people, but we live in a society where abuse is rather normal. The more we recognize how 'regular' abuse is, the better we'll become at eradicating the behaviors that support it.[/QUOTE]
i guess i just don't really get how a representative can understand people's best interests, and yet so thoughtlessly overstep his power. i mean i'm sure Franken would recognize an infringement of his constituents' personal rights if he saw one, and yet here we are.
[quote]“The first thing I want to do is apologize: to Leeann, to everyone else who was part of that tour, to everyone who has worked for me, to everyone I represent, and to everyone who counts on me to be an ally and supporter and champion of women. There’s more I want to say, but the first and most important thing_and if it’s the only thing you care to hear, that’s fine_is: I’m sorry.
“I respect women. I don’t respect men who don’t. And the fact that my own actions have given people a good reason to doubt that makes me feel ashamed.
“But I want to say something else, too. Over the last few months, all of us_including and especially men who respect women_have been forced to take a good, hard look at our own actions and think (perhaps, shamefully, for the first time) about how those actions have affected women.
“For instance, that picture. I don’t know what was in my head when I took that picture, and it doesn’t matter. There’s no excuse. I look at it now and I feel disgusted with myself. It isn’t funny. It’s completely inappropriate. It’s obvious how Leeann would feel violated by that picture. And, what’s more, I can see how millions of other women would feel violated by it_women who have had similar experiences in their own lives, women who fear having those experiences, women who look up to me, women who have counted on me.
“Coming from the world of comedy, I’ve told and written a lot of jokes that I once thought were funny but later came to realize were just plain offensive. But the intentions behind my actions aren’t the point at all. It’s the impact these jokes had on others that matters. And I’m sorry it’s taken me so long to come to terms with that.
“While I don’t remember the rehearsal for the skit as Leeann does, I understand why we need to listen to and believe women’s experiences.
“I am asking that an ethics investigation be undertaken, and I will gladly cooperate.
“And the truth is, what people think of me in light of this is far less important than what people think of women who continue to come forward to tell their stories. They deserve to be heard, and believed. And they deserve to know that I am their ally and supporter. I have let them down and am committed to making it up to them.”[/quote]
[url]https://apnews.com/3adcb145c40341c384208dcc036d2429[/url]
Well, if there ever was a proper way to handle assault allegations in american politics, I'd say calling for your own ethics investigation instead of declaring it a witch hunt isnt bad...
That statement seems contradictory:
- Did it happen or didn't it? He says he doesn't remember it like that, but also that we need to "believe women." So... did he forcefully kiss her or not?
- He is now saying that he has no excuse, that it was disgusting... yet his initial reaction was to say that it was meant to be funny. So which is it? Was it a joke taken the wrong way or was it a disgusting act of sexual harassment?
[QUOTE=sgman91;52896826]That statement seems contradictory:
- Did it happen or didn't it? He says he doesn't remember it like that, but also that we need to "believe women." So... did he forcefully kiss her or not?
- He is now saying that he has no excuse, that it was disgusting... yet his initial reaction was to say that it was meant to be funny. So which is it? Was it a joke taken the wrong way or was it a disgusting act of sexual harassment?[/QUOTE]
I agree with your first bit, he's of all over the place with that. The answer to the second bit is that it's both.
[QUOTE=sgman91;52896826]- He is now saying that he has no excuse, that it was disgusting... yet his initial reaction was to say that it was meant to be funny. So which is it? Was it a joke taken the wrong way or was it a disgusting act of sexual harassment?[/QUOTE]
I think it can be both
[QUOTE=sgman91;52896826]- He is now saying that he has no excuse, that it was disgusting... yet his initial reaction was to say that it was meant to be funny. So which is it? Was it a joke taken the wrong way or was it a disgusting act of sexual harassment?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Coming from the world of comedy, I’ve told and written a lot of jokes that I once thought were funny but later came to realize were just plain offensive. But the intentions behind my actions aren’t the point at all. It’s the impact these jokes had on others that matters. And I’m sorry it’s taken me so long to come to terms with that.[/QUOTE]
He's saying that at the time it was supposed to be funny, but he came to realize that it was actually disgusting and inappropriate and is ashamed of it.
[QUOTE=sgman91;52896826]That statement seems contradictory:
- Did it happen or didn't it? He says he doesn't remember it like that, but also that we need to "believe women." So... did he forcefully kiss her or not?
- He is now saying that he has no excuse, that it was disgusting... yet his initial reaction was to say that it was meant to be funny. So which is it? Was it a joke taken the wrong way or was it a disgusting act of sexual harassment?[/QUOTE]
I think Franken's portraying this as if he intended it to be a joke, and didn't realize he was making her uncomfortable and harassing her. The "rehearsal" thing is predatory as all hell and creepy, so it's not a strong argument to make.
It's very possible for someone to sexually harass someone and make them uncomfortable through attempts at humor, though. Try making some off-color gangbang rape jokes when you're in a room with 10 men a single woman. Sure, you were just joking, but your lack of social awareness also made her feel incredibly unsafe sexually. I don't really buy that Franken was just making some bad attempts at jokes, because the kiss-rehearsal thing is like definitively predatory and can't be construed as a joke. But it's a thing that can definitely happen.
[QUOTE=sgman91;52896826]That statement seems contradictory:
- Did it happen or didn't it? He says he doesn't remember it like that, but also that we need to "believe women." So... did he forcefully kiss her or not?
- He is now saying that he has no excuse, that it was disgusting... yet his initial reaction was to say that it was meant to be funny. So which is it? Was it a joke taken the wrong way or was it a disgusting act of sexual harassment?[/QUOTE]
It happened. I mean, there's photo evidence. What he probably means that while he might not be sure it happened that exact way, it's not that important. What matters is that he needs to take it seriously, as he's shown to do now.
As for the second bit, hindsight most likely. He went into it with the intent of being funny but looking back, he realizes that it's awful.
[QUOTE=psychofox67;52896554]I always bothers me when people say "I shouldn't have done it"
But you did shut up and fuck off[/QUOTE]
I don't really get what else you expect them to say, half of apologizing for doing something wrong is admitting you did it and that you understand why it was wrong and how it affected other people (along with making steps not to do it again). Do you want him to double down and say "yeah I did it and I'd do it again too"?
Clearly it'd be better if it just never happened in the first place, but you can't change the past with current actions
Said accuser has now stated that she doesn't want an investigation into this and 'accepts his apology'.
Doesn't feel right to me. Also, Roger Stone knew at 1 AM today this story was going out before anyone had caught wind of it which further muddies these waters.
Source:
[media]https://twitter.com/stonezonetweets/status/931044605684080642[/media]
[QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;52897068]Said accuser has now stated that she doesn't want an investigation into this and 'accepts his apology'.
Doesn't feel right to me. Also, Roger Stone knew at 1 AM today this story was going out before anyone had caught wind of it which further muddies these waters.
Source:
[media]https://twitter.com/stonezonetweets/status/931044605684080642[/media][/QUOTE]
I have to wonder what there is to investigate, he basically admitted to it.
Something tells me the republicans are going to dumb all the credible dirt they have in the next week, and then start throwing uncredible allegations afterwards to ride on the outrage.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;52897170]I have to wonder what there is to investigate, he basically admitted to it.[/QUOTE]
The veracity of her claims. Not only can an investigation convict - it can also prove innocence and put a spotlight on trumped-up statements.
[QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;52897230]The veracity of her claims. Not only can an investigation convict - it can also prove innocence and put a spotlight on trumped-up statements.[/QUOTE]
I mean, Franklin already said we should believe her and that what he did was "disgusting."
[QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;52897068]Said accuser has now stated that she doesn't want an investigation into this and 'accepts his apology'.
Doesn't feel right to me. Also, Roger Stone knew at 1 AM today this story was going out before anyone had caught wind of it which further muddies these waters.
Source:
[media]https://twitter.com/stonezonetweets/status/931044605684080642[/media][/QUOTE]
The accuser is a regular on Sean Hannity lol, it's entirely a hit job to draw attention away from Roy Moore's pedophilia. The kiss is the only part of this I have an issue with, assuming it happened like she said it happened. The photo is in bad taste for a senator but he wasn't a senator at the time and it is in no stretch of the imagination him "groping" her.
[QUOTE=sgman91;52897251]I mean, Franklin already said we should believe her and that what he did was "disgusting."[/QUOTE]
Believe that those events happened, yeah, not that they happened as she portrayed them. Franklin stated he didn't recall any specifics - that's part of why he wants this investigation: to suss out the truth of the matter and prove this was an isolated incident.
...Oh these are serious. I couldn't tell because of the fucking image which on its own looks like its entirely set up.
No I'm not saying it is, just...it looks like something me and my friends would do.
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