• David Cameron: 'Don’t complain about welfare cuts, go and find work'
    217 replies, posted
Maybe if Thatcher didn't sell off loads of industrial stuff in the 80s we wouldn't be in such a mess.
[QUOTE=Contag;34385875]WISH I COULD BE AS COOL AS YOU[/QUOTE] so looks like having complete disregard about politics makes you cool nowaday huh well, atleast you can put an awesome beard on your face, guess that's cool as me.
[QUOTE=Jsm;34385608] Fair play, but I think people are more likely to admit to those than they are to admit to intending to live off of benefits for life.[/QUOTE] Maybe, but who really cares if a few people manage to exploit the system when "overhauling" it to fix those exploits (scare quotes because welfare overhaul usually = welfare cut, especially when Cameron comes right out and says welfare cut) would result in thousands of people in legitimate need starving or becoming homeless
[QUOTE=AngryChairR;34380453][url]http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd1/hb_ctb/recoveries_and_fraud_data/hbrf_fr_aug11.pdf[/url] [url]http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd2/index.php?page=fraud_error[/url] Feel free to browse around that site and find statistics yourself. There's plenty of it. Idiot.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]For 2010/11, it is estimated that [B]2.1 per cent of total benefit expenditure was overpaid due to fraud and error.[/B][/QUOTE] [I]A WHOLE 2.1%?![/I] My God, man, what are you waiting for? That type of systematic benefit abuse cannot be stood for! In any [I]reasonable[/I] country you'd have started gassing the bastards already.
[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;34386448][I]A WHOLE 2.1%?![/I] My God, man, what are you waiting for? That type of systematic benefit abuse cannot be stood for! In any [I]reasonable[/I] country you'd have started gassing the bastards already.[/QUOTE] Again, it's relatively the same percentage as US unemployment insurance: 2%. How uncanny. [editline]25th January 2012[/editline] According to the Dept. of Labour, the annual UI payout in 2010 was 15.4 Billion, and the amount overpaid that was attributed to fraud was about 4 Billion dollars. That amounts to around 4%. I was off on my numbers a bit, but this time it's correct.
[QUOTE=Mort and Charon;34378689]Been looking for a part-time job in any unskilled job that would take me for months. Had about 2 actual replies (saying sorry we're not hiring or you don't have enough experience) out of about 20 applications... its bloody annoying.[/QUOTE] Sorry to sound a dick but...you've been trying for months but only handled 20 applications?
[QUOTE=AngryChairR;34379496]Everybody knows Obama you should know David Cameron, I'm not cluttering up a title to excuse your ignorance.[/QUOTE] In fairness, Obama isn't a "[US]" tag either and those people should be putting it in the title. The reason we enacted this rule (I'm pretty sure this was a rule a long time ago) was because of people posting governmentally specific threads without specifying which government it was, and causing a lot of people to worry when they shouldn't. Like what happened here.
If you can't get a job, you should be creating something of value. You should be learning skills (to make yourself attractive to employers), or attempting to set up your own business. Anyone who doesn't do this should have their benefits cut down to a level where they are at/below the poverty line, and cant afford internet or tv. It's all very well saying "there aren't any jobs". But who do you think employs people? Yep, other people. If all of us hard working people (who pay for you to sit around watching daytime tv) just decided one day that we couldn't be arsed to go to work, and would go on benefits instead, the country would grind to a halt.
[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;34386075]so looks like having complete disregard about politics makes you cool nowaday huh well, atleast you can put an awesome beard on your face, guess that's cool as me.[/QUOTE] So you came into a political section to announce to everyone that are apathetic about politics?
[QUOTE=codemaster85;34381026]I thought angrychair was gone forever when he was permabanned, I wish swebonny didn't unban him. I mean dear god look at his ban record. All he does is troll people and piss them off with topics he doesn't know about. Like how he thinks that all unemployed people are abusing the system and love it, that is just begging to start some shit.[/QUOTE] People [b]don't need[/b] more than £240/week. If I had my way, I would limit total benefits to £240 + an additional £55 per dependant person. So, a family of man, his wife, two kids, would get no more than £405/week; or £21k a year. No more is needed and no more should be given. Proof should be given that all people capable of working are attempting to find work, and that people who are not capable of work should be medically examined once every 6 months to ensure they are not capable of work; otherwise no benefits. [editline].[/editline] [QUOTE=thisispain;34381619]of course, don't want to slack all the way through year 6[/QUOTE] Why are you even here? What point are you trying to make? All you ever do is spew some nonsensical left-wing bullshit and then demean anyone disagreeing with you.
[QUOTE=Tolyzor;34387119] You should be learning skills (to make yourself attractive to employers), or attempting to set up your own business. Anyone who doesn't do this should have their benefits cut down to a level where they are at/below the poverty line, and cant afford internet or tv.[/quote] Like every recession problem recruiters don't want people without experience and the longer you're out of a job the harder it is to get back in.
Our benifit system is a bloody shambles that NEEDS to be overhaul'd i know genuine disabled people that get nothing from he state at all and are expected to work (realisticly neither can work let alone pass an interview). yet billy the pikey across the road claims his back hurts and gets everything for him and his 8 chavy sprogs while covertly building an extension for his council house. I wish i was over dramatising that but i see this shit everyday. But that's for another subject. For everyone out there saying just get a job and stop moaning. It's not a case of lowering your standard or expectations when looking for work, there just is not enough to go around, and every year when schools kick out yet another batch of hopefulls they just add to the unemployed, the government wants us to work longer to get a pension so you have people aged 60+ also competing for these jobs,both ends of the spectrum all going to stack fucking shelves at tesco, Serving behind a counter at maccy D's or collecting trollies in carpark a whole manner of other shit bog standard jobs that everyone of ANY age is more than quallified to do. Simply put getting a job now it is just a game of chance (you can improve your chances every so slightly i will conceed that). 25 years ago you could quiet litterally walk out of one job and straight into another on the same day with fuck all agro. Now it is very much an employers market, they can pick and chooose who they want and by pick and choose i mean and this is stupidly true, what football team you support. There is no damn fix short of exponging the population (No im not seriously suggesting it). I am lucky cause i do have a job all because i supported the right team, but Dave's ignorance just winds me up as he has no fucking idea what it's really like to be stuck in limbo when you try your best to get out of it. Also his over great idea not so long ago was that people should work for FREE at community shops, because thats gonna pay bills isnt it Dave.
[QUOTE=Vasili;34387178]Like every recession problem recruiters don't want people without experience and the longer you're out of a job the harder it is to get back in.[/QUOTE] This is true, which is why you need to be learning skills to make yourself more attractive to employers. This could be by doing unpaid work (something many graduate students have to do), or by becoming more knowledgeable on a subject by researching it. Or, set up your own business (hell, try trading on ebay, anyone can do that). No experience is required when you are your own recruiter. There are plenty of jobs for those who really don't have any skills. Have any of you people having problems actually applied for factory work? If not, why the hell not?
[QUOTE=Tolyzor;34387296]This is true, which is why you need to be learning skills to make yourself more attractive to employers. This could be by doing unpaid work (something many graduate students have to do), or by becoming more knowledgeable on a subject by researching it. Or, set up your own business (hell, try trading on ebay, anyone can do that). No experience is required when you are your own recruiter. There are plenty of jobs for those who really don't have any skills. Have any of you people having problems actually applied for factory work? If not, why the hell not?[/QUOTE] And then when your draconian welfare system has left them without internet (and more than likely phone service as well), then they'll really be motivated to get skills and [I]not[/I] drink themselves to death! [editline]25th January 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Tolyzor;34387296]Or, set up your own business (hell, try trading on ebay, anyone can do that). No experience is required when you are your own recruiter.[/quote] Starting a business requires a fair bit of cash or a big loan, something most unemployed people don't have or can't risk. [QUOTE=Tolyzor;34387296]There are plenty of jobs for those who really don't have any skills. Have any of you people having problems actually applied for factory work? If not, why the hell not?[/QUOTE] A lot of developed countries have had their industrial sectors scaled back, and a lot of low-skill jobs are gone. [editline]25th January 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Bawbag;34387159][editline].[/editline] Why are you even here? What point are you trying to make? All you ever do is spew some nonsensical left-wing bullshit and then demean anyone disagreeing with you.[/QUOTE] He [I]dared[/I] to question his idiotic posts? Surely he's a left-wing crazy person!
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;34387353]He [I]dared[/I] to question his idiotic posts? Surely he's a left-wing crazy person![/QUOTE] He [b]always[/b] questions [b]sensible, necessary measures[/b] that are [b]slightly right wing[/b]. If he did it once or twice, I wouldn't call him out on it. He [b]always[/b] does this.
Here's a solution to the lack of low skilled jobs: Lower the minimum wage. If you (as an employee) are not worth £5/6 per hour, then obviously employers aren't going to employ you. Foreign outsourcing of unskilled labour would drastically drop as companies can afford to manufacture in the uk, and bingo, jobs for everyone. Now of course people getting paid very low wages are going to need some additional help from the state, but at least they are earning some of what they live off, and are also gaining skills, so can expect their wages to gradually increase.
[QUOTE=Bawbag;34387446]He [b]always[/b] questions [b]sensible, necessary measures[/b] that are [b]slightly right wing[/b]. If he did it once or twice, I wouldn't call him out on it. He [b]always[/b] does this.[/QUOTE] And how have you determined that they are necessary or sensible? We've looked at some statistics for benefits fraud, and it never exceeded 5% at worst. [editline]25th January 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Tolyzor;34387594]Here's a solution to the lack of low skilled jobs: Lower the minimum wage. If you (as an employee) are not worth £5/6 per hour, then obviously employers aren't going to employ you. Foreign outsourcing of unskilled labour would drastically drop as companies can afford to manufacture in the uk, and bingo, jobs for everyone. Now of course people getting paid very low wages are going to need some additional help from the state, but at least they are earning some of what they live off, and are also gaining skills, so can expect their wages to gradually increase.[/QUOTE] Gaining skills from jobs that do not require skill? You're aware that someone working a factory job at lowered minimum wage is not going to have the time or energy to be actively pursuing education, advanced training, or another career, right?
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;34387825]And how have you determined that they are necessary or sensible? We've looked at some statistics for benefits fraud, and it never exceeded 5% at worst.[/QUOTE] That's probably because people successfully defrauding benefits [b]haven't been caught[/b]. Do you really think you could get accurate statistics on fraud while only counting the people who have been caught? There [b]is[/b] a lot of scumbags ripping us off, (some could argue) ruining it for those who truly need it.
[QUOTE=Bawbag;34388214]That's probably because people successfully defrauding benefits [b]haven't been caught[/b]. Do you really think you could get accurate statistics on fraud while only counting the people who have been caught? There [b]is[/b] a lot of scumbags ripping us off, (some could argue) ruining it for those who truly need it.[/QUOTE] It's all a bit dubious if I'm honest, I've seen some news papers like The Times for example reporting on people who were given 6 bedroom houses due to having lots of children, and then other news papers like the Independent saying it's not the case so I'm a bit torn on what to believe.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;34388260]It's all a bit dubious if I'm honest, I've seen some news papers like The Times for example reporting on people who were given 6 bedroom houses due to having lots of children, and then other news papers like the Independent saying it's not the case so I'm a bit torn on what to believe.[/QUOTE] Ultimately regardless of the situation we can't allow 5 children to become homeless (Though personally I'd be tempted to review each application case-by-case, and consider putting the children into care; rather than expecting an employed family who clearly have their priorities wrong by the time they have 5 kids without an income - to take care of them). However; there's people claiming their elderly granny can't walk and they'll drive her everywhere, so as they get mobility benefits. Do they ever drive her anywhere? No. It's people like that that then also claim housing benefit when they don't really need it (They could still live with a relative); so on so forth. People abuse it to the hilt, and it really does need cut down on.
[QUOTE=Bawbag;34388289]Ultimately regardless of the situation we can't allow 5 children to become homeless (Though personally I'd be tempted to review each application case-by-case, and consider putting the children into care; rather than expecting an employed family who clearly have their priorities wrong by the time they have 5 kids without an income - to take care of them). However; there's people claiming their elderly granny can't walk and they'll drive her everywhere, so as they get mobility benefits. Do they ever drive her anywhere? No. It's people like that that then also claim housing benefit when they don't really need it (They could still live with a relative); so on so forth. People abuse it to the hilt, and it really does need cut down on.[/QUOTE] I think they need to do more checks on people in regards to disability benefits, get at least two doctors opinions on the persons situation before they can get the benefits. Also they aren't exactly taking away people benefits, they're just lowering the amount you can get per year, and £26,000 doesn't sound too bad if I'm honest.
[QUOTE=AngryChairR;34376994] I don't understand how people can criticise David so much, he's entirely correct with everything he said. People need to get jobs.[/QUOTE] for some it's a little more difficult that being born into a rich family and being sent to mingle with the eton elite
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;34388329]I think they need to do more checks on people in regards to disability benefits, get at least two doctors opinions on the persons situation before they can get the benefits. Also they aren't exactly taking away people benefits, they're just lowering the amount you can get per year, and £26,000 doesn't sound too bad if I'm honest.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I think it's perfectly reasonable. I calculated earlier that the minimum you could expect a family of four to survive on was £400 a week, or just over £20,000 a year. The £26k cap (in my view) is generous. [QUOTE=joe588;34388339]for some it's a little more difficult that being born into a rich family and being sent to mingle with the eton elite[/QUOTE] I was born into a middle class family, wasn't sent anywhere, and I'm doing perfectly fine. Effort and a little bit of thinking is all you really need.
[QUOTE=Bawbag;34388345]Yeah, I think it's perfectly reasonable. I calculated earlier that the minimum you could expect a family of four to survive on was £400 a week, or just over £20,000 a year. The £26k cap (in my view) is generous.[/QUOTE] It's probably a lot more than what I'll be earning until I'm in my 30's.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;34388366]It's probably a lot more than what I'll be earning until I'm in my 30's.[/QUOTE] For me, it'll be the luck of the draw. When I graduate, based on statistics of my university and course, I have an 86% chance of being employed in the field. The field, entry pay (full time) ranges from £16k to £28k, so with any luck I will be on the higher end of that, and then will be able to pay off my £12k loan; plus any overdrafts/etc I pick up on the way within the first few years of my career.
[QUOTE=Bawbag;34388345]I was born into a middle class family[/QUOTE] thug lyfe
[QUOTE=Bawbag;34388393]For me, it'll be the luck of the draw. When I graduate, based on statistics of my university and course, I have an 86% chance of being employed in the field. The field, entry pay (full time) ranges from £16k to £28k, so with any luck I will be on the higher end of that, and then will be able to pay off my £12k loan; plus any overdrafts/etc I pick up on the way within the first few years of my career.[/QUOTE] Since I'm going to skip university (since it costs far too much) I hopefully won't have any debts to deal with for a while, if I manage to get into a job as an accountant after I finish my courses in that (which chances are I won't straight away) I would probably only get about £15,000 starting out, although since I'll probably be stuck with a lower paying job it'll probably be significantly less than that, so if I'm honest I'd be happy to get £26,000 a year, although you probably wouldn't be able to get that unless you had a load of children. They do need to combat child farming though, it's a bit ridiculous.
[QUOTE=Bawbag;34388345]I was born into a middle class family, wasn't sent anywhere, and I'm doing perfectly fine. Effort and a little bit of thinking is all you really need.[/QUOTE] So basically you're saying the only reason anyone (at least in the UK) is unemployed is because they aren't trying hard enough or aren't thinking enough?
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;34388596]So basically you're saying the only reason anyone (at least in the UK) is unemployed is because they aren't trying hard enough or aren't thinking enough?[/QUOTE] yes. You can be self employed, you know? [editline]25th January 2012[/editline] If there's no jobs in your area, make one. There's even grants for starting a small business.. and it only takes ~£130/m to start up a small webhost/VPS provider - so if you put in the time and effort to learn how to be one, you can.
[QUOTE=Bawbag;34388642]yes. You can be self employed, you know? [editline]25th January 2012[/editline] If there's no jobs in your area, make one.[/QUOTE] Not always that easy to be honest, starting a decent business usually requires a lot of money and skill that a lot of people just don't have.
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