• Columbine survivor introduces bill to expand concealed-carry in schools
    129 replies, posted
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;53151700]The same can be literally said about anyone and anything. What if cops decide they want to abuse their power? Many already have, and that's something that pops up all the time. And what's stopping then from doing it now? Barring guns from schools doesn't create a magical shield that evaporates guns that touch it around the building. If teachers wanted to use guns to abuse students they already have that as an option. No one said every teacher in the country had to become super soldiers to be teachers. The whole point is to give the option to teachers who would wish to carry the option to do so. Many people who already carry have gone through training, and are already spending their own time and money to continue training on their own for themselves. Giving teachers the option now allows them to extend that training and experience in being able to defend their students if need be.[/QUOTE] Okay so now we have a chance for crossfire in schools, potentially confusing students trying to run from all gunfire, and in the heat of the moment they may not head in a safe direction. Alternatively, a student could be shot by a teacher in a shootout, which is now something they have to live with. You may end the incident sooner but you may also have students mistakenly shot by teachers, you could have teachers shot by responding officers who are on edge and looking for a gunman, and my favorite argument from Trump is that it'll make shooters think twice, as if shooters don't often already end these situations by putting a bullet in their brain anyway. The school had an armed officer on campus that didn't go in. The kid was underage and legally able to buy the weapon. Giving guns to teachers tries to address the symptom, not the cause. Pour money into mental health, enforce stricter background checks with better databases of information, and fucking get rid of the weapons that literally function as a human killing tool. I don't give a shit about second amendment rights if that right is directly leading to fucking children being slaughtered every few weeks. [editline]23rd February 2018[/editline] [QUOTE=UncleJimmema;53152165]And by having or not having a gun that makes threats any different? Your implying that the words "I'm going to kill you with a gun" carries more weight than "I'm going to kill you". You're concerns with exploitation are valid, but those concerns remain literally the same as they currently are. As I said, we have no problem trusting police with a firearm even though they're much more likely to use it in crimes and violence than a person with a CCW, as posted on the previous page. Basically what I'm hearing is a bunch of what ifs, what ifs that are literally already applicable. Your essentially using the same argument evangelicals use when trying to keep transgenders from using the bathroom of their choosing. Being transgender doesn't make you want to exploit children, just as a firearm doesnt make you more inclined to exploit children. You are literally nitpicking something that is already a very rare occurrence in of itself.[/QUOTE] It's really frustrating that you're trying to create a comparative irony but at the same time you're still comparing transgendered rights to weapons used to kill people. One is based on myth and ignorance, the other is based on watching news feeds every couple months on children getting murdered in school and wondering if I'm ever going to have to see my sister or niece on a news ticker.
[QUOTE=Tigster;53154051]Giving guns to teachers tries to address the symptom, not the cause.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Tigster;53154051]fucking get rid of the weapons that literally function as a human killing tool. I don't give a shit about second amendment rights if that right is directly leading to fucking children being slaughtered every few weeks.[/QUOTE] k Are you trying to address the cause instead of the symptom, or are you trying to "get rid of" sporting rifles? Pick one and only one
[QUOTE=Zombinie;53154067]k[/QUOTE] How is this a response, I'm arguing that less guns need to be following freely because some outdated right with insufficient adjustment through modern lawmaking has turned it into a hill to die on for conservatives who would rather leave it untouched and get their NRA money, instead of doing something serious to address a legitimate crisis. But "k" is somehow a good discussion point in polidicks [editline]23rd February 2018[/editline] [QUOTE=Zombinie;53154067]k Are you trying to address the cause instead of the symptom, or are you trying to "get rid of" sporting rifles? Pick one and only one[/QUOTE] I'm saying the second amendment by itself isn't this holy gift from God. Nobody on the right wants to do anything that tempers the right for the modern day. Is that not addressing the cause?
[QUOTE=Zombinie;53154067]k Are you trying to address the cause instead of the symptom, or are you trying to "get rid of" sporting rifles? Pick one and only one[/QUOTE] What is your argument that guns are just a symptom and not part of the causes based on? [editline]23rd February 2018[/editline] If you want to use rifles for sport then just adopt any European gun laws. You'll notice people there are still allowed to practice. What use is conceal carrying for those who just use guns for sport anyway?
[QUOTE=Tigster;53154051]Okay so now we have a chance for crossfire in schools, potentially confusing students trying to run from all gunfire, and in the heat of the moment they may not head in a safe direction. Alternatively, a student could be shot by a teacher in a shootout, which is now something they have to live with. You may end the incident sooner but you may also have students mistakenly shot by teachers, you could have teachers shot by responding officers who are on edge and looking for a gunman, and my favorite argument from Trump is that it'll make shooters think twice, as if shooters don't often already end these situations by putting a bullet in their brain anyway. The school had an armed officer on campus that didn't go in. The kid was underage and legally able to buy the weapon. Giving guns to teachers tries to address the symptom, not the cause. Pour money into mental health, enforce stricter background checks with better databases of information, and fucking get rid of the weapons that literally function as a human killing tool. I don't give a shit about second amendment rights if that right is directly leading to fucking children being slaughtered every few weeks. [editline]23rd February 2018[/editline] It's really frustrating that you're trying to create a comparative irony but at the same time you're still comparing transgendered rights to weapons used to kill people. One is based on myth and ignorance, the other is based on watching news feeds every couple months on children getting murdered in school and wondering if I'm ever going to have to see my sister or niece on a news ticker.[/QUOTE] Once again you're pointing to a bunch of what ifs in an already rare situation. As I've explained multiple times now, the purpose is to not make teachers go track down a school shooter. The standard procedure across much of America is to lock down the classrooms in a school shooting, the point of arming the teacher allows them an option beyond hiding and hoping in the event that an active shooter tries to get into that room. . Everything you just mentioned is something that any cop or any person who is already conceal carrying has to face. As pointed out in a previous post people with carry permits are much less likely to fire when the perpetrator isn't clear or does not have a clear shot. People who have taken carry classes have been trained how to deal with police in the event that they pulled their firearm and/or had to use it, and the number of instances where the defender has been shot on accident have been incredibly slim. All of your concerns are things thousands of people already deal with when they choose to carry a firearm, and thousands of people are willing and have accepted that responsibility You are trying to portray my comparison of arguments as a comparison of equivalency. The fact that you don't understand I'm comparing arguments, and not the contents of those arguments, means you either failed to understand at best or you're trying to deflect my argument at the worst. In either event, any sane indevidual would understand that I'm not saying guns or transgendered are in any way equivalent.
A lot of the arguments against allowing teachers to CCW are the exact same arguments that were brought up a in the early to mid-90s against allowing CCW in public. Opponents of CCW in the 90s said that it'd result in blood baths in the streets. That simple arguments would lead to a CCW holder shooting the person they were arguing with. That police would be confused when they came on a CCW holder and shoot the CCW holder. Pretty much none of this has been a real concern since CCW was allowed in public. Teachers were allowed in California to CCW into school before the lawmakers there stripped that from them last October. Despite there being no evidence that those teachers were a threat. [url]http://www.latimes.com/politics/essential/la-pol-ca-essential-politics-updates-california-school-employees-won-t-be-1508021708-htmlstory.html[/url] [quote]Five California school districts — including the Kingsburg Joint Union and Kern school districts — have begun to issue authorizations for some school employees to bring guns on campuses, McCarty said. He said it has increased the chance of school shootings. “A safe learning environment is essential for our children to be successful in the classroom,” McCarty said. “That’s not possible if a school district allows armed civilians to roam California school campuses.” The measure, AB 424, was opposed by groups advocating for gun owners including the National Rifle Assn. and the Firearms Policy Coalition, [b]which noted that there have been no shootings involving California school employees who brought guns to campuses[/b].[/quote] Texas has the same allowance in the law for the school administrators to allow teachers to CCW in school. We've not had a problem with teachers using guns against disruptive students or anything like that. Its all BS designed to make it seem unreasonable that teachers should be allowed to decide if they want to carry a firearm. All what ifs that haven't happened. And probably won't happen.
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