• Obama to ban assault weapons.
    1,785 replies, posted
[QUOTE=hexpunK;38922495]Hey. Just thought I could come through and point something out. Countries with massive restrictions of firearms, like, oh say, the UK, where I live, have no problems with firearms being used constantly. Sure, criminals can still get their hands on things like pistols, but it isn't massively easy, and you'd only really see guys who really mean business with them. Your average mugger and trespasser won't tend to carry anything more than a knife. If your gun laws are implemented well, and existings guns are cleaned up properly, the laws can work. Don't assume that just because you can't get your guns, every criminal is going to suddenly have one. That isn't how it works. Obviously this won't be as easy in the US due to your massive gun culture, and the fact you have a large population of paranoid, conspiracy theorising, gun toting nuts who think the government is out to get them 24/7. Getting all the weapons out of the US isn't a feasable task. The argument "But how will I defend myself" is flawed anyway. You only need a gun to defend yourself because they are easy enough to get your hands on. Plus it's better to give up and not get your dumb ass shot than attempt to figh back just because you have a gun. Possessions are replaceable. You life? Not as much. Guns as a hobby is fine though. [editline]21st December 2012[/editline] Wow the keyboard on this phone is shit.[/QUOTE] Actually we only need guns to defend ourselves because there are some batshit crazy people who want to hurt us. If someone breaks into my house with a gun, I'll get my own gun and scare him off (not shoot him, unless he becomes a legitimate threat to my life). If someone breaks into my house with a fire ax, I'm not gonna ignore my gun because he doesn't have one. He's arguably more dangerous. I am [i]not[/i] about to rely on the police to save my hide from some loon with an ax, I'm gonna do it myself. I'll either subdue him or scare him off; the police can offer their own assistance when they show up.
[QUOTE='Rain [Amber];38920961']Maybe I'm just this way cause I was born and raised here, but I'm thankful to live in a country where it's a lot more difficult to acquire a gun. People say "Oh criminals will just obtain them illegally!" but the amount of shootings is still a fuckload less. Would prefer one innocent person get shot cause a criminal went to the effort to get a gun than a million people get shot just so there's maybe a chance someone can say "I had a gun too and I shot the criminal back!" (Obviously not real figures before someone bitches)[/QUOTE] It has been said countless times. You cannot focus on shootings exclusively in your analysis. To do so is to use your premise as your conclusion, and beg the question.
[QUOTE=Ybbats;38923000]That's completely beside the point. If people feel more safe with a weapon knowing they can defend themselves, who the fuck are you to tell them "You can't, it's not safe." If banning guns is the solution to all violence in the world then people wouldn't be using them in places where they've been outlawed. BUT THEY ARE. You're reaction is basically "But it happens less though, that means we're all safer." It's not really safer for the victims of these gun crimes who have literally no way of defending themselves, is it? And then again, when faced with reality, your reaction is "Who cares about the few people who these things happen to. It's all for the greater good."[/QUOTE] "For the greater good" is a pretty acceptable viewpoint in this situation. And again, I brought up that some people will still get their hands on a firearm. But that number is dramatically lower, in my 19 years on this planet, I have only ever come across a few shotguns (hunting, legal) and one semi-auto shotgun (totally not legal now that I think about it), a few air guns, and that's it really. This is hardly a cause for concern, this is one guy out of the hundreds I know well. Owning guns for "self defence" relies on one thing, MAD, you and your possible assailants are relying on the fact that either one of you doesn't have a gun, or one of you is crazy enough to actually end somebodies life over something as simple as taking possessions. It's not a good mindset. Plus, as you have access to guns, people who are serious about their crimes are going to up their game, getting bigger guns, more effective guns, in the case of a few robberies, wearing armour to stop civilian handgun rounds (didn't do well anyway, but they brought armour). With guns outlawed I have little chance of actually getting to fire a gun, look at the mechanics of a working one, something I really would like to do at some point in my life, as pieces of machinery they interest the hell out of me. But if my inability to do this, means that for the most part I will only be mugged or robbed by people using knives and blunt objects? Well, I don't mind too much, I can escape a knife or bat a lot easier than a gun. I can fight off a mugger with a knife a lot easier than a mugger with a gun. Obviously my viewpoint in the whole thing is pretty much polar opposite of most people in the States, because we just don't have a gun culture in the UK. But that doesn't mean it's invalid at all.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;38922495]Hey. Just thought I could come through and point something out. Countries with massive restrictions of firearms, like, oh say, the UK, where I live, have no problems with firearms being used constantly. Sure, criminals can still get their hands on things like pistols, but it isn't massively easy, and you'd only really see guys who really mean business with them. Your average mugger and trespasser won't tend to carry anything more than a knife. If your gun laws are implemented well, and existings guns are cleaned up properly, the laws can work. Don't assume that just because you can't get your guns, every criminal is going to suddenly have one. That isn't how it works. Obviously this won't be as easy in the US due to your massive gun culture, and the fact you have a large population of paranoid, conspiracy theorising, gun toting nuts who think the government is out to get them 24/7. Getting all the weapons out of the US isn't a feasable task. The argument "But how will I defend myself" is flawed anyway. You only need a gun to defend yourself because they are easy enough to get your hands on. Plus it's better to give up and not get your dumb ass shot than attempt to figh back just because you have a gun. Possessions are replaceable. You life? Not as much. Guns as a hobby is fine though. [editline]21st December 2012[/editline] Wow the keyboard on this phone is shit.[/QUOTE] Except since 1997's handgun ban, firearms crime has gone up 98% in Britain, knife crime is up more than 300%, and Britain is actually the most violent country in all of Europe.
[QUOTE=Ekalektik_1;38923060]Actually we only need guns to defend ourselves because there are some batshit crazy people who want to hurt us. If someone breaks into my house with a gun, I'll get my own gun and scare him off (not shoot him, unless he becomes a legitimate threat to my life). If someone breaks into my house with a fire ax, I'm not gonna ignore my gun because he doesn't have one. He's arguably more dangerous. I am [i]not[/i] about to rely on the police to save my hide from some loon with an ax, I'm gonna do it myself. I'll either subdue him or scare him off; the police can offer their own assistance when they show up.[/QUOTE] I can kinda get why you'd want something with more omphh when your police forces are known to be horribly slow to respond or you are in a remote place (quite a few farmers use their shotguns for defence here, but they are in the middle of bumfuck nowhere).
[QUOTE=hexpunK;38923134]"For the greater good" is a pretty acceptable viewpoint in this situation. And again, I brought up that some people will still get their hands on a firearm. But that number is dramatically lower, in my 19 years on this planet, I have only ever come across a few shotguns (hunting, legal) and one semi-auto shotgun (totally not legal now that I think about it), a few air guns, and that's it really. This is hardly a cause for concern, this is one guy out of the hundreds I know well. Owning guns for "self defence" relies on one thing, MAD, you and your possible assailants are relying on the fact that either one of you doesn't have a gun, or one of you is crazy enough to actually end somebodies life over something as simple as taking possessions. It's not a good mindset. Plus, as you have access to guns, people who are serious about their crimes are going to up their game, getting bigger guns, more effective guns, in the case of a few robberies, wearing armour to stop civilian handgun rounds (didn't do well anyway, but they brought armour). With guns outlawed I have little chance of actually getting to fire a gun, look at the mechanics of a working one, something I really would like to do at some point in my life, as pieces of machinery they interest the hell out of me. But if my inability to do this, means that for the most part I will only be mugged or robbed by people using knives and blunt objects? Well, I don't mind too much, I can escape a knife or bat a lot easier than a gun. I can fight off a mugger with a knife a lot easier than a mugger with a gun. Obviously my viewpoint in the whole thing is pretty much polar opposite of most people in the States, because we just don't have a gun culture in the UK. But that doesn't mean it's invalid at all.[/QUOTE] The biggest thing with the self-defense issue that's being overlooked here is that a homeowner is not going to shoot someone for taking their TV. A responsible gun-wielding homeowner would only ever shoot someone if his life was in danger. If he turns his living room light on and the burglar suddenly turns on him with a knife, the homeowner ought to be able to save his life, shouldn't he? [editline]21st December 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=hexpunK;38923153]I can kinda get why you'd want something with more omphh when your police forces are known to be horribly slow to respond or you are in a remote place (quite a few farmers use their shotguns for defence here, but they are in the middle of bumfuck nowhere).[/QUOTE] Yeah, that's pretty much how it always is over here. Our police are not obligated to save our lives anyway, that's up to us.
[QUOTE=Ekalektik_1;38923192]The biggest thing with the self-defense issue that's being overlooked here is that a homeowner is not going to shoot someone for taking their TV. A responsible gun-wielding homeowner would only ever shoot someone if his life was in danger. If he turns his living room light on and the burglar suddenly turns on him with a knife, the homeowner ought to be able to save his life, shouldn't he? [editline]21st December 2012[/editline] Yeah, that's pretty much how it always is over here. Our police are not obligated to save our lives anyway, that's up to us.[/QUOTE] It may be where I'm getting a bad impression from most of the users on here, and the internet in general, but a lot of people are pretty insistent on just shooting trespassers. End of story. News articles obviously only focus on that because it's news, but it just gives a horrible impression that most gun owners in the States who are vocal about this subject are all fucking insane. Also seems kinda retarded that your police forces aren't obligated to save lives, seeing as their job is to protect people...they at least try I assume?
[QUOTE=hexpunK;38923232]It may be where I'm getting a bad impression from most of the users on here, and the internet in general, but a lot of people are pretty insistent on just shooting trespassers. End of story. News articles obviously only focus on that because it's news, but it just gives a horrible impression that most gun owners in the States who are vocal about this subject are all fucking insane. Also seems kinda retarded that your police forces aren't obligated to save lives, seeing as their job is to protect people...they at least try I assume?[/QUOTE] If a homeowner shoots a trespasser/burglar who is in the process of running away, he's now in far deeper shit than the burglar ever would have been. Even if you shoot someone who's brandishing an ax in your face, you need to be able to prove he was an active threat to your life. Basically, shooting someone is horrifying in pretty much every way and no rational person ever wants to do it. The idea behind using guns to deter burglars and home invaders is to subdue them or scare them off. If someone tells you they want to shoot a trespasser, they're either lying or crazy. The constitutional duty of the police, as stated by our supreme court, is to clean up after the crime. Under no circumstances are they obligated to save peoples' lives. Basically, the job of our police isn't to protect people. So, they'll shoot the lunatic with the knife if he tries to gut [i]them[/i], but he may already have murdered everyone in the house in the ten minutes it took the cops to arrive. Of course it's all down to individual discretion; yes they do try, no they aren't always successful, no they don't always try their hardest.
Well, so I overheard my dad talking to a family friend of ours last night turns out, my friend had tried to buy a rifle online but couldn't because they were (surprise surprise) [B][I]SOLD OUT.[/I][/B]
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;38918702]Conspiracy website, the article mentions mind control and implies JFK conspiracies.[/QUOTE] I bet I'm the only person in the universe who buys the lone gunman theory. I blame JFK Reloaded.
I'll be fine with this as long as it has an expiration date.
[QUOTE=credesniper;38924714]I'll be fine with this as long as it has an expiration date.[/QUOTE] But then they'll try to renew it btw nice avy; me gusta
This is the answer to our problems folks, yep, this will magically get rid of all the millions upon millions already circulating throughout the civilian population and cut gun crime drastically. Oh wait.
You Americans have thick skulls look at Canada we can only buy pistols and rifles and look how low murders are here! You'll never learn.
[QUOTE=coldroll5;38930633]You Americans have thick skulls look at Canada we can only buy pistols and rifles and look how low murders are here! You'll never learn.[/QUOTE] We're also different countries with different cultures and different people. If you think "ban guns" will be the end all solution to crime, it's you who has the thick skull.
[QUOTE=coldroll5;38930633]You Americans have thick skulls look at Canada we can only buy pistols and rifles and look how low murders are here! You'll never learn.[/QUOTE] :downs:
[QUOTE=Dav0r;38879450]Ban all guns.[/QUOTE] Hi, I'm a hunter in possession of my very own hunting rifle, with a family of hunters who do this every winter on our own plot of land and have all went through gun safety training. Why are you taking away my gun?
[QUOTE=coldroll5;38930633]You Americans have thick skulls look at Canada we can only buy pistols and rifles and look how low murders are here! You'll never learn.[/QUOTE] So what? shotguns cause murders? but all those people in mass shootings have used pistols and rifles so your point is moot.
[QUOTE=coldroll5;38930633]You Americans have thick skulls look at Canada we can only buy pistols and rifles and look how low murders are here! You'll never learn.[/QUOTE] Is this sarcastic? We have a fucking ban list that actually says "All AK-47 type rifles" yet lets rifles like the TAR-21 and CZ. 58 through with no issues. Basically, all scary guns banned.
[QUOTE=laserguided;38935310]Is this sarcastic? We have a fucking ban list that actually says "All AK-47 type rifles" yet lets rifles like the TAR-21 and CZ. 58 through with no issues. Basically, all scary guns banned.[/QUOTE] While I agree that coldroll5's post was dumb, Isn't it that you ARE allowed to own AKs? I just shot a longbarrel AK a year ago.
[QUOTE=BFG9000;38924655]Well, so I overheard my dad talking to a family friend of ours last night turns out, my friend had tried to buy a rifle online but couldn't because they were (surprise surprise) [B][I]SOLD OUT.[/I][/B][/QUOTE] One thing I don't understand about this panic buying, if the law does pass, won't all these newly bought ARs and AKs be completely useless as it would be illegal to set so much as a foot outside with them?
[QUOTE=nox;38937318]One thing I don't understand about this panic buying, if the law does pass, won't all these newly bought ARs and AKs be completely useless as it would be illegal to set so much as a foot outside with them?[/QUOTE] All weapons purchased before the ban will be legal, aka Grandfather Clause.
What if secretly Obama used to work in the firearm industry and he is being subsidized by major gun companies to pretend like he wants to pass a gun control law but then not in order to boost gun sales? It would also explain why the NRA didn't do much in response to the shooting. Maybe they got wind of it. /stupidconspiracythat'stotalbullshit
[QUOTE=BFG9000;38937387]What if secretly Obama used to work in the firearm industry and he is being subsidized by major gun companies to pretend like he wants to pass a gun control law but then not in order to boost gun sales? It would also explain why the NRA didn't do much in response to the shooting. Maybe they got wind of it. /stupidconspiracythat'stotalbullshit[/QUOTE] Is it bad that I wouldn't be surprised by that? I mean honestly, that would be an pretty perfect way to get people to buy things, so that the economy keeps rolling.
[QUOTE=BFG9000;38937387]What if secretly Obama used to work in the firearm industry and he is being subsidized by major gun companies to pretend like he wants to pass a gun control law but then not in order to boost gun sales? It would also explain why the NRA didn't do much in response to the shooting. Maybe they got wind of it. /stupidconspiracythat'stotalbullshit[/QUOTE] Highly unlikely, but everything is possible I suppose. NRA has been quiet out of respect for the victims.
[QUOTE=BFG9000;38937387]What if secretly Obama used to work in the firearm industry and he is being subsidized by major gun companies to pretend like he wants to pass a gun control law but then not in order to boost gun sales? It would also explain why the NRA didn't do much in response to the shooting. Maybe they got wind of it. /stupidconspiracythat'stotalbullshit[/QUOTE] Still better than an arbitrary ban
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;38937357]All weapons purchased before the ban will be legal, aka Grandfather Clause.[/QUOTE] It pretty much flies in the face of the constitution to not grandfather stuff like this in.
With the way the world is screwed up right now I wouldn't be surprised by anything.
[QUOTE=coldroll5;38930633]You Americans have thick skulls look at Canada we can only buy pistols and rifles and look how low murders are here! You'll never learn.[/QUOTE] Legal in Canada, illegal in US: [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/sMb7s.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/IXrQml.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Ridge;38941384]Legal in Canada, illegal in US: [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/sMb7s.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/IXrQml.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] Dont forget the Tavor!
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