Tesla having a better economic model for a less promising product doesnt mean the hydrogen fuel economy sucks...
Hydrogen made more sense when charging times and ranges for EVs were still ludicrously terrible.
With those steadily eroding away as the tech behind EVs continue to advance, it only is starting to make more and more sense that EVs are the future.
That's not even mentioning how much effort it would actually take to produce hydrogen for the potential masses, while "re-fueling" an EV is pretty much a plug and play matter at this point.
[QUOTE=download;51328476]Let me guess, it had a 50kWhr battery and a pathetic range for that price? You've also said it yourself that Toyota haven't spent anywhere near what Tesla have spent yet have a vehicle that beats theirs in range.
You're not going to have superchargers that can charge a car in 10 or 20 minutes because the 200-400 kW electricity connections don't exist outside of factories. It means spending loads of money installing new transformers on power lines and new wiring everywhere.[/QUOTE]
you and him are both fixated on supercharging. the range issue stops becomming one when you get past the 200 mile mark reliably that satisfies pretty much all comutes and other drives people would do in a day and if you have it engineered so that they can charge every night to full then theres never a problem of range unlrss you decide to take a long trip across the country but there are tons of options about that even to renting an ICE for the trip
Some interesting videos at least:
[video=youtube;IfBeJbXf4w4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfBeJbXf4w4[/video]
[video=youtube;UZUMY_diTqc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZUMY_diTqc[/video]
I like that Hydrogen won't really loose economy in the cold like batteries do, as well as simple performance. You can't even do a full single lap on any major racetrack in the country in a Tesla yet, they simply overheat/go in to limp mode. Don't forget too, with Formula E, they have to switch cars just to make the full race distance.
It's great as well that Toyota paid for 3 years/15k miles of Hydrogen fuel too. Doesn't matter [I]as much[/I] when the damn car was about 40-50K, but still, that helps negate the cost to fuel and so on. Interesting too that the pumps are leased, so I'm guessing stations might save a tad on installation or something? Have to investigate further.
But yeah, alright, electric has some cost advantages, like less moving parts to service. And it technically works with some existing infrastructure. But when you do need to service, it does cost, unless under warrenty I suppose. I have read time and time again that because of the weight of the cars, tires and brakes wear excessively in comparison to other gas cars in the same class. It was already mentioned, but weight and electric still go hand in hand for the most part. The batteries "regular" electric cars need are not off the shelf, are only in racing, or if you're koenigsegg, you just get special opportunities. I imagine if some of the existing Tesla's reduced their weight while keeping other specs the same, their mileage and performance would improve.
Here in NH, we have about 2 superchargers in the whole state, both in inconvenient locations. Have zero, to my knowledge, hydrogen pumps. I also have seen about a dozen Teslas around the state. Last I saw a Roadster, it was on a flatbed :v:.
[QUOTE=Sableye;51329185]you and him are both fixated on supercharging. the range issue stops becomming one when you get past the 200 mile mark reliably that satisfies pretty much all comutes and other drives people would do in a day and if you have it engineered so that they can charge every night to full then theres never a problem of range unlrss you decide to take a long trip across the country but there are tons of options about that even to renting an ICE for the trip[/QUOTE]
I just think that we would have trouble getting people to adopt EVs if they wasn't capable of handling that one long trip a year that people take.
[QUOTE=Morgen;51329830]I just think that we would have trouble getting people to adopt EVs if they wasn't capable of handling that one long trip a year that people take.[/QUOTE]
Who cares about the rare long trips some people take. Think about public transit and trucks. That's where range will matter the absolute most. If We can't keep downtime for recharging down to a minimum for trucks and so on, that is a problem. Some logistics can't change too much, time is sometimes very much of the essence.
More interesting info on high mileage Teslas, and the fact that their drivetrains pre 2014 are iffy:
[url=http://jalopnik.com/heres-how-a-tesla-taxi-held-up-after-100-000-miles-1785360286]Tesla Taxi[/url]
[url=http://gas2.org/2015/05/04/worlds-highest-mileage-tesla-model-s-hits-120000-miles-still-going-strong/]Heavy commuter, also about 1.4 years old[/url]
Don't tesla have ways to just swap batteries out? Public transit companies could use that, and trucks.
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51331380]Don't tesla have ways to just swap batteries out? Public transit companies could use that, and trucks.[/QUOTE]
it was cool and ironmaney but totally impractical
[QUOTE=NO ONE;51331376]Who cares about the rare long trips some people take. Think about public transit and trucks. That's where range will matter the absolute most. If We can't keep downtime for recharging down to a minimum for trucks and so on, that is a problem. Some logistics can't change too much, time is sometimes very much of the essence.
More interesting info on high mileage Teslas, and the fact that their drivetrains pre 2014 are iffy:
[url=http://jalopnik.com/heres-how-a-tesla-taxi-held-up-after-100-000-miles-1785360286]Tesla Taxi[/url]
[url=http://gas2.org/2015/05/04/worlds-highest-mileage-tesla-model-s-hits-120000-miles-still-going-strong/]Heavy commuter, also about 1.4 years old[/url][/QUOTE]
I will agree with that; Tthe big money-maker for hydrogen is trucks, buses and long-distance freight trains. Batteries have no hope of competing there. On top of that, regular and predictable use which limits boil off makes cryogenic hydrogen viable.
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51331380]Don't tesla have ways to just swap batteries out? Public transit companies could use that, and trucks.[/QUOTE]
Telsa squeezes batteries into every little space in the vehicle to cut down on the space taken up. Swapping them out isn't really feasible.
[QUOTE=download;51331940]I will agree with that; Tthe big money-maker for hydrogen is trucks, buses and long-distance freight trains. Batteries have no hope of competing there. On top of that, regular and predictable use which limits boil off makes cryogenic hydrogen viable.
Telsa squeezes batteries into every little space in the vehicle to cut down on the space taken up. Swapping them out isn't really feasible.[/QUOTE]
It's literally a single pack along the bottom of the vehicle. It's designed for easyish removal but there wasn't much demand for it in the trails they did with owners. So they never bothered rolling it out or working the kinks out.
[editline]9th November 2016[/editline]
Tesla should have a semi out in the next few years. Wait and see how that performs.
[QUOTE=Morgen;51332427]It's literally a single pack along the bottom of the vehicle. It's designed for easyish removal but there wasn't much demand for it in the trails they did with owners. So they never bothered rolling it out or working the kinks out.
[editline]9th November 2016[/editline]
Tesla should have a semi out in the next few years. Wait and see how that performs.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty certain that's the chassis that holds the batteries. That doesn't seem easy to switch out.
[QUOTE=download;51332475]I'm pretty certain that's the chassis that holds the batteries. That doesn't seem easy to switch out.[/QUOTE]
It's not fixed to the chassis.
[Thumb]http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/2014-08-19-19.10.42-1280.jpg[/thumb]
[video]https://youtu.be/HlaQuKk9bFg[/video]
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