• Obama to ban assault weapons.
    1,785 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Bredirish123;38888331]Well that's where the heart of the matter is; most of us Americans find it a silly waste of money that is simply used as a tourist attraction (Regarding Monarchy) We really don't understand why it's simply there because we didn't grow up being conditioned to that lifestyle. Just as the English might find it silly that we use our 2nd Amendment as collateral against a tyrannical regime. It's a completely foreign and ridiculous idea to them. To us Americans though we grew up being conditioned to these traditional values. My point is you just can't argue culture away because you think yours is better or more right. (Not specifically saying you BFG9000)[/QUOTE] Well I understand but I'm just saying, I regard the monarchy as a piece of culture worth preserving and I was NEVER a part of that lifestyle at all. So, is this just me? Because it's really quite easy to figure out our reasons for the second amendment without having been raised in American culture, or any other gun-happy country.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;38888340]He wasn't generalizing, he was using basic examples to make a point, which I think you completely missed.[/QUOTE] missing the point and disagreeing with the premise of the point are two different things
[QUOTE=thisispain;38888364]i'm not missing the point, i can see your point very clearly and i think it's a dreadful way to dismiss sobotnik, whom i don't even agree with you say sobotnik doesn't understand american gun culture. do you understand american gun culture?[/QUOTE] Of course I do, I've been raised in a military family who is very patriotic (More than I agree with) and have a background of hunting, though not as much anymore. I am also applying for my CCW Permit because I see it as a means to protect myself and my loved ones in the event I am faced with a lethal situation. I really don't see the point you're making.
[QUOTE=Bredirish123;38888394]Of course I do, I've been raised in a military family who is very patriotic (More than I agree with) and have a background of hunting, though not as much anymore. I am also applying for my CCW Permit because I see it as a means to protect myself and my loved ones in the event I am faced with a lethal situation. I really don't see the point you're making.[/QUOTE] i'm not really making any point it's just this thread has been 19 pages of complete awful and i want to actually read something with substance would you mind explaining what it is about american culture that you think is irrevocably connected with guns?
[QUOTE=thisispain;38888401]i'm not really making any point it's just this thread has been 19 pages of complete awful and i want to actually read something with substance would you mind explaining what it is about american culture that you think is irrevocably connected with guns?[/QUOTE] Well the fact that the right to keep and bear arms is a fundamental right to any American Citizen; it's not a requirement, but if an individual wants to have a means to protect themselves with a firearm it's there for them to practice while also following the Federal and their respective state's laws regarding firearms. The Constitution alone is essentially the sole reason Americans are so protective of their 2nd amendment because they feel that the laws established by our founding fathers, whom were very adamant about preventing tyranny in the future, are the backbone of what makes our nation what it is. It isn't a strict black and white issue; Americans don't love guns just because we have guns but it's the roots of why we have guns that makes us proud of such rights. We know we may never have to form militias to disrupt and remove tyranny from control, but the general principal that we have that in the very beginning of our Constitution gives people a sense of pride and respect to our formation and historical past. Again, an English person may understand the history of America, our laws, the Constitution, etc, but they will never have that sense of pride in the Constitution; they will never get that patriotic sensation in the pit of their stomach when they read the Declaration of Independence, or see the flag fly during the 4th of July. Just as us Americans will never get those feelings about seeing the Union Jack, or hearing God Save the Queen. It's something that is rooted in your background and cultural upbringing.
i don't get any of those feelings it's a mystery to me just don't tell me about americans, tell me more about why YOU care about it. obviously not all americans share your beliefs at all, so i'm more interested in your feelings about it rather than what the "american citizen" feels about it.
Honestly? Ban all guns. People don't need guns. Face it. Why do you need something that fires a projectile at somebody with the soul purpose of killing? We don't even need to hunt anymore in the first world, unless you live in the bush and physically can not get to a store to buy food. Even then, use a bow, traps, anything. Intruder in your house? Get a baseball bat, a big knife, anything but a killing machine. You should never have to kill anybody, just incapacitate them. All these people in the US with assault rifles and handguns and shit are only housing them so they can kill people that try to break in, or kill other people they dislike for any number of reasons. Hit the fucker in the face with a crowbar, I don't care, you shouldn't ever have to blow somebody's brains out. Love, a Canadian who thinks guns are useless in the real world
[QUOTE=thisispain;38888471]i don't get any of those feelings it's a mystery to me just don't tell me about americans, tell me more about why YOU care about it. obviously not all americans share your beliefs at all, so i'm more interested in your feelings about it rather than what the "american citizen" feels about it.[/QUOTE] I feel the way I do about it because it is deeply rooted in our Constitution, because I know I have a choice, just like I have a choice to serve in the military. The specific reason I want to carry is because I'm like one of the many gun owners out there who can be responsible, who treat it as a hobby with a deep respect for the seriousness of what a gun is and what a gun can do. I also understand that if I'm ever confronted in a way that my life is in danger I have a serious decision to make that must be made quickly and properly. I don't have a hardon for the thought of being able to pull it on someone one day; I see a gun as a simple tool. You can mishandle any tool; and every tool has a purpose for a specific scenario. It's not that I'm paranoid, because I'm not scared of the situation happening every time I go out; it's a lot like carrying a jack and a spare in your car. You don't go out driving expecting your tire to have a blowout, but you'd probably like to be prepared in the event it happens. Putting a Sig Sauer P229 in my waist holster will be like sticking a cellphone or swiss army knife in my pocket. It's just a tool that can be used if needed.
get rid of the culture of fear in the US and people will hopefully cease gathering excessive firearms against an non-existent threat where to start? improve the social conditions, one piece at a time
[QUOTE=zydos;38888489]Honestly? Ban all guns. People don't need guns. Face it. Why do you need something that fires a projectile at somebody with the soul purpose of killing? We don't even need to hunt anymore in the first world, unless you live in the bush and physically can not get to a store to buy food. Even then, use a bow, traps, anything. Intruder in your house? Get a baseball bat, a big knife, anything but a killing machine. You should never have to kill anybody, just incapacitate them. All these people in the US with assault rifles and handguns and shit are only housing them so they can kill people that try to break in, or kill other people they dislike for any number of reasons. Hit the fucker in the face with a crowbar, I don't care, you shouldn't ever have to blow somebody's brains out. Love, a Canadian who thinks guns are useless in the real world[/QUOTE] Because knives or baseball bats can only incapacitate someone; like as if it's going to tell you when to stop hitting or stabbing. Even then, there are a lot of people who don't have the ability strength wise to effectively use either of those things. I think what you and a lot of people don't understand is that the people who misuse weapons are criminals with a violent intent. The general gun owners protecting their homes, loved ones, and possessions aren't searching for reasons to use their guns like most would think.
[QUOTE=zydos;38888489]Honestly? Ban all guns. People don't need guns. Face it. Why do you need something that fires a projectile at somebody with the soul purpose of killing? We don't even need to hunt anymore in the first world, unless you live in the bush and physically can not get to a store to buy food. Even then, use a bow, traps, anything. Intruder in your house? Get a baseball bat, a big knife, anything but a killing machine. You should never have to kill anybody, just incapacitate them. All these people in the US with assault rifles and handguns and shit are only housing them so they can kill people that try to break in, or kill other people they dislike for any number of reasons. Hit the fucker in the face with a crowbar, I don't care, you shouldn't ever have to blow somebody's brains out. Love, a Canadian who thinks guns are useless in the real world[/QUOTE] Honestly, trying to enforce a ban on all guns would be opening pandoras box. You think this shooting is bad? There are as many as 60,000 citizens belonging to nearly a hundred different militia groups in the US, and at least a handfull of these are right wing nationalists who [I]will[/I] fight back. We'd have more Ruby Ridges, more Waco Sieges, more Oklahoma City bombings. It'd be a law enforcement nightmare, we may even need the assistance of the national guard. Plus then there are the non-militia members who will resist as well. In the end, it's also political suicide. Any politician that would help pass a total gun ban might as well say "Fuck your amendments, I do as I please", and that does [I]not[/I] go over well with people in this country.
[QUOTE=Ownederd;38888512]get rid of the culture of fear in the US and people will hopefully cease gathering excessive firearms against an non-existent threat where to start? improve the social conditions, one piece at a time[/QUOTE] It's not really a fear issue when it comes to firearms. Most people have guns for hobby sport shooting as well as home defense.
If you think the War on Drugs was a failure, think of how well a "War on Guns" will go down.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;38888576]If you think the War on Drugs was a failure, think of how well a "War on Guns" will go down.[/QUOTE] People tend to forget the age old quote, "If we don't study history then we're bound to repeat it." Look at what Alcohol prohibition did, then Drug prohibition; I can only imagine the damage that gun prohibition would cause. The fact of the matter is we need to evaluate our current mental health services in this country. We could ban all guns, but if someone has a few screws loose and has the intent to kill what stops them from using another means? What prevents them from taking the time to gather materials and make a bomb out of simple things that could be found around any hardware/farm supply store? (Such as with the OK city bombings) Killing people isn't hard; humans are masters of finding ways to do it. Give an insane person hours of solitude in their own world and they can come up with some pretty devastating things.
[QUOTE=zydos;38888489]Honestly? Ban all guns. People don't need guns. Face it. Why do you need something that fires a projectile at somebody with the soul purpose of killing? We don't even need to hunt anymore in the first world, unless you live in the bush and physically can not get to a store to buy food. Even then, use a bow, traps, anything. Intruder in your house? Get a baseball bat, a big knife, anything but a killing machine. You should never have to kill anybody, just incapacitate them. All these people in the US with assault rifles and handguns and shit are only housing them so they can kill people that try to break in, or kill other people they dislike for any number of reasons. Hit the fucker in the face with a crowbar, I don't care, you shouldn't ever have to blow somebody's brains out. Love, a Canadian who thinks guns are useless in the real world[/QUOTE] Uh you do realize that people can die from baseball bats, knives, and crowbars right? And that people can survive gun shot wounds even to the head? And there are other uses for guns, I own a single handgun that I use for recreational purposes. I highly doubt anyone will ever invade my home and I didn't buy it for that. I have my handgun for target shooting and because it is my favorite handgun as it is aesthetically pleasing and it fits with my interests of the cold war and video games. Just because I own a gun doesn't mean I want to use it on a living thing.
Everyone who questions why gun ownership should watch X4CTO's video on why he carries a gun because it's the same exact reasons as to why I want to carry. I'm subscribed to his channel already because he has a lot of informed opinions on self defense and such. Watch all of it and let me know what you think. [video=youtube;3tIcT-cpAfo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tIcT-cpAfo&feature=share&list=PL855F7E54437EF510[/video]
I can understand how some Americans could see this as horrible as they've never lived life without guns close by, but for me, growing up in a gun-lacking society(Australia), I don't see why guns are really needed in day to day life.
[QUOTE=nick_9_8;38888822]I can understand how some Americans could see this as horrible as they've never lived life without guns close by, but for me, growing up in a gun-lacking society(Australia), I don't see why guns are really needed in day to day life.[/QUOTE] australia is loaded with guns you goof [editline]19th December 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Bredirish123;38888811]Everyone who questions why gun ownership should watch X4CTO's video on why he carries a gun because it's the same exact reasons as to why I want to carry. I'm subscribed to his channel already because he has a lot of informed opinions on self defense and such. Watch all of it and let me know what you think. [video=youtube;3tIcT-cpAfo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tIcT-cpAfo&feature=share&list=PL855F7E54437EF510[/video][/QUOTE] same reason I carry a gun
[QUOTE=Bredirish123;38888572]It's not really a fear issue when it comes to firearms. Most people have guns for hobby sport shooting as well as home defense.[/QUOTE] tell me why there isn't any culture of fear or militant xenophobia against certain nations or minorities (e.g. middle east) in pockets of the US
*snop* [highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Gimmick" - Megafan))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Ownederd;38888874]tell me why there isn't any culture of fear or militant xenophobia against certain nations or minorities (e.g. middle east) in pockets of the US[/QUOTE] That has nothing to do with general gun owners. I don't see the point you're making. What, because there are people who are prejudice that means they're automatically gun owners who want to go shoot brown people?
[QUOTE=Ownederd;38888512]get rid of the culture of fear in the US and people will hopefully cease gathering excessive firearms against an non-existent threat where to start? improve the social conditions, one piece at a time[/QUOTE] That will never work. First of all, its in our constitution that we be able to bear arms. To allow politicians to violate that would just open up a path for them to infringe on other constitutional entitlements as well. Second, its not about preparing for a "non-existant threat" (I would rather call it a "potential but unlikely threat") but some people have guns as hobbies, enjoy working with them, or like the feeling of competing in sharpshooting competitions with them. On a side note, one of my favorite quotes from Family Guy is: "We don't need guns! We need food and water!" "Yea, guns only mean trouble!" Peter: "But when that trouble comes we'll be ready to bust a cap into its ass."
[QUOTE=Bredirish123;38888900]That has nothing to do with general gun owners. I don't see the point you're making. What, because there are people who are prejudice that means they're automatically gun owners who want to go shoot brown people?[/QUOTE] the social atmosphere in the US is a part of why the gun culture in the US is questionable - there are factors in it that stem off to xenophobia and fear against silly things
[QUOTE=Ownederd;38888906]the social atmosphere in the US is a part of why the gun culture in the US is questionable - there are factors in it that stem off to xenophobia and fear against silly things[/QUOTE] Keep in mind that xenophobic white people are not the only ones who own guns. Just saying. In fact I think it'd be fair to say that that is a minority in the gun-owning demographic.
[QUOTE=Lobotmik;38888931]Keep in mind that xenophobic white people are not the only ones who own guns. Just saying.[/QUOTE] uhm, thank you for sharing the obvious? [B]edit:[/B] [url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/23/AR2007032301613.html[/url]
Didn`t read the whole thread ,but why do americans need to OWN every gun they use? Do you realy need assault rifles and multiple pistols at home to defend yourself? If you love to shoot guns ,there`s places to go rent and shoot. I can understand collectors ,but for the average american to own so many guns is just ludacris. Im norwegian and the only time i have ever seen or used guns was in the military. We`ve had only one mass murderer that i remember. Of course there`s a lot more people in the US ,but still.
[QUOTE=Alan Ninja!;38881071]Welp, looks like I'll be using my Christmas money to buy some cool looking guns before it's too late.[/QUOTE] More like MENACING looking assault weapons, you sick baby-killing bastard No doubt they'll have high capacity clips and flipping shoulder butts
[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;38888031]rumor has it that it'll be much stricter and that the grandfather clause will be eliminated, which would make me and millions of other Americans felons overnight[/QUOTE] I'm still waiting on the source. If you seriously think the Republicans would let a piece of legislation like that pass uncontested you are mad.
[QUOTE=Bredirish123;38888603]People tend to forget the age old quote, "If we don't study history then we're bound to repeat it." Look at what Alcohol prohibition did, then Drug prohibition; I can only imagine the damage that gun prohibition would cause.[/QUOTE] yes you're absolutely correct. if you study the history of gun control in other countries, you'll see that it works.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;38889630]yes you're absolutely correct. if you study the history of gun control in other countries, you'll see that it works.[/QUOTE] Except this propose legislation's history has shown it did nothing to stop gun violence the first time around, since the majority of violence with firearms in the USA has nothing to do with ~scary~ "assault weapons".
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.