• Trenton, NJ Teen Curfew: Teens Out Past Midnight Will Go to Church
    84 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50532617] [B]Minors don't have rights. [/B]On top of that, you can't just yell "my rights!" any time you're barred from doing something you want.[/QUOTE] This view absolutely contradicts the last 40 years or so of 14th Amendment-related precedent. Minors absolutely do have rights, even if those rights are allowed to be curtailed to a limited extent in certain circumstances (i.e. school speech).
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;50534477]The reason for the curfew is because minors shouldn't be out late at night. It's as simple as that.[/QUOTE] It is because it is everyone... Stop asking questions or somewhat questioning my reasoning [editline]19th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50549761] Probably could, but no one will. The law doesn't affect anyone who can't vote anyway.[/QUOTE] My country is a nanny state, but we have a government institution that concerns itself with nothing but suing people and the government when they screw over people that cannot protect themselves like homeless, handicapped, mentally ill, but also children... one notable case is when they had a case against the government giving parents the right to decide what people they talked to... it now is legally set that parents are not allowed to prevent a child from seeing someone unless it clearly endangers the child.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50532703]1. Read my post about what "separation of state and church" means 2. This is hardly a nanny-state policy.[/QUOTE] How is a state enforced curfew not a nanny-state policy?
[QUOTE=squids_eye;50550040]How is a state enforced curfew not a nanny-state policy?[/QUOTE] It's for minors. Kids. I know this forum is full of them and find that hard to understand, but it's not a stepping stone to becoming a police state.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50549151]If the parents don't do it, the state will. [/QUOTE] Maybe parents fucking trust their kid and there's no reason for the state to do anything?
[QUOTE=Maximo13;50550119]Maybe parents fucking trust their kid and there's no reason for the state to do anything?[/QUOTE] The state can't be aware of whether the parents trust the kids or not. So it assumes the worse and takes the responsibility of removing them back home.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50550082]It's for minors. Kids. I know this forum is full of them and find that hard to understand, but it's not a stepping stone to becoming a police state.[/QUOTE] Where I live there's no curfew, I hung out with my friends a lot till late at night as a 14-17 year old, and I'm not worse off because of it, nor are my parents any less responsible. It's nanny state shit.
Are we talking about the biggest economy of the world? The country with the most powerful armed forces? The nº1 country in innovation and development? What the fuck is going on here?
[QUOTE=FetusFondler;50550301]Where I live there's no curfew, I hung out with my friends a lot till late at night as a 14-17 year old, and I'm not worse off because of it, nor are my parents any less responsible. It's nanny state shit.[/QUOTE] Alrighty Mr. Anecdote [editline]19th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Cutthecrap;50550313]Are we talking about the biggest economy of the world? The country with the most powerful armed forces? The nº1 country in innovation and development? What the fuck is going on here?[/QUOTE] The fuck does any of that have to do with anything?
[QUOTE=DiBBs27;50533239]The word curfew, enforced by government personnel, sets off alarm bells for me automatically, regardless of age, country and government. There are reasons for curfew. But those reasons are typically reserved for extreme situations such as state of emergency and other instances of that nature. In this particular case, it seems like an over reaction to a few incidents that are leaving a very sour taste in the mouth of a neighborhood, rightfully so. But people do make irrational decisions when motivated by emotion.[/QUOTE] There's a bunch of issues with them, mainly they appear to be very arbitrarily enforced and predominantly target the poor but there is also some good achieved by them. The largest reason why they were enacted is because nobody could complain, youth don't or didn't have any platform back in the 90s to complain and it didn't piss off partisans on either side of the isle so they were more feel good than anything else [editline]19th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=FetusFondler;50550301]Where I live there's no curfew, I hung out with my friends a lot till late at night as a 14-17 year old, and I'm not worse off because of it, nor are my parents any less responsible. It's nanny state shit.[/QUOTE] More like scapegoat state. These programs were all part of the "tough" on crime approach in the 90s, it was one thing both sides could agree on, though the statistics on their effectiveness are anicdotal at best. Today they're part of yet another series of legacy laws that we are starting to seriously analyze
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50550354]Alrighty Mr. Anecdote [/QUOTE] So everyone outside of places where a curfew is enforced is "Mr. Anecdote", yet when it's people talking about how good a curfew is and we should thank our governments for enforcing is, it's objective truth right get the hell outta here with that crap
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50550132]The state can't be aware of whether the parents trust the kids or not. So it assumes the worse and takes the responsibility of removing them back home.[/QUOTE] It's not the states responsibility to take care of the kids, it's the parents. If the kid gets hit by a car you charge the parents with something, that's how a free country works. Also if some cop comes up to me and tells me my 16 year old that I sent out to get chips or something got taken to church Id be fucking pissed.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50532547]A lot of places in the US have curfews for minors unattended by adults. I don't see a problem with it, but FP being full of minors I'm sure I'll be one of the few okay with this.[/QUOTE] This is one situation where it really shouldn't be up to the state. There are plenty of reasons for minors to be out after midnight by themselves. I worked in high school and would sometimes do late shifts on the weekends and over the summer, I'd walk home as late as 1 or 2am at times. I was fine with it and most importantly, my parents were fine with it. Why should the government have been allowed to arbitrarily outlaw me [i]walking home from work[/i]?
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50550132]The state can't be aware of whether the parents trust the kids or not. So it assumes the worse and takes the responsibility of removing them back home.[/QUOTE] Wait so, you're actually arguing for curfews? :v: You never stayed out past midnight as a 15-17 year-old yourself? And you'd argue that they shouldn't stay out past midnight generally ever, because.. why? I can't find any good reason for this, unless it's literally proven to be more dangerous for them to be outside past midnight in that area, or so. Crime is probably a factor when deciding on curfew, I guess.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50550082]It's for minors. Kids. I know this forum is full of them and find that hard to understand, but it's not a stepping stone to becoming a police state.[/QUOTE] So it's not a nanny state, it's just a literal nanny state? How do you think countries like Denmark works out without a curfew? Hint: Just fine. Keeping tabs on your kids is the job of a parent, not the police. You shouldn't [I]need[/I] a reason to be outside your own house.
man, curfews suck but the issue I have here is forced church counseling. Whatever happened to just taking them back to the station and calling their parents? Why is it so important to push them toward a 'faith?' Offering them counseling is great, but it shouldn't be religious counseling unless requested. It's not like cops are baptising kids in the street or anything, but the religious slant on this seems ridiculous and unnecessary. Sure I'd be worried if my kid were out past curfew, but I'd be fuming if I picked them up only to find out that they'd been told by the government to whom I pay my fair share of taxes to that they 'Need Jesus.' This might seem a little strong, but this really strikes me as people using local tragedy as a way to push their agenda on youth.
this is dumb let parents do their part and cut out this bs
[QUOTE=DiscoMelon;50553873]man, curfews suck but the issue I have here is forced church counseling. Whatever happened to just taking them back to the station and calling their parents? Why is it so important to push them toward a 'faith?' Offering them counseling is great, but it shouldn't be religious counseling unless requested. It's not like cops are baptising kids in the street or anything, but the religious slant on this seems ridiculous and unnecessary. Sure I'd be worried if my kid were out past curfew, but I'd be fuming if I picked them up only to find out that they'd been told by the government to whom I pay my fair share of taxes to that they 'Need Jesus.' This might seem a little strong, but this really strikes me as people using local tragedy as a way to push their agenda on youth.[/QUOTE] Actually it's much better to have the kids shipped to church, cuz it saves police resources not processing the kids at the station. But it's the police still picking up kids for nothing, which wastes resources and energy. So the whole "taking kids to church" is not the main point of disgust here, at least not to me! It's the curfew in and of itself that I find disgusting, notably 15-17-year-old's being heavily restricted in their movement. Although we're talking about a 300-million people nation, with drugs and crime around certain areas to a worrying degree, I'm not surprised Americans have found it worthwhile to put curfews in place, and thus I'm not completely against the idea ofc. But when you move to a smaller nation, say Finland for example, the idea of a curfew becomes so ridiculous and out of this world that I wanna kill myself, there is absolutely no need for it.
What the hell is there to do outside after midnight anyways
[QUOTE=Citrus705;50554203]What the hell is there to do outside after midnight anyways[/QUOTE] Maybe they're out for a walk or whatever. I dunno, seems like people sometimes do stuff because they want to?
[QUOTE=Citrus705;50554203]What the hell is there to do outside after midnight anyways[/QUOTE] IMO most kids do it to piss off their parents and look tough
Curfews are idiotic and it surprises me that it's a thing that actually exists What doesn't surprise me is that Americans here are the only ones defending it, since it's one of the few countries that have it Same as with hitting your kids i guess, only people who grew up with it would defend it. Because admitting it's bad and harmful would be admitting that you have problems, or in this case missed out on good experiences and growth in your youth [QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50550082]It's for minors. Kids. I know this forum is full of them and find that hard to understand, but it's not a stepping stone to becoming a police state.[/QUOTE] I'm 21
Back when I was 14/15 I was out past midnight all the time longboarding around with my friends. Never caused any trouble, it was just our only means of transportation that late during the summer. We got picked up by an officer once, he was mostly curious why we'd even want to be skating at 2 in the morning, but just insisted he give us a ride home. We were only a couple miles away and pretty tired so we appreciated the ride, minus the uncomfortable back seat of the police car. Forcing a teenager to go to church for being out past curfew is not only ridiculous, it's unconstitutional.
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