• Indiana just banned abortion if the fetus has Down syndrome
    198 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006821]A sperm cannot alone become a fetus, an egg as well cannot do that, they need to be put there actively. This consensual effort (assuming we're not speaking about abortion out of rape, because that is a completely other subject which is a whole other kettle of fish) in turn demands some responsibility from the two people engaged in fucking each other.[/QUOTE] Your argument requires so much mental gymnastics that it's not even worth considering at this point
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006693]"Jews are just rats, they need not be treated like humans, they don't function like you or I" you guys may think this analogy is far fetched but it's really unsettling how eerily Nazi-esque your guy's language is on this matter. I suppose I can't argue the life question since you all have unanimously decided this thing that you once were is no longer worthy of defense. I doubt a fetus would agree with you all, but they aren't people I suppose.[/QUOTE] I really have no idea how you think this is similar to Hitler's actions Jewish people are completely ordinary people Fetuses with down syndrome are not only going to screw the family up in these cases but will also lead horrible lives
a fetus has more in common with a parasite at the stage of abortion than it does a fully formed and grown human. [URL="https://aeon.co/essays/why-pregnancy-is-a-biological-war-between-mother-and-baby"]hell, pregnancy is basically a fight between the mother and fetus.[/URL] those suckers take any chance they can get to get as much from the mom as they can
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;50006831]a fetus has more in common with a parasite at the stage of abortion than it does a fully formed and grown human. [URL="https://aeon.co/essays/why-pregnancy-is-a-biological-war-between-mother-and-baby"]hell, pregnancy is basically a fight between the mother and fetus.[/URL] those suckers take any chance they can get to get as much from the mom as they can[/QUOTE] I highly doubt anyone of us would have liked to lose that fight.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006821]A sperm cannot alone become a fetus, an egg as well cannot do that, they need to be put there actively. This consensual effort (assuming we're not speaking about abortion out of rape, because that is a completely other subject which is a whole other kettle of fish) in turn demands some responsibility from the two people engaged in fucking each other.[/QUOTE] people can't see into the future and figure out whether their child will have down syndrome or not
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006821]A sperm cannot alone become a fetus, an egg as well cannot do that, they need to be put there actively. This consensual effort (assuming we're not speaking about abortion out of rape, because that is a completely other subject which is a whole other kettle of fish) in turn demands some responsibility from the two people engaged in fucking each other.[/quote] So if a couple has a lapse in responsibility and accidentally a pregnancy, should they be punished with having to bear and keep a child that will become unhappy and live in a unhealthy family due to not being wanted and being forced onto their parents ?
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006693]"Jews are just rats, they need not be treated like humans, they don't function like you or I" you guys may think this analogy is far fetched but it's really unsettling how eerily Nazi-esque your guy's language is on this matter. I suppose I can't argue the life question since you all have unanimously decided this thing that you once were is no longer worthy of defense. I doubt a fetus would agree with you all, but they aren't people I suppose.[/QUOTE] A fetus until a certain point in its development is quite simply a lump of cells. After that point then yeah you have an argument. But before that point its a lump of cells like any other lump of cells in your body. Would you call it murder to exercise a benign tumor?
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006839]I highly doubt anyone of us would have liked to lose that fight.[/QUOTE] You need to develop consciousness and self-awareness before you can feel anything about losing it.
[QUOTE=MaximLaHaxim;50006826]I really have no idea how you think this is similar to Hitler's actions Jewish people are completely ordinary people Fetuses with down syndrome are not only going to screw the family up in these cases but will also lead horrible lives[/QUOTE] To a perverted eugenic believer, you could see other races and creeds as just as detrimental, just as screwed up and you'd have your contemporary science to confirm your idea that a certain class of people just doesn't deserve to exist.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006850]To a perverted eugenic believer, you could see other races and creeds as just as detrimental, just as screwed up and you'd have your contemporary science to confirm your idea that a certain class of people just doesn't deserve to exist.[/QUOTE] You seem to be under the impression that a recently conceived fetus is the same as a conscious and thinking human being.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006850]To a perverted eugenic believer, you could see other races and creeds as just as detrimental, just as screwed up and you'd have your contemporary science to confirm your idea that a certain class of people just doesn't deserve to exist.[/QUOTE] Eugenics is not culling a fetus that's defective before it comes out. Eugenics is the belief that humanity can be bettered by preventing people with "undesirable traits" from reproducing, and encouraging people with "desirable traits" to reproduce with other people sharing such traits, forcibly or otherwise. Eugenics is what you apply to live people who are able to reproduce, not to the result of reproduction.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;50006845]So if a couple has a lapse in responsibility and accidentally a pregnancy, should they be punished with having to bear and keep a child that will become unhappy and live in a unhealthy family due to not being wanted and being forced onto their parents ?[/QUOTE] So the potential child should be punished instead because of something that it had no control over. Being an adult requires some amount of being aware and having accountability. If you're so careless as to not put a rubber on, takes a minute and they give em out free at a lot of hospitals and even some schools, or other preemptive contraceptive, why the hell is the consequence not on the people who had the lapse in judgement.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006869]So the potential child should be punished instead because of something that it had no control over. Being an adult requires some amount of being aware and having accountability. If you're so careless as to not put a rubber on, takes a minute and they give em out free at a lot of hospitals and even some schools, or other preemptive contraceptive, why the hell is the consequence not on the people who had the lapse in judgement.[/QUOTE] contraceptives can fail though
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006839]I highly doubt anyone of us would have liked to lose that fight.[/QUOTE] :badzing: and I highly doubt anyone would like to live with down syndrome the fetus is doing what it does naturally, not doing it because it wants to
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006869]So the potential child should be punished instead because of something that it had no control over.[/quote] They aren't punishing anything? A fetus until a certain point is simply a cluster of cells. It is the POTENTIAL for conscious human life. But it is NOT conscious human life and thus should simply be considered an extension of the mothers being until the fetus is at a stage in its development where it can be considered a human being. [quote] Being an adult requires some amount of being aware and having accountability. If you're so careless as to not put a rubber on, takes a minute and they give em out free at a lot of hospitals and even some schools, or other preemptive contraceptive, why the hell is the consequence not on the people who had the lapse in judgement.[/QUOTE] Thats horribly pretentious of you. Protection doesn't always work. Condoms rip. People get fucking raped. What exactly are those people supposed to do?
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006821]A sperm cannot alone become a fetus, an egg as well cannot do that, they need to be put there actively. This consensual effort (assuming we're not speaking about abortion out of rape, because that is a completely other subject which is a whole other kettle of fish) in turn demands some responsibility from the two people engaged in fucking each other. then I doubt that now as an adult you would have enjoyed the prospect of being prematurely evicted from your first apartment.[/QUOTE] A fetus, by its very nature, is a non-sentient entity. Replace the word "(non-sentient) sperm" with "(non-sentient) fetus" As JohnnyMo put it: Despite its possible "becoming", it has not yet taken the exact nature of its future state. A fetus is, by definition, [i]not currently in the state of being a sentient being. It is a group of non-sentient cells.[/i]
Okay so even if your logic made sense, you'd rather have a kid's life be shit for an entire lifetime (which ranges from 50 to 90 years) than have a fetus' life be ended within less than a year. And this somehow doesn't apply to rape because then a fetus deserves being "killed" because it came from unwanted sex ? Abortion isn't something people take lightly. It sucks and it's difficult. But people would much rather end a chance at life before it happens than let it get out of control and end up rising a shit child in a shit family with a shit life afterward.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006839]I highly doubt anyone of us would have liked to lose that fight.[/QUOTE] most people do lose the fight, if they win they kill their mother in the process. anyways i see little difference between a me aborted and a me never conceived.
[QUOTE=Droogie;50006879]contraceptives can fail though[/QUOTE] Condoms have a 98% success rate, the other 2 percent is failure to use one properly, in which case I suggest an education of safe sex is needed.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006891]Condoms have a 98% success rate, the other 2 percent is failure to use one properly, in which case I suggest an education of safe sex is needed.[/QUOTE] What about rape victims?
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006869]So the potential child should be punished instead because of something that it had no control over.[/QUOTE] You can't punish a fetus. It is not sapient, or sentient, it has no ability to think or feel anything. It is not emotionally affected by anything until it becomes a child. [QUOTE]Being an adult requires some amount of being aware and having accountability. If you're so careless as to not put a rubber on, takes a minute and they give em out free at a lot of hospitals and even some schools, or other preemptive contraceptive, why the hell is the consequence not on the people who had the lapse in judgement.[/QUOTE] This has literally nothing to do with aborting a fetus that is discovered to have a serious condition that is extremely hard to deal with, i.e. Downs syndrome. Are you deliberating being an obtuse chump, or do you actually believe the shit you're saying? To compare aborting a fetus with Downs to eugenics and the holocaust is one of the stupidest things I have ever had to read.
I will also add: If the parent does not [i]genuinely[/i] want the child before birth, then the child is unlikely to receive [i]genuine[/i] care and/or compassion in the future (from the respective parent).
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;50006887]Okay so even if your logic made sense, you'd rather have a kid's life be shit for an entire lifetime (which ranges from 50 to 90 years) than have a fetus' life be ended within less than a year. Abortion isn't something people take lightly. It sucks and it's difficult. But people would much rather end a chance at life before it happens than let it get out of control and end up rising a shit child in a shit family with a shit life afterward.[/QUOTE] Most homeless people have shit lives but I'd much prefer them keep on living.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006891]Condoms have a 98% success rate, the other 2 percent is failure to use one properly, in which case I suggest an education of safe sex is needed.[/QUOTE] tell that to the people who accidentally ripped them on accident before/during sex
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006896]Most homeless people have shit lives but I'd much prefer them keep on living.[/QUOTE] Stop equating an undeveloped fetus to a conscious human being.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006896]Most homeless people have shit lives but I'd much prefer them keep on living.[/QUOTE] that's what you prefer, not what the people making the choice of abortion prefer
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006896]Most homeless people have shit lives but I'd much prefer them keep on living.[/QUOTE] Homeless people are sentient beings.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006896]Most homeless people have shit lives but I'd much prefer them keep on living.[/QUOTE] Homelessness is not a congenital disease.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006891]Condoms have a 98% success rate, the other 2 percent is failure to use one properly, in which case I suggest an education of safe sex is needed.[/QUOTE] also what exactly is the moral difference between preventing a pregnancy with contraceptives and terminating a recent pregnancy in the earliest stages of gestation?
I'd also like to point out that rapists aren't exactly going to put on a rubber before they have a go. What are rape victims supposed to do?
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