• Indiana just banned abortion if the fetus has Down syndrome
    198 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006992]It seems like everyone here demands a perfect child or else it gets terminated, why not hold yourself to the same standard.[/QUOTE] please fucking stop with the generalizations we're talking about [b]down syndrome[/b], not EVERY single disorder out there
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006992]It seems like everyone here demands a perfect child or else it gets terminated, why not hold yourself to the same standard.[/QUOTE] Except a child isn't getting terminated, a [I]fetus[/I] is getting terminated, and no matter how many times you equate abortion to killing children, it will never be the same thing. A child is incredibly difficult to make, because it takes months of commitment and attachment, and the end result actually cares if it lives or dies (unlike a fetus). Backing out on a child is not the same as backing out on a couple of weeks of cell division.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50007006]I can talk about it if you'd like.[/QUOTE] Please do.
I don't even understand this law at all. Its basically saying "its okay to kill fetuses with no defects but if the fetus has a defect then you can't kill it".
[QUOTE=exhale77;50007015]Please do.[/QUOTE] If it's a rape that results in a pregnancy, by all means no reason to not give the mother the choice in that situation. She should be able to choose because there was no agency or responsibility she had. I think you guys don't understand my position on this, so I'll be clearer: If it's even slightly dangerous to the mother's health, as in she will die if she gives birth, then yes, completely justifiable. If it's going to be so deformed or disabled that it cannot function properly or be essentially a vegetable, then yeah, completely fine. Rape, as stated above, perfectly fine reason to go into a clinic. But if it's minorly disabled in the way I have met countless Down Syndrome people, I would generally say no, unless there was a catastrophic health risk to mother or child. Likewise, abortion for convenience or because the parents made a slip up, which is the case in a majority of these operations, really doesn't justify it to me. I can understand why finance and other outside factors affect a decision like this, but I visualize the reason for most of these sort of doctor visits is "I don't want to be bothered by a child" which doesn't sit right with me. I more ponder about people looking to have a child, and then aborting it when it turns out it might not be perfect, then people in financial straits or with medical issues, those are both tough calls. This ideal of controlling something and then discarding it when it isn't how you prefer is just immensely childish to me, it reeks of not caring, not having the will to work with adversity.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50007039]If it's a rape that results in a pregnancy, by all means no reason to not give the mother the choice in that situation.[/QUOTE] So wait whats your justification for this then? Saying this contradicts your entire argument and is incredibly hypocritical
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006971]They never started something and then arbitrarily chose to finish it on a whim.[/QUOTE] but the hypothetical couple decided not to create a person they were perfectly capable of producing, you're arguing that terminating a non sentient fetus is morally objectionable because of its potential to become a sentient thing, why is the hypothetical couple then not in the wrong as well? [QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006992]It seems like everyone here demands a perfect child or else it gets terminated, why not hold yourself to the same standard.[/QUOTE] he's just pointing out that the image you linked and your earlier post don't match up the 2% of instance where condoms fail isn't because of improper usage
What's next? banning abortion if it was conceived by rape? why the backwards logic?
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006621]You didn't answer my question, is death preferable to living in poverty?[/QUOTE] no parent should have to raise a child with crippling disabilities, they should be granted the choice to do so. im not advocating eugenics, i'm simply saying that parents should be allowed the option, not everyone is cut out to raise a child with a disability especially as severe as downs syndrome. To have the state force that on parents through laws written to enshrine one specific set of religious views is wrong.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006992]It seems like everyone here demands a perfect child or else it gets terminated, why not hold yourself to the same standard.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006593]Then you admit that death is preferable to living in poverty.[/QUOTE] To be honest, these posts show that you think in completely black and white terms Trying to simplify matters to this degree is dangerous thinking.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006992]It seems like everyone here demands a perfect child or else it gets terminated, why not hold yourself to the same standard.[/QUOTE] the fetus could be an adonis with einstein intellect and if the mom decides they don't want to go through with it, into the stem cell research bin it goes
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006935][T]http://puu.sh/nU6NY.png[/T][/QUOTE] I don't think you understand what that says. Nowhere in that does it say that the 2% failure rate is caused by misuse, only that misuse can increase the risk of failure.
of course everyone wants a perfect kid. No one on earth wants a kid that has a severe mental illness. they want their kid to be the prime of their genetic stock no matter what happens. people can be thankful of their kids even if they have a debilitating illness and even people with a debilitating illness's (downsyndrome in this case) can live a life that's better than most others, but everyone deserves good genes and a lack of any chromosome based illness's
I don't really understand this stance - it's like you're half pro-choice which completely defeats the point of being it at all Like, if someone wants to abort a fetus with any problem or disability, I mean you're free to judge them (although that's still really shitty) but you shouldn't have any further input into someone else's gigantic decision
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;50007086]the fetus could be an adonis with einstein intellect and if the mom decides they don't want to go through with it, into the stem cell research bin it goes[/QUOTE] You'd make a fantastic camp counselor, the ones with the guard towers that is. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Post Shitting" - UncleJimmema))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;50006845]So if a couple has a lapse in responsibility and accidentally a pregnancy, should they be punished with having to bear and keep a child that will become unhappy and live in a unhealthy family due to not being wanted and being forced onto their parents ?[/QUOTE] To extend this point, I do agree with Johnny Joe that you have to really fuck up bad to not put on a condom properly, but if you do and you did it and now have to bear a child as well as take care of it even though you never wanted it, how is that any good for the child itself? Having parents that hate you is, I believe, beyond terrible. I dare to say that it would be better to end it all as a cluster of cells rather than live in constant misery, bad emotional atmosphere as well as a potential for guilt (what I mean by that is growing up you start to understand the world better and sooner or later you will start to understand that you have indirectly ruined the life of your parents, even though it's not exactly your fault they fucked up and abortions are banned.) Not sure if I have said everything correctly and if the idea flows well, it is pretty late here in my place and I'm very damn sleepy and at the same time a bit mad at these ridiculous posts that Johnny Joe spits.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006971]They never started something and then arbitrarily chose to finish it on a whim.[/QUOTE] Is the pull out method immoral then ?
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;50007148]Is the pull out method immoral then ?[/QUOTE] Ask any Viet Nam vet and they will tell you that pulling out before the job is done is just a bad idea.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50007135]You'd make a fantastic camp counselor, the ones with the guard towers that is.[/QUOTE] i'm just imagining myself as the dude who decides which jews to gas and which jews to send to the work camps with the attitude i am presenting in this thread. i'd have my legs kicked back with my skull-laden cap tipped over my eyes taking a snooze with a little sign pointing to the gas chambers and the work camps and let them decide. hell, i'd probably even put a sign pointing to the way out, not my problem or place to tell other people what to do with their lives.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50007135]You'd make a fantastic camp counselor, the ones with the guard towers that is.[/QUOTE] if up until this point you had been able to argue that a nonsentient fetus was morally equatable to a fully formed conscious being, then that post would have been a pretty sick burn! [QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50007175]That's why they call me supa hot fire, dude, I'm slinging the dankest memes and the hottest burns all over the U.S. of A. free of charge.[/QUOTE] since all of your statements have been refuted you're just gonna make epic joke posts now??
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;50007163]not my problem or place to tell other people what to do with their lives.[/QUOTE] And yet here you are on a forum trying to persuade me to think a different way as I attempt to do the exact same thing with an opposite opinion. [QUOTE=Droogie;50007171]if up until this point you had been able to argue that a nonsentient fetus was morally equatable to a fully formed conscious being, then that post would have been a pretty sick burn![/QUOTE] That's why they call me supa hot fire, dude, I'm slinging the dankest memes and the hottest burns all over the U.S. of A. free of charge. Alright folks, it's been 2 hours, I've learned a lot about you guys, and I'm sure you've learned a lot about me and I think we can all be friends, be seeing you.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50007175]And yet here you are on a forum trying to persuade me to think a different way as I attempt to do the exact same thing with an opposite opinion.[/QUOTE] i'm not trying to tell people what to do with their body, rather presenting why i don't care what a woman does with her body. you're the only one trying to tell people what they can and cannot do. if a lady wants to give birth to her child regardless of downs syndrome, she has my full support, just as much as if she decides to abort it. either way, no skin off my bones
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50007175]And yet here you are on a forum trying to persuade me to think a different way as I attempt to do the exact same thing with an opposite opinion.[/QUOTE] It's not exactly persuasion as much as pointing out obvious and blatant flaws in your logic. You're basically using a half baked nonsensical ideology that relies on non-sequitur and unfinished thought processes. Furthermore, you were the one to initiate the discussion. That means you're expected to have a complete and, if not agreeable, at least comprehensible or justifiable opinion. Right now it seems like you just had some spark of wishful thinking four pages ago and then you've sort of tried to bullshit your way around people pointing out holes in your logic that have never stopped increasing in size.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50007135]You'd make a fantastic camp counselor, the ones with the guard towers that is.[/QUOTE] Oh, I see the problem now. He just got fetuses mixed up with jews. No worries, happens all the time.
the funny thing about anyone who says "but think of all the Einsteins and S. Hawkings that have been aborted, this is why you should ban abortion" is that the argument is instantly countered by "think of all the Osama's and Saddam's we've aborted too" not that anyone has said that here, but I'm sure there's tons that have used that. [editline]25th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Ganerumo;50007190]Furthermore, you were the one to initiate the discussion. That means you're expected to have a complete and, if not agreeable, at least comprehensible or justifiable opinion. Right now it seems like you just had some spark of wishful thinking four pages ago and then you've sort of tried to bullshit your way around people pointing out holes in your logic that have never stopped increasing in size.[/QUOTE] ~if you can't deal with the heat... I forgot the rest
[QUOTE=J!NX;50007294]the funny thing about anyone who says "but think of all the Einsteins and S. Hawkings that have been aborted, this is why you should ban abortion" is that the argument is instantly countered by "think of all the Osama's and Saddam's we've aborted too"[/QUOTE] That argument often stems from the fact that predestination is (or used to be) a strong concept among religious people (especially for some protestants). It falls apart the instant you try it on someone who doesn't believe in the concept because then it means practically nothing.
[QUOTE=Pythagoras64;50007201]Oh, I see the problem now. He just got fetuses mixed up with jews. No worries, happens all the time.[/QUOTE] Aw man, just the other day I was like "The fetuses control the media! Wait, that doesn't sound right."
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[QUOTE=Kyle902;50007036]I don't even understand this law at all. Its basically saying "its okay to kill fetuses with no defects but if the fetus has a defect then you can't kill it".[/QUOTE] They can't ban abortion outright without huge public outcry so they're trying to introduce it step by step.
wtf they should be FORCING abortion if it has downs. One less retard = one less problem and less money wasted on caring for a useless waste of resources/oxygen/food/space [highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Gimmick Account" - Bradyns))[/highlight]
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