• Why don't women become lorry drivers?
    57 replies, posted
There is a notion of "gendered jobs" that have sub conscious effects on people hiring for all jobs. So like even though no one wants to admit it, if both a woman and a man who are equally qualified apply for the same nurse position, there is a high chance the woman will get it because the nurse field is known as a woman's job. These stuff conscious inequalities then go on to discourage people of the opposite gender into trying to obtain a job of the wrong gender. That's why you don't see many female lorry drivers, male nannies, female coal miners, male nurses, etc. It's a pretty disheartening concept so it's nice to see people taking an active approach to degendering certain jobs.
[QUOTE=opaali;49196304]Usually does though[/QUOTE] It really doesn't though. Most truck drivers are either overweight or obese, have awful dietary habits and are sat in their cab for 80% of the day. Any loading/ unloading is done via forklifts, cranes, caddies, etc. very little actual manual labour is required. Tightening straps of covered loads uses mechanisms designed to be as effortless as possible for maximum effect because doing the opposite would be fucking dumb. Repair work is usually done by trained workshop engineers rather than the drivers themselves because otherwise it would be fucking dangerous. Haulage doesn't require brute strength.
Having done the warehouse end of the loading, no, truck drivers don't load shit. They may help you if they're really nice guys, but they really generally don't do shit. They sit in their cab, or they come inside and sit in a chair and wait for us. Though, I guess the Mcdonalds supply truck that keeps the McDicks around here stocked up, that driver does the unloading too, so that's a physical as fuck job.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49198179]Having done the warehouse end of the loading, no, truck drivers don't load shit. They may help you if they're really nice guys, but they really generally don't do shit. They sit in their cab, or they come inside and sit in a chair and wait for us. Though, I guess the Mcdonalds supply truck that keeps the McDicks around here stocked up, that driver does the unloading too, so that's a physical as fuck job.[/QUOTE] We loaded our truck at the warehouse but it isn't the norm. I'm not really sure what the arrangement was since it seemed like we were the only ones who did.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49198179]Having done the warehouse end of the loading, no, truck drivers don't load shit.[/QUOTE] All depends on both the company it's being brought to and the company that's delivering. I did some delivery stuff on a 38' flatbed cab for awhile, and sure as shit everyone expected me to unload anything that couldn't be unloaded with a forklift. But that's different from an actual 18-wheeler. When those rolled up into our shop, they would sometimes supervise or help with the loading, but we did the actual labor.
[QUOTE=viper shtf;49196749]Women barely even drive stickshift cars, why would they drive big rigs?[/QUOTE] the entire UK disagrees with you
[QUOTE=crazycory65;49196414]Same with men though how many male secretaries do you see?Job just kind of comes with the territory. Now I pass a truck stop every day for work and I see quite a bit of women in my fair share of time driving past it.[/QUOTE] Secretary is a bad word nowadays, it's "Administrative Assistant" now :v: And to answer your question, after more than a year working at 3M's hq campus, zero.
[QUOTE=greeley;49196693]Majority of women in this country are so privileged that all they want to do is moan about stupid shit saying that they are not equal but refuse to do the "male orientated" jobs that aren't in industry fields. You don't hear many women using the example "We want equality, we should be miners/factory workers/labourers" all the moan about in this country is "We should be executives, CEO's, Managers" of all incredibly high paying businesses. I remember this woman at my old job who was 100% #feminist (which was DEFINITELY more about women being higher than men and her hating men). She would moan constantly about being oppressed by the managers and that they don't treat her well because shes a "strong" woman and "they feel threatened" by her. But yet she refused to do any job that involved being outside, where typically the men would be doing it.... There was also another job that i was in temporarily where there was a group of women with a similar mindsets. About 5 -6 of them would moan that all the men in the office get the best jobs and they get all the crap jobs.... But the supervisors said that the reason they give the men in the office the good/big jobs is because they do actually work harder and complete it faster. The time i was there, my supervisor showed me the chart over the whole year where what people have called in sick for what reasons and stuff.... Those 5 women called in sick at least 4 times a month each with quite pathetic excuses (headaches, stress, colds). Where there was only 6 guys in the office and only 2 of them have been off sick twice with actual illnesses and still came back way earlier than they should have (one guy had a broken collarbone and another guy had the actual flu and got rushed to hospital because he couldn't breath) Obviously im not saying all women are like this. There are some hard workers out there. Its just been proven in my experience that a lot of men work harder than a lot of women. So good on to these women that are showing up the lazy asses out there.[/QUOTE] I think this whole post sums up everything that I dislike about either the general consensus or loud minority of this forum when it comes to the evil, man-hating feminists that people are so eager to find. By that I don't mean I agree with it, I mean it's fucking terrible. Stuff like "not saying this about all women but in my personal experience, they're generally harder-working than men" ("so clearly feminists are wrong because men do all the hard work"). How do even you say something like this and not see the ridiculousness of it? The whole argument along the lines of "men do hard shit like mining and manual labour yet feminists don't seem to want that" is bollocks. When have you even seen a feminist say women shouldn't do those jobs? You haven't, you just want to believe that that's the feminist ideology because it places them in an easily vilified position and means you don't have to put the thought in and actually approach the issue sensibly. And also, as if you've managed to make a thread about women defying gender-based expectations into how modern feminism is terrible.
[QUOTE=.Lain;49198749]the entire UK disagrees with you[/QUOTE] I'll rephrase. American women.
[QUOTE=opaali;49196818]Don't you pretty much 100% just drive semis? Those are easy to reverse since you have only 1 pivot point[/QUOTE] I work for a distribution company and rode with a driver for a week. I would have been working an awful rotating split shift if I took the driver position. Everything else wasn't difficult, sitting in traffic, dealing with cars blocking the loading dock, etc
[QUOTE=shozamar;49199782]I think this whole post sums up everything that I dislike about either the general consensus or loud minority of this forum when it comes to the evil, man-hating feminists that people are so eager to find. By that I don't mean I agree with it, I mean it's fucking terrible. Stuff like "not saying this about all women but in my personal experience, they're generally harder-working than men" ("so clearly feminists are wrong because men do all the hard work"). How do even you say something like this and not see the ridiculousness of it? The whole argument along the lines of "men do hard shit like mining and manual labour yet feminists don't seem to want that" is bollocks. When have you even seen a feminist say women shouldn't do those jobs? You haven't, you just want to believe that that's the feminist ideology because it places them in an easily vilified position and means you don't have to put the thought in and actually approach the issue sensibly. And also, as if you've managed to make a thread about women defying gender-based expectations into how modern feminism is terrible.[/QUOTE] Because the root of feminism/women's rights is that they want "equality", but eventually, everything seems to boil down to wanting all the perks and none of the responsibilities that come along with them. And in general, they are picky about what jobs they want to do "in the name of equality". For instance, if you'd like to join the Marines, that's fine, but remember that 80lbs is 80lbs, regardless if you have a dick or a twat. If you can't carry that for X miles, then you're out, simple as that. And no, we're not lowering the bar so we could have inferior soldiers that would be literally cannon fodder on the battlefield. If you'd like to be a construction worker, that's fine, but remember that the ambient can be dense as hell, for scrawny shy dudes and women alike - both will have to prove that they have what it takes for the job, until they're accepted and treated as equals. For those reasons, I commend these women for doing what they do.
[QUOTE=viper shtf;49199809]I'll rephrase. American women.[/QUOTE] So you're generalising that women barely drive manuals, [I]in a country where only like 5% of cars sold per year are manual[/I]. That's kinda redundant, don't ya think?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49198179]Having done the warehouse end of the loading, no, truck drivers don't load shit. They may help you if they're really nice guys, but they really generally don't do shit. They sit in their cab, or they come inside and sit in a chair and wait for us. Though, I guess the Mcdonalds supply truck that keeps the McDicks around here stocked up, that driver does the unloading too, so that's a physical as fuck job.[/QUOTE] It really depends on the type of positions though. True over the road (OTR) positions rarely have you touching freight unless you're hauling a flatbed or doing dedicated runs. Then you have the food service or city drivers who bust their ass on a daily basis. They drive in traffic all day and then load/unload their trailers throughout the day as well. [QUOTE=hexpunK;49198109]It really doesn't though. Most truck drivers are either overweight or obese, have awful dietary habits and are sat in their cab for 80% of the day. Any loading/ unloading is done via forklifts, cranes, caddies, etc. very little actual manual labour is required. Tightening straps of covered loads uses mechanisms designed to be as effortless as possible for maximum effect because doing the opposite would be fucking dumb. Repair work is usually done by trained workshop engineers rather than the drivers themselves because otherwise it would be fucking dangerous. Haulage doesn't require brute strength.[/QUOTE] I drive for a large LTL company doing line-haul work and I'm inclined to agree that some people do as little as physically possible. That is a personal decision though. I know lots of drivers that exercise whenever they're at home or on their 10 hour break. It's all about making the right decisions. You can be healthy and drive all day if you put your mind to it. Whenever I have the time I like to get at least and hour of intense exercise in every day. Then there's others who like to eat like shit and not move an inch all day. As for the whole women in truck driving I can agree that there isn't many. I do see a good deal of husband and wife team drivers out there but a lone female driver is a fairly rare sight. It's not that the job can only be done by men, it's just that for whatever reason women generally aren't interested in driving a truck all day. There's lots of men out there that can't or won't do this job too.
Have you ever drove a truck for a living? It takes a special personality. I don't want to do that again. I don't blame someone else not wanting to. Male or female.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;49197606] American semis are huge, they are not "easy" to back up with precision. :v: Simple in theory, sure, but visibility is an issue on a vehicle that's 80 feet long in total.[/QUOTE] We drive 83' long combinations [img]https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3400/3609746887_0fa3cfeb3d.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=opaali;49207798]We drive 83' long combinations [img]https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3400/3609746887_0fa3cfeb3d.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] Ah, sorta like the Aussie "road trains", I see...
Only truck driver who was ever consistently on time when I worked at a grocery store was a woman. I definitely feel like there's this "guy's club" culture in the business that forces women to work twice as hard just to be recognized as half the worker.
[QUOTE=Stopper;49196453]Power steering makes it so you can drive using your pinkies if you wanted to[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Stopper;49196611]If by "magically" you mean the people who's job it is to load the truck, then yes.[/QUOTE] Unless all you do is local "drop and hook," there is a [I]hell[/I] of a lot more to trucking than being a steering wheel holder. If you work flatbeds you are responsible for ensuring that your loads are adequately tied down. Reefers constantly have to check trailer equipment. There's plenty of inspections that need to be done constantly, and tons of busted and rusted to shit things you will need to constantly brute force (remember, trucks are on the roads literally millions of miles. Stuff breaks down).
The reason is because women make different personal choices and want different things from life than men do. The interesting thing is that when you look at nations that are less permissive in the personal choices of women such as Iran or Saudi Arabia women tend to occupy more traditionally male occupations than in western nations. In contrast, western nations tend to have more traditional distributions between the sexes in careers. The nations that allow for greater freedom of choice tend to be more traditional in career choices. Norway, for example, has ninety percent of nursing jobs occupied by females and only ten percent of engineering jobs with females. Norway is considered one of the most gender equal countries in Europe by many. An interesting study conducted by the University of Oslo showed that teenage girls in less egalitarian nations like Saudi Arabia have more interest in more mechanical "male" types of jobs like engineering than girls in Norway. Unfortunately I was unable to find a direct link to the study, but it is included in this brilliant documentary by a Norwegian comedian called "Brainwashed" that I will link below. It's very likely that this difference between interests is not even due to any implicit gender bias or societal norms, but rather that men and women are hard wired to enjoy different things. Men are typically more interesting in jobs of a physical nature and dealing with systems as one would in any engineering job or IT job. Women, on the other hand, much more commonly enjoy working with people and caring for others in fields such as childcare or nursing. It's totally possible that women find careers like truck driving, construction, mining, or engineering boring and uninteresting rather than that they are avoiding the careers due to stigma or implicit biases against them. As a man, I know that I wouldn't enjoy childcare or nursing whatsoever. Those occupations don't sound enjoyable or interesting in the slightest to me. Of course there is always deviation and there are definitely men and women in all careers, but most women do not enter STEM fields and most men do not seek jobs in childcare or nursing. [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiJVJ5QRRUE[/media] Personally, I find the idea that all women must strive to be in traditionally male careers against their own will very disrespectful to women. A babysitter and a nurse are both fine jobs and aren't inherently any less valuable to society than an engineer, and if women want these jobs then where is the problem? Similarly, if women do not want to take jobs in very physical fields is that a problem? If these differences can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt to be the result of sexism then this is different, but from the evidence that I have seen there is an extremely strong probability that this gender difference exists due to the personal choice afforded to women in a modern western liberal democracy.
[QUOTE=opaali;49207798]We drive 83' long combinations [img]https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3400/3609746887_0fa3cfeb3d.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] That looks fun to drive! I haul double trailers from terminal to terminal and it's not really all that hard. Mind you it's two 28' pup trailers and not that above. The only big con to hauling a set of doubles is that you simply cannot back up.
[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;49196405] [editline]27th November 2015[/editline] And let's be frank -- most dudes who are into hair dressing, or have a work that gravitates towards the fashion business, tend to be gay dudes, never a straight average Joe. The stereotype exists for a reason, and most straight dudes would *never* dare to get a job in that field, where one would feel labeled as the rest of the guys in that area of expertise.[/QUOTE] As a design student, I find this kind of statement rather idiotic, considering half our class is straight males, most of them being quite masculine. The sterotype about feminine/male jobs is dumb, not because its statistically inaccurate (because it isn't), but because it makes retarded generalizations about the people in their field, like scientists being awkward virgins, male hairdressers being flamboyant, etc (anyone who thinks male hairdressers are flamboyant clearly hasn't had his hair cut by a turk in austria). It's a way of thinking that's patently immature. It's okay to think of a male when you think of the military, because they are statistically more likely to take that job. But it's dumb to think; male soldier = dumb brute, and female soldier = butch lesbian.
[QUOTE=wewt!;49208451]As a design student, I find this kind of statement rather idiotic, considering half our class is straight males, most of them being quite masculine. The sterotype about feminine/male jobs is dumb, not because its statistically inaccurate (because it isn't), but because it makes retarded generalizations about the people in their field, like scientists being awkward virgins, male hairdressers being flamboyant, etc (anyone who thinks male hairdressers are flamboyant clearly hasn't had his hair cut by a turk in austria). It's a way of thinking that's patently immature. It's okay to think of a male when you think of the military, because they are statistically more likely to take that job. But it's dumb to think; male soldier = dumb brute, and female soldier = butch lesbian.[/QUOTE] The Design industry as a whole is separate from hair dressing and fashion design. Design courses tend to be 50/50 men and women (source: I'm a design student) while hair dressing, fashion design and nursing tend to be female dominated while engineering and computer science tend to be male dominated. Cuturally speaking, general Design courses tend to be about halfway between those two extremes, with an even amount of technical work, communication and self/group management. As you lean more towards typically male-oriented courses you start to see more men and less women and vice versa with typically female-oriented courses. It's less of a categorical distinction and more of a smooth gradient where more specialized fields have less diverse adherents at either extreme (not only in terms of gender, but also things such as personality too). This concept seems to be backed up by anthropological studies which show that in countries with more gender equality there is actually more gender distinction in career choices, i.e. the more equal the country the more men pick typically male-oriented jobs and the more women pick typically female-oriented jobs. This is despite the fact that in many countries with a higher degree of gender parity there is also a highly sexist and discriminatory workplace, not to mention legal boundaries designed to make it difficult for women who choose to work, so despite the higher amount of sexism people still choose the same professions regardless of gender because they lack the freedom to do what they like. Here in the west, it's possible to go into whatever profession you like and still make enough money to live relatively comfortably (compared to a third-world country, that is), so people choose to do whatever interests them instead of whatever pays the most.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;49196403]Perhaps society's view that it's a "men's" job and the male dominated culture also as being off-putting.[/QUOTE] Lorry drivers and taxi drivers are one of the most dangerous jobs because they get assaulted much more often than anyone. Guess why it's a men's job mostly.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;49208609]Lorry drivers and taxi drivers are one of the most dangerous jobs because they get assaulted much more often than anyone. Guess why it's a men's job mostly.[/QUOTE] Maybe in Russia, but not in the developed world.
My dad drives lorries for a living, from artics to tippers he's done it all and it seems the most unappealing shit ever. Long hours. Ludicrous traffic, narrow streets and country lanes and shit. It all depends on what sort of driving you do I suppose all the females at his work are the office staff, the guys are warehouse and drivers
I don't know what to think of this article. It comes off as really negative but when I read the female truck driver comments (which is part of the article) at the bottom of the article it sounds like it's fun. Perhaps if the article focused on the good side of things and mentioned the bad side of things it would actually encourage more women to join. Many of the comments mention being treated equally if not better in some cases because it's so rare.
[QUOTE=draugur;49196437]And? Women can be just as physically capable as men.[/QUOTE] To be honest the article [I]is[/I] implying that one of the reason the job gets more popular for women is because it requires less strength, so blame the article for saying women aren't capable, not opaali.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;49208623]Maybe in Russia, but not in the developed world.[/QUOTE] Checked the statistics before you say that. Also thats insulting.
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