[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;38881770]So are you basically saying that a lot of things went to complete shit (people lost jobs, criminals became powerful, people lost lives) but it's somehow okay because there was less alcohol around?[/QUOTE]
For a second there, I thought you said "because there was less alcohol [b]running[/b] around". I got confused for a second, then realized I misread it. :v:
[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;38881739]Mine was more of a rebuttal to his "guns are complex things and hard to make" theory.[/QUOTE]
Reliable, professional, cheap, accurate, automatic, etc guns tend to be made in factories.
Rifling a gun for instance is a difficult thing to do that only got common in the 19th century. Without rifling, your gun is useless a great deal of the time.
[editline]18th December 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;38881770]So are you basically saying that a lot of things went to complete shit (people lost jobs, criminals became powerful, people lost lives) but it's somehow okay because there was less alcohol around?[/QUOTE]
Where did I say the prohibition was good?
I.e stop putting words in my mouth.
[editline]18th December 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=heyitsdan;38881769]'So the number of criminal gangs is on the rise and thus more and more policemen and innocent civilians are being killed as gangs struggle to sell alcohol on the black market... but the average Joe is now drinking 3 units a week instead of 7!!! GREAT SUCCESS!!!!!'[/QUOTE]
Erm, how does this relate to my argument?
Not going to solve shit. And just makes a lot of gun enthusiasts really butthurt. not that i am one, just this will not prevent the act of shootings.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38881821]Reliable, professional, cheap, accurate, automatic, etc guns tend to be made in factories.
Rifling a gun for instance is a difficult thing to do that only got common in the 19th century. Without rifling, your gun is useless a great deal of the time.
[editline]18th December 2012[/editline]
Where did I say the prohibition was good?
I.e stop putting words in my mouth.[/QUOTE]
Your descriptions are loose and are not leading anywhere.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38881821]Reliable, professional, cheap, accurate, automatic, etc guns tend to be made in factories.
Rifling a gun for instance is a difficult thing to do that only got common in the 19th century. Without rifling, your gun is useless a great deal of the time.[/QUOTE]
I don't know, muskets are pretty damn accurate, and a lot of the ones used in the revolution weren't rifled.
Also, irrelevant fun fact: the main gun of the Abrams tank is not rifled. :v:
[QUOTE=Sir M;38879455]Ban things that can be used as weapons[/QUOTE]
Everything can be a weapons.
[QUOTE=kimr120;38881780]I love how the whole thread is discussing with Sobotnik.[/QUOTE]
Because this is all he does, as I've mentioned previously. He doesn't make coherent arguments. He produces some random tidbit of statistical data and parades it around as the holy grail of reasoning and thought, then does everything he can to avoid explaining why it is valid or useful information. Failing that he invariably falls back upon his trademarked goalpost movement where he ignores all previous discussion and picks some new random tidbit of statistical data which is paraded around as the holy grail of reasoning and thought
Sometimes he even moves around so much he goes back to points that he previously stopped responding too.
[QUOTE=alx12345;38881862]Everything can be a weapons.[/QUOTE]
Lets ban human fists and feet.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38881719]Because despite people wanting alcohol, committing crimes, the growth of criminal gangs, etc, surprisingly, [B]alcohol consumption dropped.[/B][/QUOTE]
How did they record illegal alcohol consumption?
[QUOTE=Kartoffel;38881860]I don't know, muskets are pretty damn accurate, and a lot of the ones used in the revolution weren't rifled.
Also, irrelevant fun fact: the main gun of the Abrams tank is not rifled. :v:[/QUOTE]
Hate to burst your bubble, but muskets were terrible in the whole accuracy department.
[QUOTE=Kartoffel;38881860]I don't know, muskets are pretty damn accurate, and a lot of the ones used in the revolution weren't rifled.[/QUOTE]
Then why introduce rifling?
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38881821]Erm, how does this relate to my argument?
[/QUOTE]
Because the situation would be exactly the same if guns are banned?
[QUOTE=kimr120;38881882]Lets ban human fists and feet.[/QUOTE]
Cut off hands and feet so everyone can start calling Orlando Bloom "Leglas".
[editline]18th December 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38881901]Then why introduce rifling?[/QUOTE]
To make them even more accurate of course. :v:
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38881901]Then why introduce rifling?[/QUOTE]
For shorter barrels to make them easier to carry?
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38881821]Where did I say the prohibition was good?
I.e stop putting words in my mouth.[/QUOTE]
You can't expect people to understand what the hell do you think about something, if all you (vehemently) say about it is "BUT IT WORKED GUISE, ALCOHOL GOT REMOVED".
Seriously, stop dancing around semantics like a ballerina on MDMA and say something clear for once.
[QUOTE=SKEEA;38881897]Hate to burst your bubble, but muskets were terrible in the whole accuracy department.[/QUOTE]
When you had several hundred of them in a line, you could hit something. That's gotta count for something! :v:
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38881821]
Erm, how does this relate to my argument?[/QUOTE]
"Because despite people wanting alcohol, committing crimes, the growth of criminal gangs, etc, surprisingly, alcohol consumption dropped."
What you're saying is crime got a whole lot worse, but people drank less... as if that is somehow an improvement?
[QUOTE=Kartoffel;38881860]Also, irrelevant fun fact: the main gun of the Abrams tank is not rifled. :v:[/QUOTE]
Yes, though that is because you can fire a wider variety of shell types.
Most notably canister shot. As it turns out a 120mm shotgun shell is really fucking cheap and effective.
My favorite homemade firearm is this
[video=youtube;n1wV3lmbSv4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1wV3lmbSv4[/video]
$7 worth of materials and a couple of hours.
While I don't have a problem with this, psychopaths will just find other ways to cause a mass murder.
[QUOTE=GunFox;38881933]Yes, though that is because you can fire a wider variety of shell types.
Most notably canister shot. As it turns out a 120mm shotgun shell is really fucking cheap and effective.[/QUOTE]
Not to mention horrifying.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38881821]Erm, how does this relate to my argument?[/QUOTE]
You tell us.
You're the one who keeps acting as if prohibition actually accomplished anything positive.
[QUOTE=GunFox;38881933]Yes, though that is because you can fire a wider variety of shell types.
Most notably canister shot. As it turns out a 120mm shotgun shell is really fucking cheap and effective.[/QUOTE]
Plus, the rounds move at such high velocity that it really doesn't need rifling.
so if I'm reading Sobotnik's points correctly, a total gun ban would decrease "gun consumption" in half yet would result in an increase in violence
isn't the point of a gun ban to decrease violence?
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;38881945]You tell us.
You're the one who keeps acting as if prohibition actually accomplished anything positive.[/QUOTE]
"Consumption was halved".
:v:
Sobotnik, you're not doing too well.
[QUOTE=RAG Frag;38881886]How did they record illegal alcohol consumption?[/QUOTE]
Not entirely sure, but I used this [url]http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=BuzNzm-x0l8C&pg=PA23&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false[/url] and [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition_in_the_United_States[/url] to base my argument that consumption dropped from.
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;38881968]so if I'm reading Sobotnik's points correctly, a total gun ban would decrease "gun consumption" in half yet would result in an increase in violence
isn't the point of a gun ban to decrease violence?[/QUOTE]
That is the point of all bans. To decrease something but if we use Sobotnik logics so will violence increase.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38881994]Not entirely sure, but I used this [url]http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=BuzNzm-x0l8C&pg=PA23&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false[/url] and [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition_in_the_United_States[/url] to base my argument that consumption dropped from.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=snapshot32;38881672]Fucking Moonshine
[url]http://www.blueridgeinstitute.org/moonshine/building_the_moonshiner_industry.html[/url][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;38881945]You tell us.
You're the one who keeps acting as if prohibition actually accomplished anything positive.[/QUOTE]
No I'm not?
I never argued it was positive.
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;38881968]so if I'm reading Sobotnik's points correctly, a total gun ban would decrease "gun consumption" in half yet would result in an increase in violence
isn't the point of a gun ban to decrease violence?[/QUOTE]
I think you're mistaking sobotnik for everyone replying to sobotnik
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