[QUOTE=Pepsi-cola;38880974]If people were really that bothered about self defence then they oughta get off their arses and take classes.[/QUOTE]
What, like karate? Yeah, my grandma would kick ass like the fucking Karate Kid, sure.
[QUOTE=Nitoliskus;38881029]People that want weapons will find them. Banning guns will do nothing. Prohibition does not work.[/QUOTE]
It kinda does depending on the circumstances.
[QUOTE=Nitoliskus;38881029]If you try to ban something the majority of people want, they will find it someway somehow.[/QUOTE]
Not always. The prohibition did actually reduce alcohol consumption.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38881015]Except some governments have policies which practically eliminate criminal activity and/or gangs on a large scale.[/QUOTE]
Have you ever had an opportunity to grace the peasantry living in a lower income neighborhood, try little Haiti sometime, or the denizens of Atlanta, you'd be surprised how little that government policy matters.
Everyone from Europe: "You really need to get your shit together America, your gun porn culture's freaking everyone in the civilized world out."
Most people from America: "Yeah we might have to revise some stuff"
Patriots: "Freedom bears arms of I don't trust the police, because assholes will always manage to get their guns illegally anyway."
It's always the same thing in these threads, isn't it?
[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;38881040]It's different for the States and it's more complicated than that. The UK is the size of Florida, and frankly, we have a lot more population and landspace, so reform is a really fucking complicated issue.[/QUOTE]
Electoral reform would be the first goal towards fixing problems.
[QUOTE=Bobie;38881063]if the problem is rooted in education, then improve the education system
it's not that difficult to make the connection[/QUOTE]
It apparently is, because this argument happens every time there's a shooting.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38881079]
Not always. The prohibition did actually reduce alcohol consumption.[/QUOTE]
And let Al-Capone rise to power.
Your point?
[QUOTE=snapshot32;38881083]Have you ever had an opportunity to grace the peasantry living in a lower income neighborhood, try little Haiti sometime, or the denizens of Atlanta, you'd be surprised how little that government policy matters.[/QUOTE]
What? So somehow the Scandinavian countries suddenly cease to exist?
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;38881068]the ban is dumb and pointless though, literally NONE of those features have any sort of effect on someone ability to commit mass murder
I mean I really dont think any more damage would have been done if the shooters rifle had a fucking barrel shroud on it[/QUOTE]
One could argue that having a flash hider would make it more difficult to locate and apprehend a gunman in a large area, and like I said with the pistol grip, it may allow for more comfortable shooting and the ability to 'bind fire' from corners and whatnot.
not saying i AGREE with the ban, just pointing out some possible arguments
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;38881101]And let Al-Capone rise to power.
Your point?[/QUOTE]
Consumption dropped.
I.e prohibition did actually reduce consumption (despite all it's other flaws and faults).
[QUOTE=DaMastez;38881026]Most of those are so fucking dumb. Yes, because having a pistol grip instantly makes a gun 500% more deadly. It's like whoever wrote this shit played way to many video games.
I mean, when was the last time bayonet's were used while attached to gun in combat?[/QUOTE]
Bayonets are used on an extremely small scale, but still used. The bayonet charge hasn't been used on any meaningful scale in over half a century, but bayonets are still used for urban combat and if troops start running out of ammo.
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;38881116]One could argue that having a flash hider would make it more difficult to locate and apprehend a gunman in a large area[/QUOTE]
Most of the time flash-hiders are there so people don't end up having a five foot tall pillar of fire every time they shoot, not so much to conceal.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38881126]Consumption dropped.
I.e prohibition did actually reduce consumption (despite all it's other flaws and faults).[/QUOTE]
This is the truth. A gun ban has the potential to lower gun related crimes.
It also has the potential to raise other violent crime rates, but the ban WOULD achieve its goal.
[QUOTE=Kartoffel;38880965]Uh oh, looks like my Saiga is an assault rifle! I'm such a rebel! Lock me up! :v:[/QUOTE]
Don't worry, My antique M1 on display makes me a rebel too.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38881126]Consumption dropped.
I.e prohibition did actually reduce consumption (despite all it's other flaws and faults).[/QUOTE]
So you're willing to look past the problems it causes because of the effects it achieved? Trade one problem for another, then?
I can see why prohibition was repealed.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38881092]Electoral reform would be the first goal towards fixing problems.[/QUOTE]
The fuck does this have to do with anything? What are you doing Sobotnik?
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38881112]What? So somehow the Scandinavian countries suddenly cease to exist?[/QUOTE]
My apologies, I'd assumed the discussion was regarding [B]America[/B] and [B]Her[/B] problems.
But Scandinavia's cool too.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38881079]Not always. The prohibition did actually reduce alcohol consumption.[/QUOTE]
And I'm sure [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition_in_the_United_States#Effects_of_the_Prohibition]nothing bad happened from it[/url].
Wait.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;38881141]Most of the time flash-hiders are there so people don't end up having a five foot tall pillar of fire every time they shoot, not so much to conceal.[/QUOTE]
I've never actually seen a flash-hider in use so I'll take your word for it, but there are plenty of other arguments for suppressors and rifle grenades (even if suppressors don't do remotely what they do in the films)
i hope we can all agree that no one needs rifle grenades, though
[QUOTE=Protocol7;38879837]What a disgusting straw man argument. I'm sure responsible gun owners will love to hear you think that because they own guns, people are dying.[/QUOTE]
By letting pretty much everybody to own them, you're increasing the chance of lunatics getting access to them too. Not all of them are going to end up with responsible gun owners.
[QUOTE=snapshot32;38881019]The 'Need' argument was stated before, and it will be again.
As far as an answer goes, I don't need a semi-automatic M-14 or an AK, I could do just as good with a bolt action Remington, However, the capability for me to put more rounds on target until the entity that threatens my well-being is neutralized is what makes me want one. In a situation where my life is at risk I'm not going to fuck around, I'm going to empty my magazine until I'm safe and thats why i want a semi automatic.
Maybe that's not a concern for someone who lives in a gated community with security officers and cameras, but for me it is.[/QUOTE]
It's not a risk though, you don't live in a war torn or third world country where getting fresh water can be a difficult task in itself. You live in a first world country with governing bodies, enforced laws and a health system.
What you are is paranoid. You believe that just because you don't live in a gated community, you're at risk of being mugged or killed everyday. You're also likely to be hit by a car or infected with a disease or any other possible occurrences that kill thousands of people. But you're not worried about that are you?
The want argument is more to do with how the media portrays guns as being these heroic tools that can save lives and makes you more likely to carry a gun on you like it's part of your skin.
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;38881168]I've never actually seen a flash-hider in use so I'll take your word for it, but there are plenty of other arguments for suppressors and rifle grenades (even if suppressors don't do remotely what they do in the films)
i hope we can all agree that no one needs rifle grenades, though[/QUOTE]
I think the only country that even uses them anymore is japan.
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;38881168]i hope we can all agree that no one needs rifle grenades, though[/QUOTE]
It's more of a want than a need, per se, but I would like to have some for my SKS. :v:
[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;38881165]And I'm sure [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition_in_the_United_States#Effects_of_the_Prohibition]nothing bad happened from it[/url].
Wait.[/QUOTE]
He never denied that, hell he addressed that point actually.
The ban did what it was set out to do, so it was a technical success.
Sure there were some side effects, but you can't say it didn't drop consumption.
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;38881168]
i hope we can all agree that no one needs rifle grenades, though[/QUOTE]
They're already considered a destructive device, or unless you get those kooky 10 shot .22 "grenades" that are really a novelty more than an actual weapon.
[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;38881165]And I'm sure [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition_in_the_United_States#Effects_of_the_Prohibition]nothing bad happened from it[/url].
Wait.[/QUOTE]
Except he was arguing that prohibition didn't stop people from getting what they wanted.
Alcohol consumption halved.
[QUOTE=slamex;38881179]It's not a risk though, you don't live in a war torn or third world country where getting fresh water can be a difficult task in itself. You live in a first world country with governing bodies, enforced laws and a health system.
What you are is paranoid. You believe that just because you don't live in a gated community, you're at risk of being mugged or killed everyday. You're also likely to be hit by a car or infected with a disease or any other possible occurrences that kill thousands of people. But you're not worried about that are you?
The want argument is more to do with how the media portrays guns as being these heroic tools that can save lives and makes you more likely to carry a gun on you like it's part of your skin.[/QUOTE]
I don't know where you live, but America is this massive country with a lot of social and economic diversity. Having a gun doesn't make you a nut if you intend to use it for self defense.
[QUOTE=Marik Bentusi;38881090]Everyone from Europe: "You really need to get your shit together America, your gun porn culture's freaking everyone in the civilized world out."[/QUOTE]
European here, please revise that statement.
-snip-
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38881196]Except he was arguing that prohibition didn't stop people from getting what they wanted.
Alcohol consumption halved.[/QUOTE]
And? That's still saying that there's 50 percent of the people still drinking.
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