Japanese employee commit suicide after working 105 hours of overtime in 1 month
84 replies, posted
[QUOTE=glitchvid;51225869]It is ridiculously in debt though, it has a 230% debt-to-GDP ratio†, the highest of any country in the world (Yes, including Zimbabwe).
† [URL="https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2186rank.html"]Public debt-to-GDP ratio[/URL].[/QUOTE]
it is also debt owned by japanese citizens, which is makes it less terrible
[editline]19th October 2016[/editline]
or i guess we could ask trump to fix our debt
[QUOTE=Matthew0505;51225789]No it won't, death by overworking happens so often there they made a word for it.[/QUOTE]
i was curious and looked up the actual word and they basically put the characters for "overworking" (過労) and "death" (死) together to get the word
not that this makes it any less terrible or anything
[QUOTE=glitchvid;51225869]It is ridiculously in debt though, it has a 230% debt-to-GDP ratio†, the highest of any country in the world (Yes, including Zimbabwe).
† [URL="https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2186rank.html"]Public debt-to-GDP ratio[/URL].[/QUOTE]
That's related to the real estate bubble burst which Japan suffered from during the 80s. Practically the same thing which happened in the US a decade ago. Ever since then Japanese banks basically follow a zero interest policy. Followed by that is the typical yadda, yadda, yadda from the west about how that policy is supposedly harmful to the economy and other bullshit.
Used to do some 240 hours per month a couple years back. 10 hour shifts where the norm, 14 hours where common. 17 hours you started to question reality.
It seems everywhere you look people ask for more personnel but the higher ups say "no we can't afford it!" And lays off additional people.
The issue i believe is missused revenue. The money doesn't go where it needs to go. Atleast in my case that is.
[QUOTE=GreenLeaf;51226050]17 hours[/QUOTE]
Don't you just pass out, wake up and resume work on a hungry stomach at that point?
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51225828]the problem with working overtime is you do less work the more you work anyways
you get fatigued and less effective as a worker - it's one of the reasons why despite having some of the longest working hours around, the Japanese economy and society has been in a slow decline since the 90s[/QUOTE]
Exactly, working rigid, long hours is very inefficient. Unfortunately emotional appeals to hard work, work ethics and laziness still work.
I think that in a perfect, utopian world, most people would be able to work a completely flexible schedule, provided they turn in a certain amount of work every week/month. This could also suit people who prefer to work in short bursts.
Jesus christ I'm glad we got laws against this shit. Nobody works above 38 hours a week without being paid overtime, no shifts can be closer than 8 hours (if they are, you stay at home until the 8 hours have passed but get paid for the time anyways), and any hour over 65 hours would be straight out illegal.
[QUOTE=wraithcat;51225875]Complicated, with the majority of Japan's debt being in domestic bonds as far as I remember, so it's in a better position. As there's pretty low interest on those.[/QUOTE]
the downside is that it's not doing anything good
most of japans money ends up slowing to a crawl in pensions, cautious banks and companies, and in peoples mattresses because nobody is wanting to spend any money
in japans case it's still bad because this money isn't even doing anything
[QUOTE=Drury;51226127]Don't you just pass out, wake up and resume work on a hungry stomach at that point?[/QUOTE]
And no shower and other hygiene stuff
[QUOTE=rndgenerator;51225832]But their GDP is lower than US despite having a work ethic that makes them work tons of overtime while US is chill for the most part. [/QUOTE]
Considering the US is known for having a fast-paced workaholic culture, it speaks volumes if Japan's work culture makes the US seem chill by comparison. If our European counterparts are any indication, we could stand to actually slow down quite a bit.
Not Japan, but there's a similar situation in Korea. The employees who put in the most hours look the most dedicated to management. However, korea is one of the least productive OECD countries, because even though employees are staying late, they're not doing any work.
A lot of Americans will work for these companies and get weird looks when they go home at 5pm after doing a full days work
[QUOTE=Drury;51226127]Don't you just pass out, wake up and resume work on a hungry stomach at that point?[/QUOTE]
Thankfully those days where usually followed up by atleast one day off.
Some rare instances had me do 10 hour shifts for 6 days straight and that was just the worst
My biggest fear is that one day I will be close to dying of old age and I realized I wasted my youth overworking like I am now and not doing anything other than working. Just to live I have to work alot just to pay for the "freedom" of being able to work all the time and having a bed to rest in between.
It's even worse for the chinese. Some areas children work for little pay that allow them to only be able to buy some bread and rice and to continue living in extreme proverty. Some factories even have "suicide nets" because workers would jump out the window to escape this cycle. All so we can all enjoy those cheap smartphone parts and overpriced sneakers.
Wage slavery is real. If your only option is death by starvation or working forever to stay poor forever then thats slavery. Fuck that shit
[QUOTE=phaedon;51226128]Exactly, working rigid, long hours is very inefficient. Unfortunately emotional appeals to hard work, work ethics and laziness still work.
I think that in a perfect, utopian world, most people would be able to work a completely flexible schedule, provided they turn in a certain amount of work every week/month. This could also suit people who prefer to work in short bursts.[/QUOTE]
We don't need to live in an perfect utopian world to live like this. We just allowed corperations and governments to abuse us. The 40 hour work week was made to lower the amount of hours people have to work to live, the 40 hour work week was meant to be lowered over time. The same with minimium wage was ALWAYS rising in the US along companies's profit until it stagnated in the 90s while profit continues to skyrocket.
You hear people, even on this forums, mocking fastfood workers for wanting $10-15 hour wage. Whining about how they don't get paid as much while working harder jobs. Not even realizing both they and fast food workers are supposed to get paid that much more. EMTs crying about fastfood workers trying to make $13 a hour while they get paid only $15. Not realizing that it's their bosses fault. Getting paid only $15 when you work long ass hours and SAVING PEOPLE LIVES while their hostipal make millions in profit.
But people don't fight for better treatment anymore, they just shrug and say shit like "well its not a real job" or "they shouldve went into debt for a diploma like i did" not knowing they are shitting on each other.
[QUOTE=catbarf;51226210]Considering the US is known for having a fast-paced workaholic culture, it speaks volumes if Japan's work culture makes the US seem chill by comparison. If our European counterparts are any indication, we could stand to actually slow down quite a bit.[/QUOTE]
France's laws labour laws are pretty fucking fantastic. Wouldn't mind having it here. Especially because working less still makes you more efficient, and arguably we'd spend more money with all of our free time. IIRC 15 hours weekly is actually considered the best when it comes to efficiency, although cutting it that low would have some bad side effects if done now due to the whole capitalism thing. Automation might bring us that at least if we don't manage to keep inventing useless jobs like we have in the past.
my wife complains about over working all the time. she works mon-sat, hardly any time off. the worst part is her boss is American so I know he's taking advantage of the fact they're in Japan.
[QUOTE=Chickens!;51225677]Makes me think of the video of the Ramen restaurant owner posted here a while back. When are you supposed to do any actual living when you work that much?[/QUOTE]
I'm playing devils advocate but when it comes to restaurants, this is not uncommon in almost all the world. My brother opened a ramen restaurant here in Sweden and it was not like he could do 6-8 hours a day and call it quits. During opening weeks he was working 14-hour shifts daily, with only a day off once every few weeks. And shifts of at least 12 hours are common in restaurant business, I was just using my brother as an example. I've worked 13 hours as a dishwasher, and I'm very happy I was just a temp guy, because I could not take that for a long time.
[QUOTE=G-Strogg;51226438]I'm playing devils advocate but when it comes to restaurants, this is not uncommon in almost all the world. My brother opened a ramen restaurant here in Sweden and it was not like he could do 6-8 hours a day and call it quits. During opening weeks he was working 14-hour shifts daily, with only a day off once every few weeks. And shifts of at least 12 hours are common in restaurant business, I was just using my brother as an example. I've worked 13 hours as a dishwasher, and I'm very happy I was just a temp guy, because I could not take that for a long time.[/QUOTE]
Yeah basically. I work in a family owned restaurant and we get here at 8 and get out at 6-6:30 everyday. Our only days off are Christmas tbh
[QUOTE=Ignhelper;51225714]Foreigners always like to think of Japan as heaven that's because they only travelled as tourists, work as english teachers with a shitload of freetime (cause they only teach in English) or in a foreign company with international work standards.[/QUOTE]
That's why if you want to work in Japan, you work in a foreign company with foreign work culture.
[QUOTE=KnightLight;51225679]I've heard that the main reason why Japan's birthrates are so low and depression rates are so high is mostly because of the harsh working hours-most people just don't have the time to form relationships or do anything else besides work. Everybody works 15-hour workdays and such. This is just another casualty in Japanese work ethic. If Japan learned to unclench and relax a bit, things would most likely be a lot better.
(And yes, I know, haha, people tend to blame anime and such for the low birthrates, and while that might be true for a minority of the population, the wide majority is really because of the Japanese work ethic.)[/QUOTE]
Uhh... no? While working hours is a very small part of it, it is far from the reason of low birth rates. There are several underlying factors that are causing the low birth rates. 1. Its expensive, and people would rather make more money than have kids. 2. A big part is the common social thought for women, is that once you have kids, your career as a woman is over. So because of that, women choose their careers over having kids. As a result, you have a new area of industry that tries to fill that need for intimacy with services to tide people over rather than just get a date, get married, or have kids.
[QUOTE=Garlickeh;51225825]1. its not like every company does this
2. things are already changing for the better[/QUOTE]
Yeah, not all of them, just a whole goddamn quarter of them according to the article. It doesn't need to be every company for it to be a severe problem.
I also doubt the small betterments they make every now and then is going to save them before their dwindling youth workforce and population catches up to them.
here's a thought, if you need to work a single employee so much that they die, how about you hire 2 employees instead so they can both have a life?
but that would mean creating jobs with lower productivity i suppose so thats not a good idea
[QUOTE=InstantDeath;51226738]Uhh... no? While working hours is a very small part of it, it is far from the reason of low birth rates. There are several underlying factors that are causing the low birth rates. 1. Its expensive, and people would rather make more money than have kids. 2. A big part is the common social thought for women, is that once you have kids, your career as a woman is over. So because of that, women choose their careers over having kids. As a result, you have a new area of industry that tries to fill that need for intimacy with services to tide people over rather than just get a date, get married, or have kids.[/QUOTE]
In addition to that, kids also just aren't even necessary anymore for people personally. You used to need kids to take care of you in your old age and so you'd have more hands to contribute to the family (like working,) and you also needed to make lots of them because they wouldn't stop dying. Those don't really apply as much anymore.
[QUOTE=Fourier;51226194]And no shower and other hygiene stuff[/QUOTE]
Eh, we worked from 11am to 2am, still had time for lots of stuff.. except sleep
Working this much isn't uncommon in the US in the construction industry. The guys here are working 6 12's, which equates to about 128 hours of overtime a month, although they are starting to get burnt out. And by the way, these are union guys, not private sector. The union just rubber stamped the OK for 6 12's without asking the workers.
[QUOTE=ChicagoMobster;51226458]Yeah basically. I work in a family owned restaurant and we get here at 8 and get out at 6-6:30 everyday. Our only days off are Christmas tbh[/QUOTE]
And in countries like mine and Hong Kong where its so international that christmas and public holidays are seen as THE MONEY MAKERS, its even worse. Sure you get paid even more on Xmas but holy shit the people just don't stop coming
[QUOTE=G-Strogg;51226438]I'm playing devils advocate but when it comes to restaurants, this is not uncommon in almost all the world. My brother opened a ramen restaurant here in Sweden and it was not like he could do 6-8 hours a day and call it quits. During opening weeks he was working 14-hour shifts daily, with only a day off once every few weeks. And shifts of at least 12 hours are common in restaurant business, I was just using my brother as an example. I've worked 13 hours as a dishwasher, and I'm very happy I was just a temp guy, because I could not take that for a long time.[/QUOTE]
In the case of the guy Chickens! was talking about, he actually did it because he loved the work, and would rather do that than a 9-5 desk job. I'm actually kind of envious, because I'd love to have a job where I look forward to coming in every day, and want to work overtime for the sake of being there longer. The old saying really is true, if you love your job you'll never work a day in your life.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51226193]the downside is that it's not doing anything good
most of japans money ends up slowing to a crawl in pensions, cautious banks and companies, and in peoples mattresses because nobody is wanting to spend any money
in japans case it's still bad because this money isn't even doing anything[/QUOTE]
It's still in way better shape than America.
[QUOTE=space1;51227683]It's still in way better shape than America.[/QUOTE]
How?
[QUOTE=space1;51227683]It's still in way better shape than America.[/QUOTE]
americas population isn't going to drop by 20% in the next 30 years though
japan has a serious demographic crisis which is rippling down through its economy and society. america is avoiding that and has a much more secure longer term future
the ballooning debt, shrinking workforce, the cost of pensions, few children, strained infrastructure, and declining tax revenues are serious problems for japan
Shit like this makes me question why I should go through the effort of trying to learn Japanese anymore. Even though I'm in a program that will give me a dual degree in Comp Sci and Japanese, along with six months of a paid internship in Japan, I'm starting to think it's just not worth it.
Why make the effort to live in and work in a country with that kinda work ethic, and where you're less likely to find a job because you're not Japanese? I knew from the start that the process of living there wouldn't be easy (way too many people I knew are complete stereotypes of the naive "I'll live in Japan because I love anime/manga I'll be [I]fiiiiine[/I]" kinda folks), but man...it just looks more and more bleak.
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