• Indiana just banned abortion if the fetus has Down syndrome
    198 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Droogie;50006913]also what exactly is the moral difference between preventing a pregnancy with contraceptives and terminating a recent pregnancy in the earliest stages of gestation?[/QUOTE] If a fetus is somehow a living thing then wouldn't that also be the case for gametes ? Can a woman be held responsible for menstruating and thus destroying a perfectly fine egg ?
[QUOTE=Droogie;50006913]also what exactly is the moral difference between preventing a pregnancy with contraceptives and terminating a recent pregnancy in the earliest stages of gestation?[/QUOTE] None (morally speaking), which I assume you implied. This is probably one of the most important points in the thread.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006839]I highly doubt anyone of us would have liked to lose that fight.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't have given a shit, because you actually need a functioning brain to give shits. [QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006869]So the potential child should be punished instead because of something that it had no control over. Being an adult requires some amount of being aware and having accountability. If you're so careless as to not put a rubber on, takes a minute and they give em out free at a lot of hospitals and even some schools, or other preemptive contraceptive, why the hell is the consequence not on the people who had the lapse in judgement.[/QUOTE] There are other things people can consciously make besides a fetus, but nobody gives a shit if a couple decides to throw out their ikea furniture 3 weeks after putting it together. Seriously, why would it make any difference if the fetus was intentionally made or not? When you abort before it even has a mind or it's own agency, it's literally no different than if the couple had just abstained that day.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006896]Most homeless people have shit lives but I'd much prefer them keep on living.[/QUOTE] coming into existence and continuing to exist are two entirely different things
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006891]Condoms have a 98% success rate, the other 2 percent is failure to use one properly, in which case I suggest an education of safe sex is needed.[/QUOTE] [Citation needed]
[QUOTE=Droogie;50006913]also what exactly is the moral difference between preventing a pregnancy with contraceptives and terminating a recent pregnancy in the earliest stages of gestation?[/QUOTE] There is no immediate potential for life in a single sperm or a single egg, they cannot grow by themselves. A fertilized egg is the potential for a human being. [QUOTE=Feuver;50006924][Citation needed][/QUOTE] [T]http://puu.sh/nU6NY.png[/T]
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006935]There is no immediate potential for life in a single sperm or a single egg, they cannot grow by themselves. A fertilized egg is the potential for a human being.[/QUOTE] a fertilized egg cannot grow by itself, either
They can just go to another state right?
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006935]There is no immediate potential for life in a single sperm or a single egg, they cannot grow by themselves. A fertilized egg is the potential for a human being.[/QUOTE] Potential nature is not actual nature, thus, undeserving of the same moral treatment.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006821]A sperm cannot alone become a fetus, an egg as well cannot do that, they need to be put there actively. [/QUOTE] You could easily say this for a womb and a recently fertilized egg/clump of cells. [QUOTE]So the potential child should be punished instead because of something that it had no control over.[/QUOTE] But nothing is being punished provided the abortion is at a legal stage. Unless pouring bleach into a toilet is genocide to you. That's like complaining about a possible human not getting to exist because a couple are breaking up instead of breeding.
I think Johnny Joe firmly believes that human beings are oviparian and just shit out a perfectly self-sufficient egg a few weeks after fucking.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006935]There is no immediate potential for life in a single sperm or a single egg, they cannot grow by themselves. A fertilized egg is the potential for a human being. [/QUOTE] The potential for something is not the same as the thing it can potentially become.
[QUOTE=Viper_;50006949]Unless pouring bleach into a toilet is genocide to you. [/QUOTE] I can't argue with someone who equates human life to shit.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006935]There is no immediate potential for life in a single sperm or a single egg, they cannot grow by themselves. A fertilized egg is the potential for a human being.[/QUOTE] would you consider a person or a couple that decides to remain childless immoral because they are refusing potential children their right to life?
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006935]There is no immediate potential for life in a single sperm or a single egg, they cannot grow by themselves. A fertilized egg is the potential for a human being. [T]http://puu.sh/nU6NY.png[/T][/QUOTE] Even with this evidence, how is your argument any more valid? A condom is a contraceptive, abortion is a contraceptive. One is just done later against a group of (non-sentient) cells.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006956]I can't argue with someone who equates human life to shit.[/QUOTE] [quote]The potential for something is not the same as the thing it can potentially become.[/quote]
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;50006951]I think Johnny Joe firmly believes that human beings are oviparian and just shit out a perfectly self-sufficient egg a few weeks after fucking.[/QUOTE] I congealed in a gutter somewhere outside of Las Vegas, thank you very much.
[QUOTE=Droogie;50006957]would you consider a person or a couple that decides to remain childless immoral because they are refusing potential children their right to life?[/QUOTE] Droogie nails it again. [i]Potential is not necessarily actual.[/i]
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006956]I can't argue with someone who equates human life to shit.[/QUOTE] how many times to we have to tell you, fetuses aren't conscious, living human beings, it's not "human life"
[QUOTE=Droogie;50006957]would you consider a person or a couple that decides to remain childless immoral because they are refusing potential children their right to life?[/QUOTE] They never started something and then arbitrarily chose to finish it on a whim.
If trolling, fantastic job. We're stimulating philosophical discussion at the very least.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006935]There is no immediate potential for life in a single sperm or a single egg, they cannot grow by themselves. A fertilized egg is the potential for a human being.[/QUOTE] Except it's still not a potential human being without it's mother constantly providing for it for 9 straight months. A fetus, on the other hand, is incredibly easy to make. Just because it took 2 people instead of one doesn't change the fact that a clump of cells has very little value on it's own. [QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006971]They never started something and them arbitrarily chose to finish it on a whim.[/QUOTE] Except starting a fetus isn't a commitment. It takes literally minutes and practically anybody can do it. It's useless until the mother takes the time to nurture it and give it a life.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006935][T]http://puu.sh/nU6NY.png[/T][/QUOTE] Did you actually read that before you posted it? [QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006891]Condoms have a 98% success rate, the other 2 percent is failure to use one properly, in which case I suggest an education of safe sex is needed.[/QUOTE] "Perfect condom use has a 98 percent success rate."
Okay I'm going to put this as bluntly as possible Until a certain point in its development a fetus is literally a parasitic tumor. Does it have the potential to become an individual? Certainly. But until the point that it develops consciousness its literally just a lump of cells sucking nutrients out of the mother.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006971]They never started something and them arbitrarily chose to finish it on a whim.[/QUOTE] as I said, people can't magically figure out that their child will have down syndrome, they don't purposefully have sex just so they can terminate their baby in the future
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;50006978]Did you actually read that before you posted it? "Perfect condom use has a 98 percent success rate."[/QUOTE] It seems like everyone here demands a perfect child or else it gets terminated, why not hold yourself to the same standard.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;50006892]What about rape victims?[/QUOTE] He mentioned it himself but just said "I don't want to get into that".
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006992]It seems like everyone here demands a perfect child or else it gets terminated, why not hold yourself to the same standard.[/QUOTE] Are you quoting my post for a reason? This is a complete non-sequitur. A non-sequitur that is also an awful strawman.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006992]It seems like everyone here demands a perfect child or else it gets terminated, why not hold yourself to the same standard.[/QUOTE] No one is saying that. Stop trying to paint us as if we were advocating eugenics. People are saying that if a fetus was accidentally created(such as through a broken condom) or created through a malicious act (such as rape) then the mother should not be required to give birth to the child (unless it has reached the point in its development where can consider it a human being).
[QUOTE=Snickerdoodle;50007000]He mentioned it himself but just said "I don't want to get into that".[/QUOTE] I can talk about it if you'd like.
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