• Obama to ban assault weapons.
    1,785 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Tureis;38888175]I think you're making assumptions on what he actually wants.[/QUOTE] You have to really have read a lot of Sobotnik posts to know what he said is right. The things he's said about the US Constitution alone speaks volumes. Take a look at this thread, it's classic Sobotnik: [url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1185124[/url]
[QUOTE=Tureis;38888175]I think you're making assumptions on what he actually wants.[/QUOTE] I'm not making any assumptions, he has outwardly stated his opinions on guns and American gun culture. I'm just putting him in his place.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;38888174]Most Brits won't understand American gun culture just as most Americans won't understand the point of the English monarchy.[/QUOTE] That doesn't mean anything when an average moron can go out and read a few articles about both and instantly be as savvy as the rest of the Americans on the topic of gun culture or as savvy as the rest of the English on their monarchy.
[QUOTE=GunFox;38888114]So you are only in favor of a complete ban?[/QUOTE] How the hell do you manage to spin my opposition of a partial ban into full support of a complete ban? I don't support either, what?
[QUOTE=Mike42012;38888226]That doesn't mean anything when an average moron can go out and read a few articles about both and instantly be as savvy as the rest of the Americans on the topic of gun culture or as savvy as the rest of the English on their monarchy.[/QUOTE] There's a difference between being a life long participant in a culture and studying it from afar.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;38888239]There's a difference between being a life long participant in a culture and studying it from afar.[/QUOTE] But is that a valid enough reason for exclusion?
[QUOTE=Bredirish123;38888126]Sobotnik is in favor of an entire weapons ban.[/QUOTE] No i'm not. Stop putting words in my mouth.
[QUOTE=GunFox;38888073]Okay so which one of these makes a gun more dangerous? Keeping in mind that rifle grenade launchers were used in WWII and virtually no functional grenades even exist, and that to obtain a single one you have to go through a mound of federal paperwork and pay whatever ridiculous price tag it may have. Functionally speaking nobody will EVER use a rifle grenade in a crime.[/QUOTE] thus proving that guns, with or without pistol grips and foldin stocks, are bad, and shouldnt be in the hands of anyone but military and police. banning "assault weapons" makes no difference whatsoever. Lanza could have performed the same gruesome actions with a handgun or hunting rifle. Tighten the gun laws all together, Obama. Please.
[QUOTE=Mike42012;38888226]That doesn't mean anything when an average moron can go out and read a few articles about both and instantly be as savvy as the rest of the Americans on the topic of gun culture or as savvy as the rest of the English on their monarchy.[/QUOTE] Not really...You can get a general understanding. IE: Americans take pride in their guns, apple pie, baseball, and freedom Or English love tea, Monarchy, and old shit. The point is, you have to live amongst the culture and its people to understand it on a more deeper, less generalized manner. I have been living in Greece for almost two years now and have more of an understanding of the economic situation than anyone here who can pull out articles on EU finance summits, etc; this is because I'm living around it and absorb it on a daily basis. I've been to England once, I felt safe with all the CCTV around, though in East London I was worried about getting shanked. The thing is though I can't properly form any opinion around English matters because I don't live there.
[QUOTE=Mike42012;38888243]But is that a valid enough reason for exclusion?[/QUOTE] No one is excluding you. We're just saying your opinion is irrelevant because, due to living outside the culture, you simply won't understand it as someone who has lived it their entire lives. [editline]19th December 2012[/editline] Reading about a culture from articles and news clips is hardly a full, encompassing immersion into the said culture.
Why don't we just ban all non-pistol automatic/semi-automatics (excluding shotguns) for defense use, and only allow them on regulated fields for hunting, and then have the same checks as we do with cars, as stated earlier?
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38888236]How the hell do you manage to spin my opposition of a partial ban into full support of a complete ban? I don't support either, what?[/QUOTE] Then what was the prohibition discussion about earlier? I'm not annoyed or anything, I'm honestly curious. I just want to understand your viewpoint.
[QUOTE=Mike42012;38888273]Why don't we just ban all non-pistol automatic/semi-automatics (excluding shotguns) for defense use, and only allow them on regulated fields for hunting, and then have the same checks as we do with cars, as stated earlier?[/QUOTE] Because bans only hurt law abiding citizens who wouldn't use them for ill anyway. Do you think criminals care about gun bans? They're already criminals.
[QUOTE=kevlar jens;38888252]thus proving that guns, with or without pistol grips and foldin stocks, are bad, and shouldnt be in the hands of anyone but military and police[/QUOTE] An interesting, though fallacious, leap in logic.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;38888262]No one is excluding you. We're just saying your opinion is irrelevant because, due to living outside the culture, you simply won't understand it as someone who has lived it their entire lives. [editline]19th December 2012[/editline] Reading about a culture from articles and news clips is hardly a full, encompassing immersion into the said culture.[/QUOTE] I'm not talking about my exclusion. Besides, I can only suggest things based on my experiences living here as a citizen. It might not be, but if that were the case, why doesn't everyone just drop their opinions about the Mid-East, since we haven't been 'immersed' in the culture our whole lives. A bullshit excuse used by people throughout this thread, not singling you out, to avoid confrontational debate.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;38888174]Most Brits won't understand American gun culture just as most Americans won't understand the point of the English monarchy.[/QUOTE] A little off topic here but isn't it that they still have the monarchy to preserve and respect traditional English culture? Doesn't seem to be too hard to reason out. Likewise it shouldn't be too hard to figure out that we here have guns as hobbies, sports, collateral against tyranny, self defense, etc. etc.
[QUOTE=GunFox;38888274]Then what was the prohibition discussion about earlier? I'm not annoyed or anything, I'm honestly curious. I just want to understand your viewpoint.[/QUOTE] The original argument way back was some guy saying that prohibition did nothing (people find a way). It did actually become more difficult to acquire alcohol, even with all those mafia groups and speakeasys. It's not difficult to see that finding a gun would be even incrementally more difficult in a prohibition, since the state would be taking an active role in getting rid of them and prosecuting people who owned them. I'm in favour for guns to be regulated like cars are. (Tests, licenses, etc)
[QUOTE=Mike42012;38888273]Why don't we just ban all non-pistol automatic/semi-automatics (excluding shotguns) for defense use, and only allow them on regulated fields for hunting, and then have the same checks as we do with cars, as stated earlier?[/QUOTE] Because that only keeps track of legal owners who aren't likely to go out an commit a crime with their weapon. We can't just look at these mass shootings and assume that they make up the majority of the fatalities by weapons per year. Though, these tragedies are saddening we can't lose focus on the fact that someone who robs a quickie mart and shoots the clerk most likely didn't go out and register the gun or get the proper CCW permit. It's most likely either A) Stolen. or B) Blackmarket traded/smuggled in from elsewhere.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38888303]The original argument way back was some guy saying that prohibition did nothing (people find a way). It did actually become more difficult to acquire alcohol, even with all those mafia groups and speakeasys. It's not difficult to see that finding a gun would be even incrementally more difficult in a prohibition, since the state would be taking an active role in getting rid of them and prosecuting people who owned them. I'm in favour for guns to be regulated like cars are. (Tests, licenses, etc)[/QUOTE] Ahhh, I see, thanks for clearing that up. I think that may explain some of the confusion going on during that discussion.
[QUOTE=Mike42012;38888295]I'm not talking about my exclusion. Besides, I can only suggest things based on my experiences living here as a citizen. It might not be, but if that were the case, why doesn't everyone just drop their opinions about the Mid-East, since we haven't been 'immersed' in the culture our whole lives. A bullshit excuse used by people throughout this thread, not singling you out, to avoid confrontational debate.[/QUOTE] Because the middle east restricts freedoms of religion and many other individual rights that are more or less construed to be universal and everyone in this forum mostly agree on. Guns can be wrong in Britain but okay in America. But flogging for punishment is pretty barbaric everywhere save parts of the middle east.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;38888191]You have to really have read a lot of Sobotnik posts to know what he said is right. The things he's said about the US Constitution alone speaks volumes. Take a look at this thread, it's classic Sobotnik: [url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1185124[/url][/QUOTE] WTF sounds like my British uncle I remember visiting my cousin in Hong Kong once, and me and my cousin were playing in the living room when I started talking about, "The British [i]Accent[/i] (given that I was pretty naive and innocent at the time)" The next thing I heard was a booming "WHAT?!?!?!" from my uncle. Likewise, he thinks us Americans are all traitors. He's that British.
[QUOTE=Bredirish123;38888161]No, I'm saying by default their opinion on domestic issues is redundant and just white noise. Unless the matter is upon the world stage another country's citizen has no real input on the matter. Especially when it deals with our culture. It would be the same if Americans started outwardly criticizing your lack of guns, or the amount of CCTV coverage. Obviously you'd prolly tell us to jog on because it doesn't personally affect us. Get it?[/QUOTE] idk that seems like just a really good cop-out to dismiss arguments with we're not really that different. if you think sobotnik doesn't "get it" then fine, try explaining it or linking him to something real that is if you're arguing because you want to learn something, if you're just arguing to boost your ego's then by all means
[QUOTE=BFG9000;38888312]WTF sounds like my British uncle I remember visiting my cousin in Hong Kong once, and me and my cousin were playing in the living room when I started talking about, "The British [i]Accent[/i] (given that I was pretty naive and innocent at the time)" The next thing I heard was a booming "WHAT?!?!?!" from my uncle. Likewise he thinks us Americans are all traitors.[/QUOTE] Speaking of British accents, I was listening to the BBC on the way home from work earlier and the female reporter kept pronouncing Obama as "Oh-bummer". Could not figure out where that 'r' was coming from :v:
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;38888310]Because the middle east restricts freedoms of religion and many other individual rights that are more or less construed to be universal and everyone in this forum mostly agree on. Guns can be wrong in Britain but okay in America. But flogging for punishment is pretty barbaric everywhere save parts of the middle east.[/QUOTE] But is it not still yet, a part of their culture? To solve this problem you need to define what 'culture' is when used in your context. Because any of the horrible things that go in Islamic oligarchies can be described as 'culture' if you are asking the right person.
[QUOTE=BFG9000;38888298]A little off topic here but isn't it that they still have the monarchy to preserve and respect traditional English culture? Doesn't seem to be too hard to reason out. Likewise it shouldn't be too hard to figure out that we here have guns as hobbies, sports, collateral against tyranny, self defense, etc. etc.[/QUOTE] Well that's where the heart of the matter is; most of us Americans find it a silly waste of money that is simply used as a tourist attraction (Regarding Monarchy) We really don't understand why it's simply there because we didn't grow up being conditioned to that lifestyle. Just as the English might find it silly that we use our 2nd Amendment as collateral against a tyrannical regime. It's a completely foreign and ridiculous idea to them. To us Americans though we grew up being conditioned to these traditional values. My point is you just can't argue culture away because you think yours is better or more right. (Not specifically saying you BFG9000)
[QUOTE=Bredirish123;38888258]Not really...You can get a general understanding. IE: Americans take pride in their guns, apple pie, baseball, and freedom Or English love tea, Monarchy, and old shit. The point is, you have to live amongst the culture and its people to understand it on a more deeper, less generalized manner. [/QUOTE] k you just generalized the fuck out of everyone if you call that general understanding then obviously you don't understand american or english culture. we don't all love tea, monarchy, and "old shit". just as americans don't all love guns, apple pie, baseball, and whatever the fuck freedom is (freedom in that context is an english concept fyi, the people who founded the united states were influenced by english authors)
[QUOTE=thisispain;38888335]k you just generalized the fuck out of everyone if you call that general understanding then obviously you don't understand american or english culture. we don't all love tea, monarchy, and "old shit". just as americans don't all love guns, apple pie, baseball, and whatever the fuck freedom is (freedom in that context is an english concept fyi, the people who founded the united states were influenced by english authors)[/QUOTE] He wasn't generalizing, he was using basic examples to make a point, which I think you completely missed.
[QUOTE=Bredirish123;38888331]Well that's where the heart of the matter is; most of us Americans find it a silly waste of money that is simply used as a tourist attraction (Regarding Monarchy)[/QUOTE] Well I do too, but I'm British.
[QUOTE=thisispain;38888335]k you just generalized the fuck out of everyone if you call that general understanding then obviously you don't understand american or english culture. we don't all love tea, monarchy, and "old shit". just as americans don't all love guns, apple pie, baseball, and whatever the fuck freedom is (freedom in that context is an english concept fyi, the people who founded the united states were influenced by english authors)[/QUOTE] I think you're missing my point. I'm saying that tabloids, news, movies, and other general media paint that generalized picture. Please read a little closer thisispain, it's not that difficult. [editline]19th December 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Sobotnik;38888342]Well I do too, but I'm British.[/QUOTE] And you can have that opinion, whereas my opinion on it doesn't really count for anything because I don't live there, pay taxes, or work.
[QUOTE=Bredirish123;38888347]I think you're missing my point. I'm saying that tabloids, news, movies, and other general media paint that generalized picture. Please read a little closer thisispain, it's not that difficult.[/QUOTE] i'm not missing the point, i can see your point very clearly and i think it's a dreadful way to dismiss sobotnik, whom i don't even agree with you say sobotnik doesn't understand american gun culture. do you understand american gun culture?
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