David Cameron: 'Don’t complain about welfare cuts, go and find work'
217 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;34392983]The idea that any unemployed person has access to training for running a business, let alone setting one up that can make money, is preposterous.[/QUOTE]
Not to mention that a large amount of small businesses fail within the first 9 months as well.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;34393025]It takes a lot to start a successful business, especially in a recession, I think it's fairly unfair to expect everyone to have the same ability.
A major part of the problem has been caused by Cameron cutting all the jobs in the public sector, shoving people out of work. I don't really blame those who are on unemployment benefits, but I do think there needs to be a cap on the amount of money you can be given, just not in the way the Tories are doing it.[/QUOTE]
There should be a reasonable cap, but it shouldn't be 26k for a family of four. I don't know a single person who could maintain a family on that.
If the situation were, say, a mother with 4 kids, after the husband divorced her, both without jobs, and the mother was getting benefits while unemployed, there's no way she and those kids could survive on 26k a year. Would you recommend she put one of her kids up for adoption, or just give her more benefits?
[editline]25th January 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Contag;34393030]The thing is that with the internet and libraries, there is a wealth of information available, and the internet allows people to trade with significantly reduced overhead costs.
Just look at etsy.com as an example of a decentralized neo-cottage industry[/QUOTE]
Even if you can get the information, it's still by no means easy.
[QUOTE=markg06;34393053]Not to mention that a large amount of small businesses fail within the first 9 months as well.[/QUOTE]
It takes upwards of five years for a business to reach it's potential profitability, and if you jump in headfirst failure is almost an inevitability, which I why I believe welfare and subsided education is necessarily and important.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;34377235]In order to be looking at it like this I need to first assume that welfare provides enough money to live [I]comfortably,[/I] which is false. Second, I'd have to know roughly how many people are supposedly 'cheating the system'. I'm talking percentages here.[/QUOTE]
The Government is proposing a cap on benefits of £26,000, though bishops in the House of Lords have added an amendment that exempts child benefits from that tax.
The average wage in the UK is [url=http://career-advice.monster.co.uk/salary-benefits/pay-salary-advice/uk-average-salary-graphs/article.aspx]£27,500[/url]. After tax, this is £23,200 (tax is not paid on benefits).
[QUOTE=Bawbag;34393041]Where do you think all small webhosting business originally came from?
Brohoster: Created by JWJ, he didn't have much spare cash flying about
FanaticalVPS: Created by Fizzadar. Full time student, hence not much spare cash.
etc.[/QUOTE]
compare that to all the small webhosting businesses that failed.
also brohoster ended in disaster.
[QUOTE=Bawbag;34393041]Where do you think all small webhosting business originally came from?
Brohoster: Created by JWJ, he didn't have much spare cash flying about
FanaticalVPS: Created by Fizzadar. Full time student, hence not much spare cash.
etc.[/QUOTE]
Were they unemployed or in dire financial straits? And no, being a student is not the same as being unemployed.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;34393062]If the situation were, say, a mother with 4 kids, after the husband divorced her, both without jobs, and the mother was getting benefits while unemployed, there's no way she and those kids could survive on 26k a year. Would you recommend she put one of her kids up for adoption, or just give her more benefits?[/QUOTE]
By my estimates, £22080 a year would be enough for them to live on. Not live well; but are you looking for providing steak-dinners for every unemployed person?
[QUOTE=thisispain;34393093]compare that to all the small webhosting businesses that failed.
also brohoster ended in disaster.[/QUOTE]
Brohoster wasn't a disaster until JWJ sold out to MattR.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;34393101]Were they unemployed or in dire financial straits? And no, being a student is not the same as being unemployed.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't know. But if you were, there are grants you could apply for; that if your business plan was good enough, you would get.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;34393062]There should be a reasonable cap, but it shouldn't be 26k for a family of four. I don't know a single person who could maintain a family on that.
If the situation were, say, a mother with 4 kids, after the husband divorced her, both without jobs, and the mother was getting benefits while unemployed, there's no way she and those kids could survive on 26k a year. Would you recommend she put one of her kids up for adoption, or just give her more benefits?
[editline]25th January 2012[/editline]
Even if you can get the information, it's still by no means easy.[/QUOTE]
It works out at about £5200 per head, which doesn't sound too bad, if you forgo a few luxuries.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;34393124]It works out at about £5200 per head, which doesn't sound too bad, if you forgo a few luxuries.[/QUOTE]
It is per year, though.
[editline]25th January 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Bawbag;34393106]By my estimates, £22080 a year would be enough for them to live on. Not live well; but are you looking for providing steak-dinners for every unemployed person?[/QUOTE]
Of course I'm not saying they need steak dinners every night, but what do you mean 'by my estimates' they can survive on 22k a year? Are you an economist?
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;34393136]It is per year, though.[/QUOTE]
I currently live on £8600 a year, £5900 of which is accommodation. I could live on a lot less. I would be able to get by on £7400 if I were so inclined. Seen as the family would share accommodation (The cost would be higher than mine for accommodation); it leaves enough to survive on. I can't say it would be enjoyable ("Value" brand food, etc) but it would be a life.
[QUOTE=Bawbag;34393106]
I wouldn't know. But if you were, there are grants you could apply for; that if your business plan was good enough, you would get.[/QUOTE]
If your business plan hinges on grants for success, it's probably not a good business plan.
[QUOTE=Bawbag;34393106]By my estimates, £22080 a year would be enough for them to live on. Not live well; but are you looking for providing steak-dinners for every unemployed person?[/QUOTE]
as much as a bother as it may be would you mind giving us a quick rundown of your calculations, so we can point out all the shit you probably forgot.
[QUOTE=Bawbag;34393167]I currently live on £8600 a year, £5900 of which is accommodation. I could live on a lot less. I would be able to get by on £7400 if I were so inclined. Seen as the family would share accommodation (The cost would be higher than mine for accommodation); it leaves enough to survive on. I can't say it would be enjoyable ("Value" brand food, etc) but it would be a life.[/QUOTE]
Give us a breakdown of that. What does that pay for?
[QUOTE=Contag;34393186]If your business plan hinges on grants for success, it's probably not a good business plan.[/QUOTE]
All businesses require startup funds.
[editline]25th January 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=notxmania;34393195]as much as a bother as it may be would you mind giving us a quick rundown of your calculations, so we can point out all the shit you probably forgot.[/QUOTE]
I calculate it based on my bank balance at the end of each month (Taking loan, income into account) and estimate on how much I spent on food (Around £300 a month) and then compare that to how much I spent on food in my first month of university (I which I budgeted to the max, just because I could)
In my first month I spent ~£140 on food, and £492 on rent (all bills inc.). This leaves a £40 window for misc shit per person.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;34393136]It is per year, though.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah but I'm fairly sure the accommodation and some other bills are payed for by the government, which means they would probably have a bit more to spare than the average person.
I should really sort out in finding a job, But it's just too fucking hard, there are usually none at all or some but in the wrong field and i have no interest in applying for them.
[QUOTE=gazzy_GUI;34393294]I should really sort out in finding a job, But it's just too fucking hard, there are usually none at all or some but in the wrong field and i have no interest in applying for them.[/QUOTE]
This is why I dread finishing my A levels, I just know this will be the same situation I'll end up in.
[QUOTE=Bawbag;34388214]That's probably because people successfully defrauding benefits [b]haven't been caught[/b]. Do you really think you could get accurate statistics on fraud while only counting the people who have been caught?
There [b]is[/b] a lot of scumbags ripping us off, (some could argue) ruining it for those who truly need it.[/QUOTE]
oi this sounds like nonsensical right wing bullshit
[QUOTE=gazzy_GUI;34393294]I should really sort out in finding a job, [B]But it's just too fucking hard[/B], there are usually none at all or some but in the wrong field and [B]i have no interest in applying for them.[/B][/QUOTE]
Nice attitude right there, I bet they'd love you in an interview with such an apathetic attitude.
Thanks for being honest though, because that's what everybody else that posted against me really thinks.
[editline]26th January 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lambeth;34394740]oi this sounds like nonsensical right wing bullshit[/QUOTE]
herp loony lefty
you can get fairly reliable estimates of people attempting to defraud the system
[QUOTE=Contag;34395382]you can get fairly reliable estimates of people attempting to defraud the system[/QUOTE]
No man see they shoot low because it wouldn't be fraud if you knew how to detect it.
Personally, I think the entire system is nothing [I]but[/I] fraud, that's how good those defrauding fuckers are.
[QUOTE=AngryChairR;34395326]herp loony lefty[/QUOTE]
I bite my thumb at you good sir, and demand thee remove thy insult from this page.
[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;34395546]No man see they shoot low because it wouldn't be fraud if you knew how to detect it.
Personally, I think the entire system is nothing [I]but[/I] fraud, that's how good those defrauding fuckers are.[/QUOTE]
decades of research in the field of statistics?
nah you're just a lefty loony from a lefty uni
[QUOTE=AngryChairR;34395326]Thanks for being honest though, because that's what everybody else that posted against me really thinks.[/QUOTE]
If it counts for anything I have a job and still think you're a moron
[editline]26th January 2012[/editline]
I like how despite there being numerous posts by people with difficulty finding jobs you latch onto the only one that supports your views about unemployed people
I run a SOHO and think you are an absolute idiot angrychair.
[editline]26th January 2012[/editline]
For the people in this thread thinking about applying for a job, think about outsourcing just like a real company!
You can pay people on odesk to collect job notices and write cover letters for far, far less than the minimum wage of any country.
[QUOTE=Contag;34395686]
You can pay people on odesk to collect job notices and write cover letters for far, far less than the minimum wage of any country.[/QUOTE]
HAHA you're telling unemployed people that have all the time in the world to pay somebody to write CV's for them? Surely this is in agreement that unemployed people are lazy.
You are beyond help
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;34393532]This is why I dread finishing my A levels, I just know this will be the same situation I'll end up in.[/QUOTE]
What gave some people the idea that life should give you a free pass and you could just coast the whole time?
Don't wait till you finish your A-Levels, start planning ahead NOW. Think about learning a trade; doing an apprenticeship or making connections with people who will employ you.
I've been looking for a job now for almost over a year, I've searched in no less than 3 separate counties, applied for countless positions and 2 months ago -finally- got somewhere, but then 1 week into training i 'failed' the probation period for shady reasons and was kicked back on JSA. So fuck you Cameron you ignorant cunt, Ill get a job when you start fucking supplying them.
Edit: on a further note, if you are planning on looking for work try a private agency, they actually try to help you unlike the useless twats at the Job center.
Edit edit: which is why I've re-applied for uni, i don't care if i have to pay back the loan for years to come, at least i have a better chance of a stable future.
itt angrychair thinks getting a job is easy and everyone else is just lazy and not trying.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.